BBEG needs spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

BBEG needs spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi
12-22-06, 01:36 PM WARNING! Long post.

So I'm a relatively new DM and I just want some advice on this villain I'm preparing. Please note that my players won't be facing him for quite some time (level 14 baddie, level 1 players). So I've plenty of time to get a feel for building this guy. Besides, the concept (including background) have got me hooked. I need to stat him up to move on. I just want some advice.

Currently: Spellthief 4, Eye of Xanathar 10. I've employed a variant, reducing sneak attack slightly (to a total of 3d6) so as to progress some spellthief abilities. So he can steal up to 7th level spells and casts as a 14th level spellthief (caster level 7). He's taken Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar to get a beholderkin familiar that can deliver touch spells as rays.

So are there any suggestions for touch spells that would be great as ranged attacks? Touch of Idiocy comes to mind. Note that he can cast 4 1st, 4 2nd, 4 3rd, and 1 4th level spells.

And here's the current strategy:

Prep: buff with stoneskin, displacement, haste, etc. Cast Touch of Idiocy and have familiar hold it. Engage in banter, using slight of hand to disguise the casting of Crushing Despair (and cast).

Round 1: familiar fires touch of idiocy, fire charm person at melee character (likely a barbarian variant [whirling frenzy] lacking will save bonus). Convince him that he can't let his friends kill one another (now that BBEG is a friend). Possibly use Hold Monster instead.

Also activate my magical armor: +4 leather armor. 3/day for 10 rounds grants +4 AC (deflection), fire resist 15, and 1d4 fire damage to anyone attacking with natural attacks or melee weapons.

Round 2: attack caster with hold person, poison, or belker claws (I could eye ray this one, right?). Possibly use Nyber's Gentle Reminder instead. If warrior made save, Tasha's Hideous Laughter.

Round 3: By now the caster (potentially a druid) and the warrior should be out of commission. If the party mechanic has not changed by this point, only the spellthief is left. Full attack with haste using the +1 keen blurstrike rapier +15 1d6 15-20 +4d6, +14 1d6, +9 1d6. On the first attack, the foe is flatfooted thanks to blurstrike. Sneak attack. Use Arcane Strike as well (1st level spell). Possibly cast Wraithstrike.

* +1 Keen Blurstrike Rapier worth a +4 weapon. Should Enfeebling or Nervewrack be employed as well? Either would activate on a critical hit (15-20 threat range). One deals 1d6 +2 STR damage, the other limits movement, requires a concentration check to cast, and imposes a -2 penalty to AC, attack, damage, and reflex. I think all would be too much (+6 equivalence)

NOTE: Round 3 is also my response to anyone getting too close.

So, is this how I should be fighting? Any suggestions? Are there certain spells I should take? Is this going to slaughter a party of 3 characters, druid, barbarian (which I've helped optimize) and spellthief DMPC?

For reference, I've never dealt with mages with 3rd or higher level spells yet. I have however been reading about the game for a year and a half. [I think] I tend to learn more than the average person from this method (I don't need experience to learn).

Would it help if I put up all the stats (and background?) for this guy? Thank you oh boards.

EDIT: Add Backlash to the list of spells to try. It has a range of touch, so my familiar can use its eye ray on it. If the affected caster casts an attack spell and fails (SR, save, or failed concentration check), it automatically rebounds on the caster. No save. I so want to see that happen on phantasmal killer. This works especially well on my BBEG, who has several ways of forcing concentration checks.
Gnarl
12-22-06, 05:51 PM If your players characters are only first level, then you have another 13 levels to learn as a DM :D. You might be able to digest a huge amount of information in a very short time (and I'm sure you do), the hardest part of being a DM is to outsmart your players while still giving them a chance to survive.

While we're at it, be careful with character wealth too. For instance, your NPC has a lot more wealth than the suggested wealth for an NPC its level.

Back to the topic.

To start, you forgot the druid's animal companion.

In my experience, a single opponent isn't much of a challenge at those levels, especially one that relies so heavily on sneak attack (who are you flanking with?) and has a low fortitude save. Most people on these boards agree with me on this one.

You're assuming everything will go right and that you have initiative (including with your familiar) and that the players won't have any means of thwarting your plans. What happens if your familiar dies before he has a chance to act (probable)? Or your NPC gets transformed into a frog on round 1?

I can't see how you can possible make this fight a challenging one without cheating, putting way too much gear on your NPC, or giving him stats way too high (this should increase CR by the way).

By the way, in what book is the Eye of Xanathar?
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi
12-22-06, 07:37 PM Eye of Xanathar is from the website, under the Prestige Classes articles. Get a few eye rays (charm, poison, inflict, hold monster) and may, as a standard action, make a sneak attack, ignoring other prerequisites. Also note that with the feat Telling Blow a critical hit is a sneak attack. And with a keen rapier, that's 25% of the time (that I threaten). And blurstrike means the first attack of every round they're flat-footed. Sneak attack!

By the way, if use a regular sneak attack and then score a critical hit, would Telling Blow add sneak attack damage (effectively doubling it)?

Well, I figured he's one of the highest ranking members of a prominent thieve's guild. He should have some extra cash. And the class says he can have a certain suite of armor enchanted at a 20% discount. I'd presume I could convince guild wizards to enchant my rapier for cheap as well (10% off, maybe?).

Ah yes. Animal companion. How could I forget the wolf? Well, they won't be totally screwed over if I do charm the barbarian.

To improve the encounter:

Battle possibly won't happen. They'll get XP if they avoid it. Lord Xanatos, this character, is a noble of Waterdeep. He joined the guild because his family is now broke, and he's trying to hide that fact from high society. He curses his father for supporting so many foolish crusades. The PC's will have the opportunity to learn that most of his family's wealth was not spent on crusades, but rather was stolen by the Xanthar guild. Which Lord Xanatos now works for. If they learn this and convince him it's the truth, they've now turned him into an ally against the guild.

I guess I could throw in another character or two. A warlock could work nicely. As a spellthief, Lord Xanatos could steal his buffs, and then have him reuse them. Nothing like borrowing "self-only" stuff from a guy who can do it at will. Setting a swarm against them could also help.

Or I could throw in another Eye of Xanathar. They are known to work together sometimes. For evil-aligned thieves, there's a bond of comradery, at least among the eleven Eyes.
Gnarl
12-24-06, 05:54 AM The prestige class is nice, thanks for pointing it out.

Ok, back to the topic. You only have 3 characters so it's a lot harder to design adventures because your party will have weaknesses. In your party, it's healing and buffing. If you're giving your character suggested wealth per level, you probably don't want a fight with a challenge rating greater than the average level +2 (your players shouldn't be facing your guy before 12th level).

More equipment means a tougher fight. Make sure to adjust this in the CR. Concerning the equipment, it's fine to have some NPCs with more equipment so long as you maintain average wealth per character. A monster's CR assume average wealth per level, if your PCs have more, the game is a bit different and CR doesn't mean much anymore. It's just a bit harder to figure out whether a fight is decent or not.

By the way, if use a regular sneak attack and then score a critical hit, would Telling Blow add sneak attack damage (effectively doubling it)?

No sir. And this is something you can improved with your bad guy. You have your class feature to deal sneak attack, blurstrike and telling blow. Does he really need 3 ways to deal sneak attack :D?. That could free up a feat and some gear money.

Your NPC's primary weakness is its saving throws. With base saves around +4/+8/+7 he hill probably have over 50% chances of being turned into a frog on the first round. You'll have to introduce the fight with a couple of low CR encounters to lure the druid into using its baleful polymorph spell (and he should have it). I would suggest increasing those saves as high as possible (possibly taking the Great Fortitude feat).

Your primary strength as a spellthief is to steal others spells and use them against them; your spellthief spells are only a secondary ability. You need to find ways to deal sneak attack damage.

You found a good one with your perfect sneak attack class feature, that's one less to worry about. The Darkstalker feat will protect your spellthief from blindsense, blindsight, scent, tremorsense etc... With a little luck, you'll manage to sneak on the PCs gaining a standard action during the surprise round. If you take Improved Initiative and Quick Draw, you might even get to throw a volley of daggers at the druid before he gets a chance to act. You should be aiming at fortitude saving throw spells: stuff like baleful polymorph or drown. You'll get to use it on the spell-thief after that and you won't have to worry about your PCs using them against you.

The familiar is going to die very fast once your players realize your tactic is to shoot eye rays through him so you need to find something to do with your guy once they kill the little ball.

The only good low level ray spell I can think of is Ray of Dizziness (on the barbarian). You might want to get stuff like Orb of Fire.

I know this isn't what you asked for and I apologized for it, but I just can't figure out how a spellthief can be a threat to the PCs relying on a limited amount of low level rays.
runestar
12-24-06, 07:46 AM Also, the prc cannot be entered before lv5, since it requires 8 ranks in spot. So you will need at least 5 lvs in rogue or spellthief...:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 12-22-06, 01:36 PM	WARNING! Long post. So I'm a relatively new DM and I just want some advice on this villain I'm preparing. Please note that my players won't be facing him for quite some time (level 14 baddie, level 1 players). So I've plenty of time to get a feel for building this guy. Besides, the concept (including background) have got me hooked. I need to stat him up to move on. I just want some advice. Currently: Spellthief 4, Eye of Xanathar 10. I've employed a variant, reducing sneak attack slightly (to a total of 3d6) so as to progress some spellthief abilities. So he can steal up to 7th level spells and casts as a 14th level spellthief (caster level 7). He's taken Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar to get a beholderkin familiar that can deliver touch spells as rays. So are there any suggestions for touch spells that would be great as ranged attacks? Touch of Idiocy comes to mind. Note that he can cast 4 1st, 4 2nd, 4 3rd, and 1 4th level spells. And here's the current strategy: Prep: buff with stoneskin, displacement, haste, etc. Cast Touch of Idiocy and have familiar hold it. Engage in banter, using slight of hand to disguise the casting of Crushing Despair (and cast). Round 1: familiar fires touch of idiocy, fire charm person at melee character (likely a barbarian variant [whirling frenzy] lacking will save bonus). Convince him that he can't let his friends kill one another (now that BBEG is a friend). Possibly use Hold Monster instead. Also activate my magical armor: +4 leather armor. 3/day for 10 rounds grants +4 AC (deflection), fire resist 15, and 1d4 fire damage to anyone attacking with natural attacks or melee weapons. Round 2: attack caster with hold person, poison, or belker claws (I could eye ray this one, right?). Possibly use Nyber's Gentle Reminder instead. If warrior made save, Tasha's Hideous Laughter. Round 3: By now the caster (potentially a druid) and the warrior should be out of commission. If the party mechanic has not changed by this point, only the spellthief is left. Full attack with haste using the +1 keen blurstrike rapier +15 1d6 15-20 +4d6, +14 1d6, +9 1d6. On the first attack, the foe is flatfooted thanks to blurstrike. Sneak attack. Use Arcane Strike as well (1st level spell). Possibly cast Wraithstrike. * +1 Keen Blurstrike Rapier worth a +4 weapon. Should Enfeebling or Nervewrack be employed as well? Either would activate on a critical hit (15-20 threat range). One deals 1d6 +2 STR damage, the other limits movement, requires a concentration check to cast, and imposes a -2 penalty to AC, attack, damage, and reflex. I think all would be too much (+6 equivalence) NOTE: Round 3 is also my response to anyone getting too close. So, is this how I should be fighting? Any suggestions? Are there certain spells I should take? Is this going to slaughter a party of 3 characters, druid, barbarian (which I've helped optimize) and spellthief DMPC? For reference, I've never dealt with mages with 3rd or higher level spells yet. I have however been reading about the game for a year and a half. [I think] I tend to learn more than the average person from this method (I don't need experience to learn). Would it help if I put up all the stats (and background?) for this guy? Thank you oh boards. EDIT: Add Backlash to the list of spells to try. It has a range of touch, so my familiar can use its eye ray on it. If the affected caster casts an attack spell and fails (SR, save, or failed concentration check), it automatically rebounds on the caster. No save. I so want to see that happen on phantasmal killer. This works especially well on my BBEG, who has several ways of forcing concentration checks.
Gnarl 12-22-06, 05:51 PM	If your players characters are only first level, then you have another 13 levels to learn as a DM :D. You might be able to digest a huge amount of information in a very short time (and I'm sure you do), the hardest part of being a DM is to outsmart your players while still giving them a chance to survive. While we're at it, be careful with character wealth too. For instance, your NPC has a lot more wealth than the suggested wealth for an NPC its level. Back to the topic. To start, you forgot the druid's animal companion. In my experience, a single opponent isn't much of a challenge at those levels, especially one that relies so heavily on sneak attack (who are you flanking with?) and has a low fortitude save. Most people on these boards agree with me on this one. You're assuming everything will go right and that you have initiative (including with your familiar) and that the players won't have any means of thwarting your plans. What happens if your familiar dies before he has a chance to act (probable)? Or your NPC gets transformed into a frog on round 1? I can't see how you can possible make this fight a challenging one without cheating, putting way too much gear on your NPC, or giving him stats way too high (this should increase CR by the way). By the way, in what book is the Eye of Xanathar?
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 12-22-06, 07:37 PM	Eye of Xanathar is from the website, under the Prestige Classes articles. Get a few eye rays (charm, poison, inflict, hold monster) and may, as a standard action, make a sneak attack, ignoring other prerequisites. Also note that with the feat Telling Blow a critical hit is a sneak attack. And with a keen rapier, that's 25% of the time (that I threaten). And blurstrike means the first attack of every round they're flat-footed. Sneak attack! By the way, if use a regular sneak attack and then score a critical hit, would Telling Blow add sneak attack damage (effectively doubling it)? Well, I figured he's one of the highest ranking members of a prominent thieve's guild. He should have some extra cash. And the class says he can have a certain suite of armor enchanted at a 20% discount. I'd presume I could convince guild wizards to enchant my rapier for cheap as well (10% off, maybe?). Ah yes. Animal companion. How could I forget the wolf? Well, they won't be totally screwed over if I do charm the barbarian. To improve the encounter: Battle possibly won't happen. They'll get XP if they avoid it. Lord Xanatos, this character, is a noble of Waterdeep. He joined the guild because his family is now broke, and he's trying to hide that fact from high society. He curses his father for supporting so many foolish crusades. The PC's will have the opportunity to learn that most of his family's wealth was not spent on crusades, but rather was stolen by the Xanthar guild. Which Lord Xanatos now works for. If they learn this and convince him it's the truth, they've now turned him into an ally against the guild. I guess I could throw in another character or two. A warlock could work nicely. As a spellthief, Lord Xanatos could steal his buffs, and then have him reuse them. Nothing like borrowing "self-only" stuff from a guy who can do it at will. Setting a swarm against them could also help. Or I could throw in another Eye of Xanathar. They are known to work together sometimes. For evil-aligned thieves, there's a bond of comradery, at least among the eleven Eyes.
Gnarl 12-24-06, 05:54 AM	The prestige class is nice, thanks for pointing it out. Ok, back to the topic. You only have 3 characters so it's a lot harder to design adventures because your party will have weaknesses. In your party, it's healing and buffing. If you're giving your character suggested wealth per level, you probably don't want a fight with a challenge rating greater than the average level +2 (your players shouldn't be facing your guy before 12th level). More equipment means a tougher fight. Make sure to adjust this in the CR. Concerning the equipment, it's fine to have some NPCs with more equipment so long as you maintain average wealth per character. A monster's CR assume average wealth per level, if your PCs have more, the game is a bit different and CR doesn't mean much anymore. It's just a bit harder to figure out whether a fight is decent or not. By the way, if use a regular sneak attack and then score a critical hit, would Telling Blow add sneak attack damage (effectively doubling it)? No sir. And this is something you can improved with your bad guy. You have your class feature to deal sneak attack, blurstrike and telling blow. Does he really need 3 ways to deal sneak attack :D?. That could free up a feat and some gear money. Your NPC's primary weakness is its saving throws. With base saves around +4/+8/+7 he hill probably have over 50% chances of being turned into a frog on the first round. You'll have to introduce the fight with a couple of low CR encounters to lure the druid into using its baleful polymorph spell (and he should have it). I would suggest increasing those saves as high as possible (possibly taking the Great Fortitude feat). Your primary strength as a spellthief is to steal others spells and use them against them; your spellthief spells are only a secondary ability. You need to find ways to deal sneak attack damage. You found a good one with your perfect sneak attack class feature, that's one less to worry about. The Darkstalker feat will protect your spellthief from blindsense, blindsight, scent, tremorsense etc... With a little luck, you'll manage to sneak on the PCs gaining a standard action during the surprise round. If you take Improved Initiative and Quick Draw, you might even get to throw a volley of daggers at the druid before he gets a chance to act. You should be aiming at fortitude saving throw spells: stuff like baleful polymorph or drown. You'll get to use it on the spell-thief after that and you won't have to worry about your PCs using them against you. The familiar is going to die very fast once your players realize your tactic is to shoot eye rays through him so you need to find something to do with your guy once they kill the little ball. The only good low level ray spell I can think of is Ray of Dizziness (on the barbarian). You might want to get stuff like Orb of Fire. I know this isn't what you asked for and I apologized for it, but I just can't figure out how a spellthief can be a threat to the PCs relying on a limited amount of low level rays.
runestar 12-24-06, 07:46 AM	Also, the prc cannot be entered before lv5, since it requires 8 ranks in spot. So you will need at least 5 lvs in rogue or spellthief...:)