Post/Author/DateTime	Post
J_Riley 12-01-04, 08:31 PM	Besides improving your Fort saves and CON based skill checks, what is the point of this spell???? If it doesn't provide temporary HP, it seems quite useless to me, am I missing something? I fail to see the point of gaining HP only to lose that amount when the spell expires. So your 1st level fighter gains 2 extra hit points on top of his current 10, for a total of 12. He does battle with an Orc Barbarian, who wins initiative and wacks him with a greataxe for 11 damage. The fighter survives and smacks the Orc Barbarian with his greatsword and kills the Orc. Then, the Bear's Endurance spell expires and the Fighter falls unconscious and begins bleeding to death. Basically, Bear's Endurance might extend your life for it's duration, nothing more?
SpellMaster 12-01-04, 08:37 PM	You got it dead on. You know the distinction between temp HP and HP granted from a Con boost.
Heron_Marked_Blade 12-01-04, 08:40 PM	Yes, you do have to get healing before the spell expires. Consider it to be like the Barbarian's Rage ability. He gains extra hit points from his CON increase, but when his Rage ends he risks falling unconscious if he has too few hit points. And while you may not get a lot of hit points at 1st level, you get more as you level up. Cast on a 10th-level character, this spell provides 20hp. Be careful with any stat-raising spell that has a duration: when your Fox's Cunning wears off, you lose your extra intelligence; when your Cat's Grace wears off, you become as clumsy as you were previously; when your Bear's Endurance wears off, you become less tough and feel your wounds more.
Orion_II 12-01-04, 08:46 PM	Don't knock it; it can a) buy you a round or two to escape, b) to get healing, c) longer rages or d) revive your downed cleric so he can start healing and e) provide healable extra HP! Not bad for a 2nd level spell!
[GSV] Kirstar 12-02-04, 04:11 AM	also what to stop the wounds being bound so that when you do drop to <0 you dont bleed.
Rundor The Mighty 12-02-04, 06:31 AM	Just cast false life instead of this garbage spell.
RaspK FOG 12-02-04, 06:46 AM	What Bear's Endurance does is temporarily increase one of your ability scores - simple as that... Other uses include running/walking longer etc.
The_Ditto 12-02-04, 08:22 AM	Just cast false life instead of this garbage spell. Hmm, let's see: False Life = Temp hp ... period. Bear's Endurance = Real Hp, +Con-based skill checks (ie Concentration), +Fort Save. Even without looking any further, I'd say Bear's Endurance has got the edge .. oh yeah ... False Life = Personal Bear's Endurance = Touch .. Yeah, ok, False Life is better, there's no way Bear's Endurance could compete with that!! :surrender :ahem:
Keenath 12-02-04, 10:37 AM	Yeah, ok, False Life is better, there's no way Bear's Endurance could compete with that!! C'mon, don't feed the trolls... To answer the original query, yes, that's exactly right. You get some extra HPs that go away when it wears off. It's not that terrible, you have the HP for half an hour at least. I'm SURE you can find a potion by then.
Rundor The Mighty 12-02-04, 01:23 PM	Hmm, let's see: False Life = Temp hp ... period. Bear's Endurance = Real Hp, +Con-based skill checks (ie Concentration), +Fort Save. Even without looking any further, I'd say Bear's Endurance has got the edge .. oh yeah ... False Life = Personal Bear's Endurance = Touch .. Yeah, ok, False Life is better, there's no way Bear's Endurance could compete with that!! :surrender :ahem: False life = 1 hour per level duration, temp hp = doesn't deduct after its been expended or the duration runs out. That spanks temporary con boost. My mistake was remembering it as the one from tome and blood, where you could cast it on teammates. I play a lot of 3.0 and also when we play 3.5 due to my demands and ally tank players demand we usually convince dm to allow me to cast it on anybody. Anyways if you wan't to buff tank teammates up, use bulls strength, not garbage endurance. I really dislike the bears endurance spell.
Rundor The Mighty 12-02-04, 01:26 PM	C'mon, don't feed the trolls... Oh because I think bears endurance is a horrible waste of a spell that makes me a troll, YOU'RE the troll for calling someone you disagree with a troll. And besides only 13 year olds call people trolls or noobs. Please grow up.
Veomyr 12-02-04, 01:37 PM	And how many adults have Rundor the Mighty as a s/n? From what I can see, you got called a troll because of the tone of your response, not because of what you think of Bear's Endurance vs. False Life.
pyk 12-02-04, 02:00 PM	Hmm, let's see: False Life = Temp hp ... period. Bear's Endurance = Real Hp, +Con-based skill checks (ie Concentration), +Fort Save. Even without looking any further, I'd say Bear's Endurance has got the edge .. oh yeah ... False Life = Personal Bear's Endurance = Touch .. Yeah, ok, False Life is better, there's no way Bear's Endurance could compete with that!! :surrender :ahem: You forgot: False Life = Sor/Wiz 2 Bear's Endurance = Clr 2, Drd 2, Rgr 2, Sor/Wiz 2 False life = 1 hour per level duration, temp hp = doesn't deduct after its been expended or the duration runs out. That spanks temporary con boost. My mistake was remembering it as the one from tome and blood, where you could cast it on teammates. I play a lot of 3.0 and also when we play 3.5 due to my demands and ally tank players demand we usually convince dm to allow me to cast it on anybody. Anyways if you wan't to buff tank teammates up, use bulls strength, not garbage endurance. I really dislike the bears endurance spell. temp hp = gone after first one-two hits - no healing available con boosted hp = healed with potion/spell/etc.
The_Ditto 12-02-04, 02:16 PM	False life = 1 hour per level duration The only time the longer duration really counts, is when you still have them at the end of the duration ... .. problem is, if you still have them .. you didn't use them .. :rolleyes: Duration for temp hp is worth nothing ... why do you think they gave it a longer duration?? Because even with that 1 hr/lvl .. it's still not as good as the real thing .. Don't get me wrong .. when I play a wizard/sorc .. I take False Life as well .. why? Because they stack ontop of the Cleric in the party casting Bear's endurance on me as well!!! :rofl:
J_Riley 12-02-04, 06:59 PM	The only time the longer duration really counts, is when you still have them at the end of the duration ... .. problem is, if you still have them .. you didn't use them .. :rolleyes: Duration for temp hp is worth nothing ... why do you think they gave it a longer duration?? Because even with that 1 hr/lvl .. it's still not as good as the real thing .. Don't get me wrong .. when I play a wizard/sorc .. I take False Life as well .. why? Because they stack ontop of the Cleric in the party casting Bear's endurance on me as well!!! :rofl: Well, the best thing I like about False Life is you can cast it at least 3 HOURS before you enter combat and it's still effective. Bears endurance can be a max of 3 minutes before combat. False life offers similar benefits up to a point, HP wise, but gives you good buff flexibility in that you can cast another buff with the opening of combat, your False Life, cast'm and forget HP, already in place an hour ago, when you entered the dungeon/fortress/what have you...
Rundor The Mighty 12-02-04, 08:25 PM	And how many adults have Rundor the Mighty as a s/n? How many adults make fun of each others choice of names? Anyway besides the namecalling and childish name-bashing back to the point of bears endurance: People say it heals that extra hp over your regular max, but I don't see the point to this, the spell only lasts 1 min per level and if a cleric is casting healing on you in mid battle so you can go over your limit instead of bringing down some mighty smack he could be wasting his abilities. Remember that later on in levels casting this spell is useless since there are better ones, and in earlier levels spending a whole round just to cast this spell so that the possibility of healing back the hit points seems a waste. You usually have a first round choice of buffing the fighter with bulls str or endurance, and every fighter raises his hand when you say bulls str.
Keenath 12-03-04, 10:47 AM	Oh because I think bears endurance is a horrible waste of a spell that makes me a troll, YOU'RE the troll for calling someone you disagree with a troll. And besides only 13 year olds call people trolls or noobs. Please grow up. Huh. Well, okay. I withdraw the comment, then. I assumed you were playing at Sargedom and throwing out an obviously flawed opinion just to attract complaints. If you honestly believe that False Life is worth taking as a spell, then I appologize, and we can discuss the relative merits of temporary HP vs. Constitution. If this is just an attempt to extend a discussion while you laugh at all the people you fooled, then I stand by the earlier statement. And not only 13 year olds use the term 'troll', though I'd never mock somebody for being new to the system. There are trolls out there, and they should be identified as such. As for False Life: There are three major problems I have with the spell. One: You gain between 4 and 20 HP with a casting, but you have no idea how much you'll get. When you first get the spell, you'll be getting 4 to 13 HP, which very well may double your HP. Fine. But as you go up in level, it becomes less and less useful, while Bear's Endurance has a standardized 2 HP per level. I'd rather have a smaller gain that I can count on than one where I can end up getting essentially nothing. Two: As mentioned, I can't refill the temporary HPs. If I take a hit, they're just GONE. That might help against a heavy hitter who got close, but I'd rather be able to be healed up to full after a battle, giving me that same number of extra HPs several times over. As an added bonus, I get a Fort save boost, which is a weak point on a wizard. Three: Most devastating, I can only use False Life on MYSELF. I'd really like to increase other people's HP and play buff-wizard rather than selfishly increasing only my own power.
pyk 12-03-04, 11:06 AM	How many adults make fun of each others choice of names? Anyway besides the namecalling and childish name-bashing back to the point of bears endurance: People say it heals that extra hp over your regular max, but I don't see the point to this, the spell only lasts 1 min per level and if a cleric is casting healing on you in mid battle so you can go over your limit instead of bringing down some mighty smack he could be wasting his abilities. Remember that later on in levels casting this spell is useless since there are better ones, and in earlier levels spending a whole round just to cast this spell so that the possibility of healing back the hit points seems a waste. You usually have a first round choice of buffing the fighter with bulls str or endurance, and every fighter raises his hand when you say bulls str. Or the smart wizard who casts both mass bull's str. AND a quickened bear's end.
Kyy'Dakh 12-03-04, 11:26 AM	I personally think both spells are useful, though Bear's Endurance has recently become a moot point for my sorc: He's got a belt that gives him a +4 Con enhancement that doesn't stack with BE. He's going to pick up False Life when he switches spells out (and maybe after he buffs the belt to +6 with CWI), since he can cast it long before combat. A few more hp, even temp ones, as well as an additional round not spent on a buff can mean a lot. Now that I'm done extoling the (circumstantial) virtues of False Life: Enhancement bonus to Con adds to saving throws, which is very good if you're on the business end of a True Striked Disintegrate ray. When I faced one of those, all the tiny bonuses to my Fort save became very relevant... Speaking of which, I think I need to pump up my vest of resistance during the next bit of downtime I get. Oh, and if you have CWI and Bear's Endurance, I imagine you'll find the party will like you very much during downtime.
Rundor The Mighty 12-03-04, 01:19 PM	I personally think both spells are useful, though Bear's Endurance has recently become a moot point for my sorc: He's got a belt that gives him a +4 Con enhancement that doesn't stack with BE. That's another thing I forgot, most fighters in my groups value their hp so much that they get whatever bonus they can, usually before they increase their strength! So them having con enhancements is very very common. They love having massive fort saving throws also, one too many death spells has brought them to the end of their tether. If your a fighter and you think you can get by with your fort without paying any attention to it, you commonly end up disintegrated, happend to so many of them when they were new they pretty much go overboard on bosting their fort.
Keenath 12-03-04, 04:53 PM	Okay, I can see some uses for False Life. On the other hand, point #3 above is still pretty relevant -- your fighter friends can't benefit from False Life at all, so if they're wearing an item of +4 CON, the two spells are of basically equal use to everyone else: None.
cwslyclgh 12-03-04, 06:34 PM	How many adults make fun of each others choice of names? lots of them actually... in general when I see somebody making fun of another persons screen name it is an adult... I think that bears endurance and false life are both useful spells.
RaspK FOG 12-03-04, 08:31 PM	Well, they are different spells, trying to make different ends meet. I do feel that lowering the ability-boosting spells' duration from 1 hour/level to 1 minute/level was a bit too harsh, but there was this annoying trait of wizards who could get by for days after days with their spells...
Heron_Marked_Blade 12-03-04, 08:43 PM	Just because Bear's Endurance isn't the one spell you cast every chance you get doesn't mean it's a "garbage spell". You seem to play in a game where items of CON enhancement are freely available, which is all well and good -- but note the crafting prerequisite for those items. Yep, Bear's Endurance. The fact that you get a permanent item of Bear's Endurance as quickly as possible proves that the spell is indeed extremely useful. Making False Life permanent is as silly as it gets. Therefore the winner is....Bear's Endurance! :ayyyy!: :cheer: