Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Ditto 03-12-07, 11:16 AM	Hey there ... looking for opinions ... for starters, I am NOT shouting "HEY These are broken!" I am looking for feedback and discussion ... :tiphat: Yes, at the time of writing this, I do think they are a little .. uh .."strong" ... but that's what I want to discuss .. Beastland Ferocity: Level 1 Druid spell: duration 1 min/level +4 Str plus (essentially) diehard .. and (I think?) a + to will save? (I'm working off memory ... sorry) Enrage Animal: Level 1 Druid spell: duration concentration (no limit) + 1 round/level ... +4 Str +4 Con +2 Will save -2 AC Uh ... ok .. but dare we compare to: Bull's Strength: Level 2 Druid spell: duration 1 min/level +4 Str or. Bear's Endurance: Level 2 Druid spell: duration 1 min/level +4 Con So ... Enrage Animal gives Both Bull's Str and Bear's Endurance, but yeah, you get a -2 to AC :uh-huh: ... (we'll ignore the save bump for now ..) Is it just me, or is level 1 spell > a level 2 spell? Should these spells be level 2?? (or more?) How are they justified as a first level spell?? Beastland Ferocity is basically Bull's Strength ... oh, and by the way .. have Diehard tacked on as well .. (hey, why not?) :twitch: Again .. shouldn't this be a 2nd level spell?? (at least?) Or are they really trying to tell us that Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, etc all really really suck!? (or is this another way WotC is tipping the balance in favour of Druids? :angelhide ) I'll admit .. at the moment ... I think I'm going to make these two spells level 2 ... and try them out there ... In our last game, our level 4 druid's Wolf animal companion (who usually completely owns the enemies anyway) was a total monster with these two spells on ... and for only 2 first level slots, the druid could have done it again later the same day ... For the cost of 2 second level slots, however, it seems a little better ... :rolleyes: What is everyone's opinion on these guys? Anyone had problems with them? Anyone find them just fine? How do people find them compared to Bull's Strength and family? :confused:
The_Ditto 03-13-07, 08:24 AM	Wow .. seriously no opinions on this? So uh .. how do I take that? No comments means that everyone thinks it's balanced as is? or no comments means that everyone agrees with me that they are a bit strong? .. or no comments means nobody cares ... :D Hmm ... I suppose I'll try for 1 bump and see if anyone feels jumping in today ... :tiphat:
Ryusage 03-13-07, 09:19 AM	you want input? I'll give you input: are the players abusing the spell at all? If so, consider discussing with them about the possibility of bumping them up to second level slots. Weight the pros and cons, get it down on paper and make sure everyone understands your point of view. But also listen to the players if they disagree with your ruling. As the DM (I'm assuming you're the DM) you're completely authorized to change the rules as you see fit, but if all the players disagree with you, don't bother arguing it into the ground. Oh, and for the record, I wouldn't bump it higher than 2nd level.
Saytr 03-15-07, 02:52 AM	Looking at the spell it sounds like BF was supposed to have been a type of Rage (Compulsion, Spell description and fluff), but there is no drawbacks described. Maybe inadvertantly dropped?
The_Ditto 03-23-07, 04:54 PM	Hmm, actually, I think I read Beastland Ferocity incorrectly ... (darn skimming .. *sigh* ) It only gives the +4 str if you are at -1 to -9 hp ... (I missed that previously ... not sure if anyone else did ..) With that condition on it, I think it's ok as a 1st level spell .. My concern only consists now of Enrage Animal ... Giving +4 Str/Con ... compared to Bull's Str + Bear's End ... I'm thinking Enrage Animal would be "more balanced" as a 2nd level spell ... Opinions?
primemover003 03-23-07, 05:26 PM	Yeah the Bard in my group has tried using beastland ferocity on the fighter claiming it gave the effects of bull str, the die hard feat AND it last 10min/CL till I read it more closely. I was going out of my mind thinking how overpowered it sounded. You only gain the +4 STR while between -1 and -9.
Saytr 03-24-07, 04:10 AM	You're giving up your action so your animal can rage. Doesn't sound too powerful. I wouldn't do it. Wouldn't blow a spell to do it. Don't see a problem. +2 to hit, -2 to AC The extra HPoints aren't real, they dissapear in a few rounds. +2 damage per hit, fort save and will save. Big deal