Become a lich without be a spellcaster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Become a lich without be a spellcaster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Slad Chaos
08-05-07, 05:28 PM Hello, are there a mean to become a lich without be a spellcaster ?

If yes, which, please ?

Thanks for your future answer.
Osedox
08-05-07, 05:40 PM No
Highschool_Magic
08-05-07, 05:55 PM The Lich Formula for Non-Spell Casters:

Wish + very liberal DM=Non-Magical Lich
Anodai
08-05-07, 06:01 PM Necropolitan?
Dog_O_War
08-05-07, 06:04 PM Advance as a wizard or sorcerer, become a lich, learn Mordenkainens' disjunction, cast it on artifacts until you fail your will save and there you go, a non-spellcasting lich.
CantripN
08-05-07, 06:04 PM I suppose that if your soul were bound in some sort of gem, and you were willing, it would be possible with DM consent.
Nephlite
08-05-07, 06:06 PM Hello, are there a mean to become a lich without be a spellcaster ?

If yes, which, please ?

Thanks for your future answer.

Problem is even if you made a phyarchy, you don't meet prequisites for template: caster 11.
Arturius1
08-05-07, 06:14 PM Problem is even if you made a phyarchy, you don't meet prequisites for template: caster 11.

And to get as far as the phylactery, you need Craft Wondrous Item which requires a caster level of 3.
CantripN
08-05-07, 06:30 PM You could get Trap The Soul cast on you, have the caster of the ritual use Magic Jar on you and put your soul in the little box...
DrStalker
08-05-07, 11:44 PM A better question would be "What intelligent undead creatures could a non-spellcaster become?"

For me the concept of liches is tied intrinsically to the concept of magical ability.
Shaggy_Shaggs
08-05-07, 11:57 PM To be a lich without being a spellcaster you have to go in backward, sort of. There's no way to become a lich without being a spellcaster but you can have a lich that isn't one.

Do minimal advancement as a spellcaster and boost your caster level sufficiently with items/feats/etc, do the transformation, then rebuild out the caster levels.

Alternately start as a noncaster, multiclass into a caster, become a lich, use a persisted Shapechange (via items/feats of course, otherwise the spell slot is too high) to turn into something that's not undead, then get sufficiently level drained to lose all your spellcasting class levels, and intentionally blow the fort saves to prevent those from becoming permanent level loss. With the drain method you could theoretically have an ECL 5 lich but DMs would likely attempt to kill you (the player, not the character).
Malek2991
08-06-07, 10:47 AM I remember seeing something about a Psionic Lich, which requires an 11th lev Manifester and has the same abilities of a Lich.
Breetai
08-06-07, 10:59 AM Death Knight?
Osedox
08-06-07, 11:30 AM Death Knight?True, a combat type character can become a Death Knight, and a Sneaky type can become a Sepulchral Thief (its in cityscape, but dont by that book it was a steaming pile), but the only classes to my knowledge that can become liches are Cleric, Favored Soul, Druid (meets pre reqs but I dunno if they should be allowed), Warmage, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Sorcerer, Wizard, Bard, Adept, Duskblade, Wujen, Shugenja, and possibly Warlock. Although the last one is goofy, your Dm might allow it, or he might not.
Nephlite
08-06-07, 12:51 PM True, a combat type character can become a Death Knight, and a Sneaky type can become a Sepulchral Thief (its in cityscape, but dont by that book it was a steaming pile), but the only classes to my knowledge that can become liches are Cleric, Favored Soul, Druid (meets pre reqs but I dunno if they should be allowed), Warmage, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Sorcerer, Wizard, Bard, Adept, Duskblade, Wujen, Shugenja, and possibly Warlock. Although the last one is goofy, your Dm might allow it, or he might not.

Do'nt forget Paladin. Sure, he can't cast spells anymore because he is a Paladin but he does meet prereqs at level 14 with practiced spellcaster. He would have caster of 11. He'll need another caster to cragft his phyarchery thingy, but he can.
Rustmonster
08-06-07, 01:00 PM True, a combat type character can become a Death Knight, and a Sneaky type can become a Sepulchral Thief (its in cityscape, but dont by that book it was a steaming pile), but the only classes to my knowledge that can become liches are Cleric, Favored Soul, Druid (meets pre reqs but I dunno if they should be allowed), Warmage, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Sorcerer, Wizard, Bard, Adept, Duskblade, Wujen, Shugenja, and possibly Warlock. Although the last one is goofy, your Dm might allow it, or he might not.

Hehe, Bard Lich.
Millennium
08-06-07, 01:03 PM Not by RAW: a lich is, by definition, a spellcaster. However, there are similar undead forms you might be able to take by other means.
lord_xarallon
08-06-07, 01:53 PM I statted a ranger lich. It had six spells without counting bonus spells.
I hardly consider him a spellcaster.

"The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher." is what the MM says. I cant think a way around it
Nephlite
08-06-07, 02:02 PM I statted a ranger lich. It had six spells without counting bonus spells.
I hardly consider him a spellcaster.

"The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher." is what the MM says. I cant think a way around it

I know, the Ranger wouldn't be great but he could.
StruckingFuggle
08-06-07, 10:22 PM Necropolitan?

... is nothing at all like the lich beyond the basic "they give you the undead type".

Not by RAW: a lich is, by definition, a spellcaster. However, there are similar undead forms you might be able to take by other means.

Such as? What's similar to the Lich that is for nonspellcasters?
TheAnthroDM
08-06-07, 10:27 PM Yes, The Complete Guide To Liches(Swords and Sorcery, 3rd Party) has several variant of the Lich, one of which is created from a Warrior-type character.
Sarlax
08-07-07, 01:20 AM Yes, you can be a lich without being a spellcaster. Note the requirements: "The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher." Those requirements aren't connected - that is, you don't have to be capable of casting spells at caster level 11. It's possible to be 1)able to cast spells and 2)have a caster level of 11 without being an 11th-level spellcaster.

One route is through the Magical Training feat in the Player's Guide to Faerun. With it, you can cast 3 cantrips per day. Now you can cast spells. What you need now is a caster level of 11. You can get that by being a level 11 warlock, for instance, or by having a spell-like ability at CL 11.

You can also sneak in some of the way with Practiced Spellcaster from Complete Arcane, which allows you to increase your caster level for one class by +4 (but not higher than your HD), but it unfortunately doesn't stack. Still, you could be something like a wizard 7/fighter 4 and become a lich with this feat.

The other way is to be an evil outsider. With the variant lich in Libris Mortis, you qualify if you're an outsider, you're evil, you have 5 at-will spell-like abilities, and you have CL 11 (from somewhere). The easiest way is probably to be a lesser planetouched tiefling (LA 0) warlock. As a warlock, you can take Extra Invocation at level 6 and have 5 at will spell-like abilities. All you need now is to somehow get 5 more caster levels - unfortunately, Practiced Spellcaster won't help you here.

You can be an artificer. An artificer doesn't have spellcaster levels but can create any magic item and simulate its creation prerequisites with a Use Magic Device Check; he can make a check for being a spellcaster and for having a caster level of 11. In fact, because of his unique ability to create items 2 class levels sooner than anyone else, an artificer can become a lich at 9th level.

As others have noted, you can also get into the race without being a really good spellcaster. A Rogue 5/Assassin 7 (and PS) could become a lich, for instance.
Jaxgaret
08-07-07, 01:28 AM The other way is to be an evil outsider. With the variant lich in Libris Mortis, you qualify if you're an outsider, you're evil, you have 5 at-will spell-like abilities, and you have CL 11 (from somewhere). What you need now is a caster level of 11. You can get that by having a spell-like ability at CL 11.

Succubus Lich? :)

6 at will SLAs, CL12, check.
TheAnthroDM
08-07-07, 01:40 AM Succubus Lich? :)

6 at will SLAs, CL12, check.
That's Dis-turbing.
zeratulcraft
08-07-07, 01:41 AM Commonly called a Succulich.
Branto
08-07-07, 02:01 AM Necropolitan?

Would that be a skeleton who is chocolate, vanilla, AND strawberry flavored? :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Slad Chaos 08-05-07, 05:28 PM	Hello, are there a mean to become a lich without be a spellcaster ? If yes, which, please ? Thanks for your future answer.
Osedox 08-05-07, 05:40 PM	No
Highschool_Magic 08-05-07, 05:55 PM	The Lich Formula for Non-Spell Casters: Wish + very liberal DM=Non-Magical Lich
Anodai 08-05-07, 06:01 PM	Necropolitan?
Dog_O_War 08-05-07, 06:04 PM	Advance as a wizard or sorcerer, become a lich, learn Mordenkainens' disjunction, cast it on artifacts until you fail your will save and there you go, a non-spellcasting lich.
CantripN 08-05-07, 06:04 PM	I suppose that if your soul were bound in some sort of gem, and you were willing, it would be possible with DM consent.
Nephlite 08-05-07, 06:06 PM	Hello, are there a mean to become a lich without be a spellcaster ? If yes, which, please ? Thanks for your future answer. Problem is even if you made a phyarchy, you don't meet prequisites for template: caster 11.
Arturius1 08-05-07, 06:14 PM	Problem is even if you made a phyarchy, you don't meet prequisites for template: caster 11. And to get as far as the phylactery, you need Craft Wondrous Item which requires a caster level of 3.
CantripN 08-05-07, 06:30 PM	You could get Trap The Soul cast on you, have the caster of the ritual use Magic Jar on you and put your soul in the little box...
DrStalker 08-05-07, 11:44 PM	A better question would be "What intelligent undead creatures could a non-spellcaster become?" For me the concept of liches is tied intrinsically to the concept of magical ability.
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-05-07, 11:57 PM	To be a lich without being a spellcaster you have to go in backward, sort of. There's no way to become a lich without being a spellcaster but you can have a lich that isn't one. Do minimal advancement as a spellcaster and boost your caster level sufficiently with items/feats/etc, do the transformation, then rebuild out the caster levels. Alternately start as a noncaster, multiclass into a caster, become a lich, use a persisted Shapechange (via items/feats of course, otherwise the spell slot is too high) to turn into something that's not undead, then get sufficiently level drained to lose all your spellcasting class levels, and intentionally blow the fort saves to prevent those from becoming permanent level loss. With the drain method you could theoretically have an ECL 5 lich but DMs would likely attempt to kill you (the player, not the character).
Malek2991 08-06-07, 10:47 AM	I remember seeing something about a Psionic Lich, which requires an 11th lev Manifester and has the same abilities of a Lich.
Breetai 08-06-07, 10:59 AM	Death Knight?
Osedox 08-06-07, 11:30 AM	Death Knight?True, a combat type character can become a Death Knight, and a Sneaky type can become a Sepulchral Thief (its in cityscape, but dont by that book it was a steaming pile), but the only classes to my knowledge that can become liches are Cleric, Favored Soul, Druid (meets pre reqs but I dunno if they should be allowed), Warmage, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Sorcerer, Wizard, Bard, Adept, Duskblade, Wujen, Shugenja, and possibly Warlock. Although the last one is goofy, your Dm might allow it, or he might not.
Nephlite 08-06-07, 12:51 PM	True, a combat type character can become a Death Knight, and a Sneaky type can become a Sepulchral Thief (its in cityscape, but dont by that book it was a steaming pile), but the only classes to my knowledge that can become liches are Cleric, Favored Soul, Druid (meets pre reqs but I dunno if they should be allowed), Warmage, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Sorcerer, Wizard, Bard, Adept, Duskblade, Wujen, Shugenja, and possibly Warlock. Although the last one is goofy, your Dm might allow it, or he might not. Do'nt forget Paladin. Sure, he can't cast spells anymore because he is a Paladin but he does meet prereqs at level 14 with practiced spellcaster. He would have caster of 11. He'll need another caster to cragft his phyarchery thingy, but he can.
Rustmonster 08-06-07, 01:00 PM	True, a combat type character can become a Death Knight, and a Sneaky type can become a Sepulchral Thief (its in cityscape, but dont by that book it was a steaming pile), but the only classes to my knowledge that can become liches are Cleric, Favored Soul, Druid (meets pre reqs but I dunno if they should be allowed), Warmage, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Sorcerer, Wizard, Bard, Adept, Duskblade, Wujen, Shugenja, and possibly Warlock. Although the last one is goofy, your Dm might allow it, or he might not. Hehe, Bard Lich.
Millennium 08-06-07, 01:03 PM	Not by RAW: a lich is, by definition, a spellcaster. However, there are similar undead forms you might be able to take by other means.
lord_xarallon 08-06-07, 01:53 PM	I statted a ranger lich. It had six spells without counting bonus spells. I hardly consider him a spellcaster. "The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher." is what the MM says. I cant think a way around it
Nephlite 08-06-07, 02:02 PM	I statted a ranger lich. It had six spells without counting bonus spells. I hardly consider him a spellcaster. "The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher." is what the MM says. I cant think a way around it I know, the Ranger wouldn't be great but he could.
StruckingFuggle 08-06-07, 10:22 PM	Necropolitan? ... is nothing at all like the lich beyond the basic "they give you the undead type". Not by RAW: a lich is, by definition, a spellcaster. However, there are similar undead forms you might be able to take by other means. Such as? What's similar to the Lich that is for nonspellcasters?
TheAnthroDM 08-06-07, 10:27 PM	Yes, The Complete Guide To Liches(Swords and Sorcery, 3rd Party) has several variant of the Lich, one of which is created from a Warrior-type character.
Sarlax 08-07-07, 01:20 AM	Yes, you can be a lich without being a spellcaster. Note the requirements: "The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher." Those requirements aren't connected - that is, you don't have to be capable of casting spells at caster level 11. It's possible to be 1)able to cast spells and 2)have a caster level of 11 without being an 11th-level spellcaster. One route is through the Magical Training feat in the Player's Guide to Faerun. With it, you can cast 3 cantrips per day. Now you can cast spells. What you need now is a caster level of 11. You can get that by being a level 11 warlock, for instance, or by having a spell-like ability at CL 11. You can also sneak in some of the way with Practiced Spellcaster from Complete Arcane, which allows you to increase your caster level for one class by +4 (but not higher than your HD), but it unfortunately doesn't stack. Still, you could be something like a wizard 7/fighter 4 and become a lich with this feat. The other way is to be an evil outsider. With the variant lich in Libris Mortis, you qualify if you're an outsider, you're evil, you have 5 at-will spell-like abilities, and you have CL 11 (from somewhere). The easiest way is probably to be a lesser planetouched tiefling (LA 0) warlock. As a warlock, you can take Extra Invocation at level 6 and have 5 at will spell-like abilities. All you need now is to somehow get 5 more caster levels - unfortunately, Practiced Spellcaster won't help you here. You can be an artificer. An artificer doesn't have spellcaster levels but can create any magic item and simulate its creation prerequisites with a Use Magic Device Check; he can make a check for being a spellcaster and for having a caster level of 11. In fact, because of his unique ability to create items 2 class levels sooner than anyone else, an artificer can become a lich at 9th level. As others have noted, you can also get into the race without being a really good spellcaster. A Rogue 5/Assassin 7 (and PS) could become a lich, for instance.
Jaxgaret 08-07-07, 01:28 AM	The other way is to be an evil outsider. With the variant lich in Libris Mortis, you qualify if you're an outsider, you're evil, you have 5 at-will spell-like abilities, and you have CL 11 (from somewhere). What you need now is a caster level of 11. You can get that by having a spell-like ability at CL 11. Succubus Lich? :) 6 at will SLAs, CL12, check.
TheAnthroDM 08-07-07, 01:40 AM	Succubus Lich? :) 6 at will SLAs, CL12, check. That's Dis-turbing.
zeratulcraft 08-07-07, 01:41 AM	Commonly called a Succulich.
Branto 08-07-07, 02:01 AM	Necropolitan? Would that be a skeleton who is chocolate, vanilla, AND strawberry flavored? :P