Bell of Devout Conjuring -- comments on pricing? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bell of Devout Conjuring -- comments on pricing? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Malben
04-30-04, 04:16 PM Below is a magical item I'm thinking of using as gear for an NPC. I'd appreciate a second (or third, or fourth) opinion on the pricing of this item; I have treated it as a command-word activation item, limited to 1 use per day. I'm not sure if the restrictions on its summoning capability warrant a reduction in price, though. I can see reason to listen to arguments for both sides, since from the perspective of a wizard or sorcerer with access to the same spell, this item impedes functionality. On the other hand, from the perspective of a cleric it's almost the same as casting the spell for oneself.

I am also a little uncertain as to how I want to have it handle a TN user. The two really logical possibilities, as I see them, lie in a choice between having the bell fail to function at all (just as, unless you're dealing with a few exceptional deities, it's impossible to have a TN cleric), or having the thing work without restriction of any sort. Thoughts on this?

Bell of Devout Conjuring:
This adamantine bell is equipped with a thick, intricately-braided handle of red silk, and is elaborately engraved with the words for "service" in Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Draconic, Ignan, Infernal, Sylvan, and Terran. When the bell is held aloft by its handle and struck with the silver mallet that accompanies it, and "service" is called for in any of the languages listed above, it duplicates the summon monster IV spell as if cast by a cleric of the same alignment as its possessor (and thus, it is subject to the same limitations as the cleric spell in terms of what it can summon -- a chaotic good user cannot use it to summon an evil or lawful creature). The bell bestows no special power to communicate with the summoned creature; doing so requires that the user must have a language in common with it. The bell functions once a day, and cannot be activated in an area of magical silence. Activation requires a full round.
Rumors suggest that other versions of this bell, both more and less powerful, have been created by the clergy of various faiths.
Caster Level: 7th; Prerequisites: Create Wondrous Item, summon monster IV, creator must be a cleric; Market Price: 10080gp.
Malben
05-02-04, 03:11 PM *bumps* *tries not to look too hopeful*
Kyuketsukiouji
05-02-04, 03:16 PM I wouldn't discount it. The limitation is not really that much of a problem, unless the user is a sorcerer who doesn't know that particular monster summon spell.
Heron_Marked_Blade
05-02-04, 05:45 PM I dunno, I think the 1/day limitation is good. The creature summoned will only remain for 7 rounds. 10kgp is a fair price.

Besides which, I like your item description. Very nice.
Malben
05-02-04, 06:20 PM Thanks for the comments, both of you.

Kyuketsukiouji, I can see where you're coming from in terms of your dismissal of a pricing reduction based on class. What do you think about the matter of a TN user, though? Since this item allows you to summon an extraplanar creature under the restriction that said creature cannot be aligned opposite your own, how would you adjudicate the spell for someone who has no opposed alignment?

As I noted in my original post, this normally isn't an issue for a cleric who uses summon monster spells because most clerics in standard DnD rules cannot be TN. This changes a bit if you're using the Forgotten Realms setting, since a handful of deities in that setting do allow TN clerics, but even then it's a bit of a corner case. So with this in mind, what're your thoughts about handling a TN user?

Heron_Marked_Blade:
Thanks for your comment as well. I'm glad you like the item description. The 1/day limitation is there . . . primarily because I wanted a version of this item which was affordable for a level 10-ish NPC. It'd be a simple matter to make it 2/day and increase the price to 20,000gp instead of 10,000gp. Hence my notation in the description of the item, to the effect that other versions of the item exist. The only thing that I really would NOT do is allow a version that offers unlimited uses per day. I'd just keep scaling it up by single-use increments, so that a 5/day version of the item listed above costs about 50,000, and a 6/day version would run 60,000.

I'm interested, though, in your judgment as to the TN user quandary I've found myself in. As I noted for Kyuketsukiouji's benefit, I'm a little concerned because if I allow TN users to use this item at all, a TN user gets something like a 33% greater alignment range to call on compared to a LN, CN, NG, or NE user, and something on the order of 55% more compared to the LG, CG, LE, and CE user. If I looked at the actual summoning lists, the disparity would shift a bit, I think, but just going by the options available in terms of what alignment of creature a given user can summon, TN users would lead the pack. Do you think that this concern is a real problem for the pricing and balance of the item? And if so, what would you do to fix it?
Heron_Marked_Blade
05-02-04, 06:31 PM Originally posted by Malben
Do you think that this concern is a real problem for the pricing and balance of the item? And if so, what would you do to fix it? I don't think it's a problem. That's more an issue of the way the Summoning spells function than the way your item is constructed. A TN spellcaster simply has a wider range when casting a Summon spell than a LG/CE spellcaster does. Them's the breaks, and that's what this item emulates.

In fact, the flavor of this item seems to fit TN characters better than it would a strongly aligned character, which would then be reflected accurately in the TN character's wider choice of creatures to summon. Although that may just be my predilection for B- (and C-) rated kung fu movies tinting my perception of the item. :D All those Eastern philosophies promoting inner peace and the absence of passion and whatnot. This bell would go well in a monastery. :teach:
Kyuketsukiouji
05-02-04, 06:31 PM Malben:

I'd let them summon whatever they want, just as if they'd cast the spell themselves.
Malben
05-03-04, 12:24 AM Thank you both for your commentary on this item. My concerns are much lessened by your assessment of its pricing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Malben 04-30-04, 04:16 PM	Below is a magical item I'm thinking of using as gear for an NPC. I'd appreciate a second (or third, or fourth) opinion on the pricing of this item; I have treated it as a command-word activation item, limited to 1 use per day. I'm not sure if the restrictions on its summoning capability warrant a reduction in price, though. I can see reason to listen to arguments for both sides, since from the perspective of a wizard or sorcerer with access to the same spell, this item impedes functionality. On the other hand, from the perspective of a cleric it's almost the same as casting the spell for oneself. I am also a little uncertain as to how I want to have it handle a TN user. The two really logical possibilities, as I see them, lie in a choice between having the bell fail to function at all (just as, unless you're dealing with a few exceptional deities, it's impossible to have a TN cleric), or having the thing work without restriction of any sort. Thoughts on this? Bell of Devout Conjuring: This adamantine bell is equipped with a thick, intricately-braided handle of red silk, and is elaborately engraved with the words for "service" in Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Draconic, Ignan, Infernal, Sylvan, and Terran. When the bell is held aloft by its handle and struck with the silver mallet that accompanies it, and "service" is called for in any of the languages listed above, it duplicates the summon monster IV spell as if cast by a cleric of the same alignment as its possessor (and thus, it is subject to the same limitations as the cleric spell in terms of what it can summon -- a chaotic good user cannot use it to summon an evil or lawful creature). The bell bestows no special power to communicate with the summoned creature; doing so requires that the user must have a language in common with it. The bell functions once a day, and cannot be activated in an area of magical silence. Activation requires a full round. Rumors suggest that other versions of this bell, both more and less powerful, have been created by the clergy of various faiths. Caster Level: 7th; Prerequisites: Create Wondrous Item, summon monster IV, creator must be a cleric; Market Price: 10080gp.
Malben 05-02-04, 03:11 PM	bumps tries not to look too hopeful
Kyuketsukiouji 05-02-04, 03:16 PM	I wouldn't discount it. The limitation is not really that much of a problem, unless the user is a sorcerer who doesn't know that particular monster summon spell.
Heron_Marked_Blade 05-02-04, 05:45 PM	I dunno, I think the 1/day limitation is good. The creature summoned will only remain for 7 rounds. 10kgp is a fair price. Besides which, I like your item description. Very nice.
Malben 05-02-04, 06:20 PM	Thanks for the comments, both of you. Kyuketsukiouji, I can see where you're coming from in terms of your dismissal of a pricing reduction based on class. What do you think about the matter of a TN user, though? Since this item allows you to summon an extraplanar creature under the restriction that said creature cannot be aligned opposite your own, how would you adjudicate the spell for someone who has no opposed alignment? As I noted in my original post, this normally isn't an issue for a cleric who uses summon monster spells because most clerics in standard DnD rules cannot be TN. This changes a bit if you're using the Forgotten Realms setting, since a handful of deities in that setting do allow TN clerics, but even then it's a bit of a corner case. So with this in mind, what're your thoughts about handling a TN user? Heron_Marked_Blade: Thanks for your comment as well. I'm glad you like the item description. The 1/day limitation is there . . . primarily because I wanted a version of this item which was affordable for a level 10-ish NPC. It'd be a simple matter to make it 2/day and increase the price to 20,000gp instead of 10,000gp. Hence my notation in the description of the item, to the effect that other versions of the item exist. The only thing that I really would NOT do is allow a version that offers unlimited uses per day. I'd just keep scaling it up by single-use increments, so that a 5/day version of the item listed above costs about 50,000, and a 6/day version would run 60,000. I'm interested, though, in your judgment as to the TN user quandary I've found myself in. As I noted for Kyuketsukiouji's benefit, I'm a little concerned because if I allow TN users to use this item at all, a TN user gets something like a 33% greater alignment range to call on compared to a LN, CN, NG, or NE user, and something on the order of 55% more compared to the LG, CG, LE, and CE user. If I looked at the actual summoning lists, the disparity would shift a bit, I think, but just going by the options available in terms of what alignment of creature a given user can summon, TN users would lead the pack. Do you think that this concern is a real problem for the pricing and balance of the item? And if so, what would you do to fix it?
Heron_Marked_Blade 05-02-04, 06:31 PM	Originally posted by Malben Do you think that this concern is a real problem for the pricing and balance of the item? And if so, what would you do to fix it? I don't think it's a problem. That's more an issue of the way the Summoning spells function than the way your item is constructed. A TN spellcaster simply has a wider range when casting a Summon spell than a LG/CE spellcaster does. Them's the breaks, and that's what this item emulates. In fact, the flavor of this item seems to fit TN characters better than it would a strongly aligned character, which would then be reflected accurately in the TN character's wider choice of creatures to summon. Although that may just be my predilection for B- (and C-) rated kung fu movies tinting my perception of the item. :D All those Eastern philosophies promoting inner peace and the absence of passion and whatnot. This bell would go well in a monastery. :teach:
Kyuketsukiouji 05-02-04, 06:31 PM	Malben: I'd let them summon whatever they want, just as if they'd cast the spell themselves.
Malben 05-03-04, 12:24 AM	Thank you both for your commentary on this item. My concerns are much lessened by your assessment of its pricing.