Belt of Mage Armor: Price? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Belt of Mage Armor: Price? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Omaha_beach
01-10-06, 05:06 PM Hello fellow roleplayers

Which is the correct way to calculate the price of a belt of mage armor, where the belt is use-activated and produces the spell: Mage armor with a caster level of 1

Is it
A) Spell Level x Caster Level x 2000 gpx4 for unlimited usage (1x1x2000x2)= 8,000 gp

Or is it
B) Bonus squared x 1,000 (4x4x1000)=16,000 gp

We have a discussion if wether it is a spell effect or it is an Effect, and how we do the pricing. This belt will work like casting the spell mage armor, and is not automatically "on"
Yours truly
Christian
Denmark
lord_blackfang
01-10-06, 05:11 PM Look up Braces of Armor.
cwslyclgh
01-10-06, 05:36 PM there is no "correct way" to calculate it because the the crafting guidelines are just that guidelines and not hard rules.

looking at similar items (such as bracers of armor) I would probably go with your option B. and perhaps even add +50% because it belts are not normaly associated with protective functions (see body slot affinities on page 288).
tarkin
01-10-06, 05:39 PM A) The pricing method of spell level x caster level times x gold is the acknowledge worst method, you never use it if there is any better one available, even just comparing to other magic items. Use pricing method #2 for a set value of 16,000 gp.

B) Items never cast spells (unless they are intelligent). It takes a mind to cast a spell. Items always have magic effects that are similar to spells. Read the descriptions in the DMG they very carefully always avoid saying 'casts', instead use words like "similar to", "like", "as per".

What you actually meant to say was "This is a command activated item, not a continously on item".

With regards to that, for a fair price, 16,000 gp will let you put the belt on, then once activated, it grants you the effect of a +4 Force Armor. If you remove the item, the effect should be deactivated, just as if you commanded it to deactivate.

If you want an item that can create and maintain multiple Mage Armor effects, it would be a lot higher price.
malignor
01-10-06, 05:42 PM Option A allows you to make the "use-activated" item which, upon use, allows you to have Mage Armor (+4) lasting an hour.

Option B is exactly the same as bracers of armor. But that's a constant effect. No use required.

The real problem with option A is... how do you "use" a belt? Normally "use-activated" stuff is for things like musical instruments (horn of fog, horn of valhalla, pipes of the sewers, lyre of building, etc.).

Only way I can think of it is having an actual quasi-magical device as part of the belt buckle. Takes a standard action to use the device, which makes armor on ya like the batmobile from the Batman/Batman Returns movies w/ Michael Keaton... add a requirement of "minor image" in creation to create the armor look. Otherwise it's invisible, and therefore you can't easily tell if the belt's effect ran out or not.

The disadvatage about making it level 1 use activation is the duration... you can't use it while you're sleeping or if you're bound or anything like that. Thus the limited duration means you're vulnerable alot of the time... and I'd make you take intelligence checks to remember to reactivate it while travelling... so sometimes you'll get ambushed without it active.
Grand Theft Otto
01-10-06, 05:50 PM By the rules, option A, likely with a 50% increase since the slot doesnt match up well. So 12000gp, which is a nice compromise. I personally consider bracers of armor a bit overpriced, so splitting the difference works nicely. Since the duration is 1 hour, you'd need to continuosly refresh it before the hour passed. Also, it could be dispelled, unlike bracers of armor. Thus justifying the cheaper price.
Grand Theft Otto
01-10-06, 05:52 PM Option A allows you to make the "use-activated" item which, upon use, allows you to have Mage Armor (+4) lasting an hour.

Option B is exactly the same as bracers of armor. But that's a constant effect. No use required.

The real problem with option A is... how do you "use" a belt? Normally "use-activated" stuff is for things like musical instruments (horn of fog, horn of valhalla, pipes of the sewers, lyre of building, etc.).

Only way I can think of it is having an actual quasi-magical device as part of the belt buckle. Takes a standard action to use the device, which makes armor on ya like the batmobile from the Batman/Batman Returns movies w/ Michael Keaton.

The same way you "use" boots of levitation I would assume.
malignor
01-10-06, 06:33 PM Boots of levitation are a command-word activated item. As are many wondrous items

Use activated items A-D:
- Bag of Holding (use by reaching inside)
- Chime of Opening (use by striking/jingling it)
- Deck of Illusions (use by drawing a card and tossing it to the ground)
- Drums of Panic (use by striking)

Use Activated: This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.

Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character’s possession (on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case.

Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use activation is not an action at all.

Use activation doesn’t mean that if you use an item, you automatically know what it can do. You must know (or at least guess) what the item can do and then use the item in order to activate it, unless the benefit of the item comes automatically, such from drinking a potion or swinging a sword... so in this case, since a belt is not an item you "use" like a horn or a power drill or a view-finder, but an Item you wear, then it's a standard action to operate.

The other option, as stated is that you have to take the belt off and put it on again every time you want to use it. That would be a full-round action.
RavenDrake
01-10-06, 06:51 PM Malignor, you seem to be somewhat underinformed as to what 'Use Activated' actually means... though you quoted from the SRD, you didn't really read it. Just because a Belt of Dwarvenkind dosen't have a button to push dosen't mean it isn't a use activated item.. you can use it, for example, to keep your pants up. Or use it to hold your Scabbard of Keen Edges. Honestly, as long as it's on your person in a manner condusive to being a "belt", then it's active, and thus is activated by useing it... hence, one would conclude it was a "Use Activated Item".... Just like many boots, circlets, capes, all of the stastic enhancing items(Gloves of Dexterity, Headband of Intellect, etc).

To put it another way, there are only 4 categories of magic items: Spell Completion, Spell trigger, Command Word, and Use Activated. If it's not Spell Completion(Scroll), and it's not Spell Trigger (Wands and Staves), and it's not Command Word... then that only leaves Use Activated.

Thus, if the Op's belt of Force Armour is considered Use Activated and always on, it should be priced as Bracers of Armour(and, since the belt slot is reserved for "Physical Improvement" it's debatable that it might even get an Unusual Body Slot price modifier).

If you want it priced a Command Word item, It's going to be much more expensive than the 'Spell level Squared times x' scenario, simplly because it's such a useful effect... and it would cost double that enhanced price in my campaign if it's useable on other people while you're wearing it yourself.

But, as for pricing, that's just my opinion.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Omaha_beach 01-10-06, 05:06 PM	Hello fellow roleplayers Which is the correct way to calculate the price of a belt of mage armor, where the belt is use-activated and produces the spell: Mage armor with a caster level of 1 Is it A) Spell Level x Caster Level x 2000 gpx4 for unlimited usage (1x1x2000x2)= 8,000 gp Or is it B) Bonus squared x 1,000 (4x4x1000)=16,000 gp We have a discussion if wether it is a spell effect or it is an Effect, and how we do the pricing. This belt will work like casting the spell mage armor, and is not automatically "on" Yours truly Christian Denmark
lord_blackfang 01-10-06, 05:11 PM	Look up Braces of Armor.
cwslyclgh 01-10-06, 05:36 PM	there is no "correct way" to calculate it because the the crafting guidelines are just that guidelines and not hard rules. looking at similar items (such as bracers of armor) I would probably go with your option B. and perhaps even add +50% because it belts are not normaly associated with protective functions (see body slot affinities on page 288).
tarkin 01-10-06, 05:39 PM	A) The pricing method of spell level x caster level times x gold is the acknowledge worst method, you never use it if there is any better one available, even just comparing to other magic items. Use pricing method #2 for a set value of 16,000 gp. B) Items never cast spells (unless they are intelligent). It takes a mind to cast a spell. Items always have magic effects that are similar to spells. Read the descriptions in the DMG they very carefully always avoid saying 'casts', instead use words like "similar to", "like", "as per". What you actually meant to say was "This is a command activated item, not a continously on item". With regards to that, for a fair price, 16,000 gp will let you put the belt on, then once activated, it grants you the effect of a +4 Force Armor. If you remove the item, the effect should be deactivated, just as if you commanded it to deactivate. If you want an item that can create and maintain multiple Mage Armor effects, it would be a lot higher price.
malignor 01-10-06, 05:42 PM	Option A allows you to make the "use-activated" item which, upon use, allows you to have Mage Armor (+4) lasting an hour. Option B is exactly the same as bracers of armor. But that's a constant effect. No use required. The real problem with option A is... how do you "use" a belt? Normally "use-activated" stuff is for things like musical instruments (horn of fog, horn of valhalla, pipes of the sewers, lyre of building, etc.). Only way I can think of it is having an actual quasi-magical device as part of the belt buckle. Takes a standard action to use the device, which makes armor on ya like the batmobile from the Batman/Batman Returns movies w/ Michael Keaton... add a requirement of "minor image" in creation to create the armor look. Otherwise it's invisible, and therefore you can't easily tell if the belt's effect ran out or not. The disadvatage about making it level 1 use activation is the duration... you can't use it while you're sleeping or if you're bound or anything like that. Thus the limited duration means you're vulnerable alot of the time... and I'd make you take intelligence checks to remember to reactivate it while travelling... so sometimes you'll get ambushed without it active.
Grand Theft Otto 01-10-06, 05:50 PM	By the rules, option A, likely with a 50% increase since the slot doesnt match up well. So 12000gp, which is a nice compromise. I personally consider bracers of armor a bit overpriced, so splitting the difference works nicely. Since the duration is 1 hour, you'd need to continuosly refresh it before the hour passed. Also, it could be dispelled, unlike bracers of armor. Thus justifying the cheaper price.
Grand Theft Otto 01-10-06, 05:52 PM	Option A allows you to make the "use-activated" item which, upon use, allows you to have Mage Armor (+4) lasting an hour. Option B is exactly the same as bracers of armor. But that's a constant effect. No use required. The real problem with option A is... how do you "use" a belt? Normally "use-activated" stuff is for things like musical instruments (horn of fog, horn of valhalla, pipes of the sewers, lyre of building, etc.). Only way I can think of it is having an actual quasi-magical device as part of the belt buckle. Takes a standard action to use the device, which makes armor on ya like the batmobile from the Batman/Batman Returns movies w/ Michael Keaton. The same way you "use" boots of levitation I would assume.
malignor 01-10-06, 06:33 PM	Boots of levitation are a command-word activated item. As are many wondrous items Use activated items A-D: - Bag of Holding (use by reaching inside) - Chime of Opening (use by striking/jingling it) - Deck of Illusions (use by drawing a card and tossing it to the ground) - Drums of Panic (use by striking) Use Activated: This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory. Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character’s possession (on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case. Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use activation is not an action at all. Use activation doesn’t mean that if you use an item, you automatically know what it can do. You must know (or at least guess) what the item can do and then use the item in order to activate it, unless the benefit of the item comes automatically, such from drinking a potion or swinging a sword... so in this case, since a belt is not an item you "use" like a horn or a power drill or a view-finder, but an Item you wear, then it's a standard action to operate. The other option, as stated is that you have to take the belt off and put it on again every time you want to use it. That would be a full-round action.
RavenDrake 01-10-06, 06:51 PM	Malignor, you seem to be somewhat underinformed as to what 'Use Activated' actually means... though you quoted from the SRD, you didn't really read it. Just because a Belt of Dwarvenkind dosen't have a button to push dosen't mean it isn't a use activated item.. you can use it, for example, to keep your pants up. Or use it to hold your Scabbard of Keen Edges. Honestly, as long as it's on your person in a manner condusive to being a "belt", then it's active, and thus is activated by useing it... hence, one would conclude it was a "Use Activated Item".... Just like many boots, circlets, capes, all of the stastic enhancing items(Gloves of Dexterity, Headband of Intellect, etc). To put it another way, there are only 4 categories of magic items: Spell Completion, Spell trigger, Command Word, and Use Activated. If it's not Spell Completion(Scroll), and it's not Spell Trigger (Wands and Staves), and it's not Command Word... then that only leaves Use Activated. Thus, if the Op's belt of Force Armour is considered Use Activated and always on, it should be priced as Bracers of Armour(and, since the belt slot is reserved for "Physical Improvement" it's debatable that it might even get an Unusual Body Slot price modifier). If you want it priced a Command Word item, It's going to be much more expensive than the 'Spell level Squared times x' scenario, simplly because it's such a useful effect... and it would cost double that enhanced price in my campaign if it's useable on other people while you're wearing it yourself. But, as for pricing, that's just my opinion.