Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rara Avis 09-11-04, 07:09 PM	1-What is the spell Benign Transpostion and where can I find it? 2-And also, is it possible to mimic spells up to 9th level using the Major image spell/particularly in conjunction with the gnome shadowcrafter ability (this allows it to be partially real)? I was under the impression that you could only mimic spells 1 lvl lower than the illusion spell, meaning that Major Image (a 3rd lvl spell) can only mimic 2nd lvl spells and below. Can any one clarify and help me out?
Bloodtide_the_Red 09-12-04, 01:20 AM	...............-And also, is it possible to mimic spells up to 9th level using the Major image spell/particularly in conjunction with the gnome shadowcrafter ability (this allows it to be partially real)? ..................... ----Sure, you can mimic any spell or spell like effect with Major Image. Spell level does not matter. As for gnome shadow caster? Where is that from? ..............I was under the impression that you could only mimic spells 1 lvl lower than the illusion spell, meaning that Major Image (a 3rd lvl spell) can only mimic 2nd lvl spells and below. Can any one clarify and help me out?............... ---No. There is no 'level limit' for Major Image. BT
Rara Avis 09-12-04, 01:30 AM	Shadowcraft Mage is from the new Races of Stone book that has just been released. I understand Major Image's description, it's the shadowcraft mage's Shadow illusion which I do not get. Am I allow to cast 9th level spells with this ability or can I only mimic 2nd level or lower (since Major Image is 3rd). Thanks.
DM Zoc 09-12-04, 02:45 AM	I believe that the first spell is in the Munchkin's Handbook. It's overpowered.
abjurer 09-12-04, 06:22 AM	2-And also, is it possible to mimic spells up to 9th level using the Major image spell/particularly in conjunction with the gnome shadowcrafter ability (this allows it to be partially real)? I was under the impression that you could only mimic spells 1 lvl lower than the illusion spell, meaning that Major Image (a 3rd lvl spell) can only mimic 2nd lvl spells and below. Can any one clarify and help me out? the shadow crafter ability lets you "shadow"-mimick only spells one level lower than the illusion spell you are using. There is a specific list of what illusion spells gain this power and this ability applies only to them. Note also the reality% depends upon the level of the illusion spell used.
Razorblade Smile 09-12-04, 09:16 AM	I believe that the first spell is in the Munchkin's Handbook. It's overpowered. I believe you mean the Miniature's Handbook :rolleyes:, and I fail to see how it's overpowered. It requires two willing subjects and has a limited range. Yes, it can be used creatively but I don't see it as overpowered in the slightest. It can't be used to jaunt between mirror images or any other illusions as I've seen mentioned in a few places, however, since those aren't willing creatures. Emphasis placed on the last word. Baleful Transposition has quite a few possibilities for abuse, but it allows both a saving throw and spell resistance in addition to a "connected" requirement. So I don't see the harm.
tarkin 09-12-04, 10:08 AM	It is over-powered. Compare Balefull with Translocation Trick, a spell from Forgotten Realms. Translocation Trick does basically the same thing but is two levels higher. The power increase in Balefull shows that they also screwed up Benign. IT should be at least one level higher. Munchkin handbook is by definition over-powered as compared to the other books. Reda the intro. It says the book is for less roll -playing, "quicker combat". Quicker = more deadly = more powerfull
Razorblade Smile 09-12-04, 10:45 AM	1) That, or Translocation Trick is too high a level. 2) It is, again, from the Miniatures Handbook not the Munchkin's Handbook. (And do you honestly think that's a clever or even remotely humorous play on words? Sad.) 3) No, "quicker" does not mean "more deadly," and "more deadly" certainly doesn't mean "overpowered." Or do you consider sickles to be "overpowered" too? Afterall, they do 1d6 damage whereas a dagger (another simple light weapon) does 1d4 damage, thus allowing you to take down an opponent "quicker" which, apparently, means its "overpowered." We won't even mention a heavy mace or spear! :mymy: Not that it matters because the MiniHB's intro never says anything of the sort. Of course I'm totally baffled why, while ranting about how overpowered it alledgedly is, you seem to frown on a "less roll-playing" angle as being a bad thing. I'm going to assume that's a typo and you're actually trying to admonish the book for being "less role-playing" oriented instead. Which itself is a total crock. I mean, just watch out for that Healer class! Eek!
Bloodtide_the_Red 09-12-04, 11:15 AM	Ah, always helps to know where to look and even a page number,,lots of books to look through you know. ......-And also, is it possible to mimic spells up to 9th level using the Major image spell/particularly in conjunction with the gnome shadowcrafter ability (this allows it to be partially real)? .............. --No. Major Image(3rd level) can only minic up to 2nd level spells with this ability. BT
Gnarl 09-12-04, 04:04 PM	2-And also, is it possible to mimic spells up to 9th level using the Major image spell/particularly in conjunction with the gnome shadowcrafter ability (this allows it to be partially real)? Well yes of course you can mimic spells of up to 9th level with major image, but since it's only a figment, you can't do a single point of damage with it, even on a failed saving throw (Player's Handbook page 173). Now if you infuse such as spell with shadows as with the shadowcraft mage from races of stone, the spell can be used to deal damage and critters summoned do have real hit points just the way shadow evocation deals damage and shadow conjurations have hit points. Now, we wouldn't want a 3rd level spell to deal the same damage a meteor swarm does now do we ? That's why you can only mimic sorcerer/wizard spells of the evocation school, conjuration (summoning), conjuration (creation) of up to one level lower, though you still can use your regular figment version of the major image spell to make a fake harmless meteor swarm.
DM Zoc 09-12-04, 05:47 PM	My opinion on Benign Transposition is not that it's overly useful, but that it's illogical to have such a difficult spell at so low a level. Compare it to Teleport. Benign is like a two-way Teleport, even if the range is limited. It's still moving matter from one place to another, and we have core rules saying that moving things from one place to another without passing through the space in between is level 5, or maybe level 4 if you don't move it very far. It's the same problem I have with War Hulk. It's not that +2 Strength at every level combined with no BAB progression is overpowered, it's that I can't imagine anyone or anything gaining 20 natural points of Strength over the course of its existence. That's not to say that there isn't overpowered stuff in there as well (belt buckle). The crushing blow for me is that the Mini Handbook is the only source of my favorite class of all time, the Healer, which means that I might end up buying it at some point.
Aborath 09-17-04, 02:38 PM	My opinion on Benign Transposition is not that it's overly useful, but that it's illogical to have such a difficult spell at so low a level. Compare it to Teleport. Benign is like a two-way Teleport, even if the range is limited. It's still moving matter from one place to another, and we have core rules saying that moving things from one place to another without passing through the space in between is level 5, or maybe level 4 if you don't move it very far. It's the same problem I have with War Hulk. It's not that +2 Strength at every level combined with no BAB progression is overpowered, it's that I can't imagine anyone or anything gaining 20 natural points of Strength over the course of its existence. That's not to say that there isn't overpowered stuff in there as well (belt buckle). The crushing blow for me is that the Mini Handbook is the only source of my favorite class of all time, the Healer, which means that I might end up buying it at some point. The Miniatures Handbook is a bit twinkish. Virtually every caster played in my group since the book came out has taken the Sudden Maximize Feat: broken (imho), due to it's ease of acquisition. I have only recently discovered Benign Transposition, which is also sickeningly good for its level. I mean, come on, before BT what was the best movement spell at first? Spider Climb? pfft.
tarkin 09-17-04, 03:40 PM	3) No, "quicker" does not mean "more deadly," and "more deadly" certainly doesn't mean "overpowered." Prove it. I can prove the other way, using simple logic. And your own argument proves 1/2 my point. Quicker DOES mean more deadly, or do you NOT think that 1d6 is more deadly than 1d4?? We have a game with a bunch of rules for combat. A new book comes out with rules for "faster combat". How can they make combat faster? A) They can add new rules/abilities that do relatively more damage (Like 1d6 scythe instead of 1d4.), in a single action. B) They can remove rules from the game that allow higher defensive things. But the MH book does NOT remove/prevent otherwise allowed things in the standard games. As we are talking about adding stuff to the game, not 're-writing it' it, the question becomes: Are the new things that they added, which we admit are MORE powerfull than the stuff that existed previously, too powerfull. Which is the heart of the matter. Even you admit the stuff in it is more powerfull than the core rules. The thing is NONE of the other WoTC books go out of there way to make things MORE powerfull. They may occasionally do it, but not on purpose for an entire splat book. So the MH is the ONLY book that intentionally makes thing more powerfull. than core. But people are greedy when it comes to power, so even in those other books WoTC tended to make things a little bit more powerfull than core. In particular, they made some DEFENSIVE things that are stronger than standard. In order to account for these things, MH had to be not only stronger than standard attacks, but strong enough to also counter the stronger defensivs. So they did not just make a 1d6 weapon that is more deadly than a wimpy 1d4 dagger Instead they had to make things more deadly than the most powerfull of the already existing things defenses and weapons. and THAT is by definition "Over-powered". When you make something more deadly than the most powerfull other things that exist, it is "over the power" of the other stuff, or "Over-Powered" for short hand. ------------------ I never stated that less role-playing = bad. That was YOUR prejudice showing. I implied that less role-playing is a more Munchkin like game. And that is accurate. There is nothing wrong with playing a Munchkin Game. They can be very fun to play, for say 2 hours. But they silly, and I have found that the more adult, experienced players prefer not to play like that most of the time. Younger, less experienced players enjoy playing like that all the time .... That is how the name "Munchkin" became associated with that style of play - older players saw the younger ones doing it all the time. ------------------ P.S. And the MiniHB's Introduction DOES state what I said. Read it again. I may have paraphrased it, but the words mean what I stated. Christ, it is less than a page. Only a blind man would miss it.
wamagni 09-17-04, 03:54 PM	Are you kidding!! The scythe is the most broken weapon EVER! It costs close to NOTHING! It does a full 1D6 DAMAGE!! And it's SIMPLE, so almost anyone can use it! And to top it off, It does LETHAL damage, plus you can make TRIP ATTACKS with it! The sickle is so incredibly broken, i fail to see why you were using it in your argument...jeez...