Best 4th level spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best 4th level spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
odhen
10-12-04, 02:12 PM Just got to level 7 in a campaign I'm playing in, and I'm trying to figure out which 2 spells to take for 4th level. Anyone have any suggestions?

I was thinking Polymorph and Phantasmal Killer...does anyone have any other suggestions?

My character is a Transmuter, so one has to be transmutation.
Prohibited schools: Conjuration and Evocation (So, yeah, no access to some pretty powerful spells)

As far as other books, Complete Divine is the only other book with spells I could use, I think. I don't have a copy of it, but a friend does, and I remember there were a few spells that were sor/wiz as well.
Lord Lorac Silvanos
10-12-04, 02:44 PM For the second spell (asuming you stick with :turkey: ---> :88E: aka Polymorph) you could also consider:

Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
Stoneskin
Greater Invisibility

But the choice of course depends on what typically is thrown at you... these were rather combat oriented. If the campaign is more oriented towards role playing it is a different story.
odhen
10-12-04, 02:56 PM It's a good mix of both, really.

And actually, all of the ones you mentioned I've been contemplating for the second choice, as well :P

I may end up going with Greater Invisibility...
ShinQuickMan
10-12-04, 02:58 PM Well, since you have conjuration as a prohibited school, Evard's Black Tentacles is out of the question. Since you are a transmuter, Polymorph is a must (be sure to make the character with the highest charisma a Cloaker!).

However, I would advise against Phantasmal Killer, since it allows for 2 saves (Fortitude and Will, usually the saves that could really change the potency for a spell against certain creatures), is mind-Effecting (which means undead and such are immune to it), and is single target. I would reccomend either Confusion (since it effects multiple creatures and is strong against things with low Will, such as a Giant) or Charm Monster (to conquer over one single big and strong but weak willed creature instead of confusing it). You could also pick a spell that requires a fortitude save (sorry, I can't tell you of any now since I don't have any sources at this time) if you've seen that you're DM has been throwing things with high Will but low Fortitude at you.

I don't know of any spells in Complete Divine, so I can't help you there, but I hope I've helped.
Pentar
10-12-04, 03:17 PM I'm going to have to throw in that Phantasmal Killer is not a good choice. In fact, none of the Phantasmal lines all the way up to 9th level are at all impressive to me. There are far more effective ways to kill critters than that spell.

One spell not yet mentioned is Enervation. Ranged-touch attack, no save, 1d4 negative levels. It's a great way to debuff an opponent for a Polymorph attack, since each negative level also bestows a -1 to all saves.

At higher levels, Enervation is a great spell to combine with metamagic feats like Empower or Twin.

It's unfortunate you can't take Conjuration. Solid Fog is fantastic.
Arindor
10-12-04, 03:18 PM Don't forget enervation!
carnivore
10-12-04, 03:26 PM why not Shadow conjuration :D
Lord Lorac Silvanos
10-12-04, 03:27 PM The only 4th level wizard/sorcerer spell in Complete Divine is an evil necromancy spell that renders its humanoid target helpless for 1 round/level unless a fortitude save is made (there are also some after effects).

Pentar: Enervation is not a bad choice either, but you cannot use the 4th level spell polymorph for a "polymorph attack" since it has as its target "Willing living creature touched".
smrtgmp
10-12-04, 04:34 PM I also recomend enervation. If you fight a lot of outsiders or enemy mages, dimensional anchor can be invaluable, but that is more campaign dependent.

Its a shame you dont have access to conjuration, since that has all the spells that arent subject to SR. Evard's Black Tentacles in particular is fantastic. Oh well :)

Of the other spells mentioned above, I would take improved invisibility if you dont go with evervation. It combines very well with fly, which, as a transmuter, I assume you have.
tarkin
10-12-04, 04:45 PM 4th level has a lot of good spells.

Excluding Conjuration and Evocation, I like the following:
Enervation
Greater Invisibility (Combine with non-detection for a killer defense)
Stoneskin.
Rainbow Pattern (No verbal component, great to combine with Greater Invisibility).
amoeba
10-12-04, 04:55 PM don't forget dimension door.

But at character level 7, you will probably get more bang for your buck from enervation.
Lord Lorac Silvanos
10-12-04, 05:07 PM amoeba:
odhen:
My character is a Transmuter, so one has to be transmutation.
Prohibited schools: Conjuration and Evocation (So, yeah, no access to some pretty powerful spells)
MoonWizard
10-12-04, 05:08 PM If I were 7th level, I would not choose Dimension Door, Dimensional Anchor, nor Greater Invisibilty. They're good spells but at that level there are others that I prefer:

I know you can't but in the general sense:
Solid Fog - I think it's the best 4th level arcane spell. It's the definitive battlefield control spell: no save for all enemies to have a max of 5 ft move/rd

7th level Transmuter?
Polymorph is one of the best buff spells you can give a Ftr - make him into an Annis Hag for a 25 STR and +10 Nat. Armor. At 7th level, this Ftr will easilly cut down monsters of appropriate CR.

A Maximized Ray of Enfeeblement will (with a successful touch attack) drain 9 points of STR from anything...no save.
amoeba
10-12-04, 05:16 PM amoeba:

sorry forgot dimension door was conjuration. Still used to 3.0 where all teleportation spells were transmutation.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
odhen 10-12-04, 02:12 PM	Just got to level 7 in a campaign I'm playing in, and I'm trying to figure out which 2 spells to take for 4th level. Anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking Polymorph and Phantasmal Killer...does anyone have any other suggestions? My character is a Transmuter, so one has to be transmutation. Prohibited schools: Conjuration and Evocation (So, yeah, no access to some pretty powerful spells) As far as other books, Complete Divine is the only other book with spells I could use, I think. I don't have a copy of it, but a friend does, and I remember there were a few spells that were sor/wiz as well.
Lord Lorac Silvanos 10-12-04, 02:44 PM	For the second spell (asuming you stick with :turkey: ---> :88E: aka Polymorph) you could also consider: Lesser Globe of Invulnerability Stoneskin Greater Invisibility But the choice of course depends on what typically is thrown at you... these were rather combat oriented. If the campaign is more oriented towards role playing it is a different story.
odhen 10-12-04, 02:56 PM	It's a good mix of both, really. And actually, all of the ones you mentioned I've been contemplating for the second choice, as well :P I may end up going with Greater Invisibility...
ShinQuickMan 10-12-04, 02:58 PM	Well, since you have conjuration as a prohibited school, Evard's Black Tentacles is out of the question. Since you are a transmuter, Polymorph is a must (be sure to make the character with the highest charisma a Cloaker!). However, I would advise against Phantasmal Killer, since it allows for 2 saves (Fortitude and Will, usually the saves that could really change the potency for a spell against certain creatures), is mind-Effecting (which means undead and such are immune to it), and is single target. I would reccomend either Confusion (since it effects multiple creatures and is strong against things with low Will, such as a Giant) or Charm Monster (to conquer over one single big and strong but weak willed creature instead of confusing it). You could also pick a spell that requires a fortitude save (sorry, I can't tell you of any now since I don't have any sources at this time) if you've seen that you're DM has been throwing things with high Will but low Fortitude at you. I don't know of any spells in Complete Divine, so I can't help you there, but I hope I've helped.
Pentar 10-12-04, 03:17 PM	I'm going to have to throw in that Phantasmal Killer is not a good choice. In fact, none of the Phantasmal lines all the way up to 9th level are at all impressive to me. There are far more effective ways to kill critters than that spell. One spell not yet mentioned is Enervation. Ranged-touch attack, no save, 1d4 negative levels. It's a great way to debuff an opponent for a Polymorph attack, since each negative level also bestows a -1 to all saves. At higher levels, Enervation is a great spell to combine with metamagic feats like Empower or Twin. It's unfortunate you can't take Conjuration. Solid Fog is fantastic.
Arindor 10-12-04, 03:18 PM	Don't forget enervation!
carnivore 10-12-04, 03:26 PM	why not Shadow conjuration :D
Lord Lorac Silvanos 10-12-04, 03:27 PM	The only 4th level wizard/sorcerer spell in Complete Divine is an evil necromancy spell that renders its humanoid target helpless for 1 round/level unless a fortitude save is made (there are also some after effects). Pentar: Enervation is not a bad choice either, but you cannot use the 4th level spell polymorph for a "polymorph attack" since it has as its target "Willing living creature touched".
smrtgmp 10-12-04, 04:34 PM	I also recomend enervation. If you fight a lot of outsiders or enemy mages, dimensional anchor can be invaluable, but that is more campaign dependent. Its a shame you dont have access to conjuration, since that has all the spells that arent subject to SR. Evard's Black Tentacles in particular is fantastic. Oh well :) Of the other spells mentioned above, I would take improved invisibility if you dont go with evervation. It combines very well with fly, which, as a transmuter, I assume you have.
tarkin 10-12-04, 04:45 PM	4th level has a lot of good spells. Excluding Conjuration and Evocation, I like the following: Enervation Greater Invisibility (Combine with non-detection for a killer defense) Stoneskin. Rainbow Pattern (No verbal component, great to combine with Greater Invisibility).
amoeba 10-12-04, 04:55 PM	don't forget dimension door. But at character level 7, you will probably get more bang for your buck from enervation.
Lord Lorac Silvanos 10-12-04, 05:07 PM	amoeba: odhen: My character is a Transmuter, so one has to be transmutation. Prohibited schools: Conjuration and Evocation (So, yeah, no access to some pretty powerful spells)
MoonWizard 10-12-04, 05:08 PM	If I were 7th level, I would not choose Dimension Door, Dimensional Anchor, nor Greater Invisibilty. They're good spells but at that level there are others that I prefer: I know you can't but in the general sense: Solid Fog - I think it's the best 4th level arcane spell. It's the definitive battlefield control spell: no save for all enemies to have a max of 5 ft move/rd 7th level Transmuter? Polymorph is one of the best buff spells you can give a Ftr - make him into an Annis Hag for a 25 STR and +10 Nat. Armor. At 7th level, this Ftr will easilly cut down monsters of appropriate CR. A Maximized Ray of Enfeeblement will (with a successful touch attack) drain 9 points of STR from anything...no save.
amoeba 10-12-04, 05:16 PM	amoeba: sorry forgot dimension door was conjuration. Still used to 3.0 where all teleportation spells were transmutation.