Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bave 06-01-05, 06:47 PM	What are some of the best spells out there?
Lord shadow35 06-01-05, 07:01 PM	ELEMENTAL IMMUNITY, reverse gravity, greater arcane sight. And not in that order. but those are just cute spell i thought of off the top of my head. Spell turning is overrated not bad, but overrated.
stealth_monkey 06-01-05, 07:12 PM	Force-cage, Finger of death, Powerword:blind
Lord shadow35 06-01-05, 07:35 PM	Force cage has a material component that is very expensive, but a good spell. Finger of death is an insta kill not bad by reads "Target" so it is spell turned and so is power word blind. :D
Daedalus2701 06-01-05, 10:41 PM	I'd have to say limited wish, for its versatility. Assuming you didn't specialize it's the heightened 6th level or lower wizard spell you need RIGHT NOW. The same thing applies for 5th level or lower spells from any other class (including the entire paladin and ranger spell lists). Sure, 300 xp is expensive for a death ward, but much better than you'd be after a level drain or a death effect. In addition it can remove almost any unwanted effect, including feeblemind and insanity. With components it can even bring someone back to life by emulating raise dead. I probably wouldn't take it as my first 7th level spell as a sorceror, but being able to do whatever the situation calls for makes it a great spell to have memorized.
Princeoflowlight 06-01-05, 11:09 PM	Gotta say Greater Teleport. Nothing quite changes the dynamic of your game like the party being able to instantly go anywhere, even if you've never been there.
PrinceAzar 06-01-05, 11:21 PM	Delayed Blast Fireball, by far
The Simbul 06-02-05, 12:52 AM	Limited Wish is the best 7th level Sor/Wiz spell, and the XP cost is negligible when facing an actual 13+ EL encounter. The -7 to the targets next save function alone is worth knowing/casting the spell in the first place, since it can almost guarantee the target will fail against your next save or die spell. Combine that with a Rod of Metamagic (Quicken Spell) or using it during the suprise round (for a Sorcerer), and you can kill most enemies before they have a chance to act. In addition, it is by far the best spell to be found in the spells known selection of a 14th+ level Sorcerer.
Merestil Haye 06-02-05, 07:44 AM	I'd agree about Limited Wish. Certainly a sorcerer who has 2 or more 7th level spells should always have it available, because this spell enables you to cast sorcerer spells you do not know. As an aside, in an adventure I played, we survived because the wizard Limited Wished for a Disintegrate. The Disintegrate he had prepared had no effect on the creature attacking us. The Wished for one destroyed it. Sometimes you just gotta have those 7th level spells.
Seeker95 06-02-05, 09:25 AM	I would place limited wish as the most powerful 7th level spell, but not the best. Its xp and material component costs offset much of its "best" qualities, but are certainly worth the power. I would place shadow conjuration, greater as the best 7th level spell only because its versatility doesn't come with additional costs beyond those normally associated with the spells it is duplicating. Played wisely, this spell really increases the versatility of a daily preparation. For a sorcerer, it is almost a "must have" spell.
PlaidViking 06-02-05, 09:39 AM	Insanity, Power Word Blind, Force Cage, Reverse Gravity
Merestil Haye 06-02-05, 10:21 AM	Seeker, Limited Wish has no material component requirement for the base spell. If you are dupicating the function of an existing spell with a costly material component - in excess of 1,000gp - then you have to provide that component. But you would have to provide the component anyway. The xp cost is the only true additional cost, and in many cases Limited Wishing for the spell could actually save you expensive components. Not that that is in itself a reason to take it, unless you have plentiful sources of xp.
Lord shadow35 06-02-05, 11:58 AM	looseing xp 4x a day is costly thats why i believe it is a bad choice. :D
tarkin 06-02-05, 12:09 PM	My favorite 7th level spells include: Defensive: Project Image Offensive: Extended Acid Fog Maximized/Repeated Explosive Cascade Utilitarian: Plane Shift Teleport Greater Limited Wish Combat wise, Project Image is simply one of the best defensive spells around. Combine it with Non-detection and you rock. Use Vampiric Touch (or other touch spells) with it.
Seeker95 06-02-05, 12:55 PM	Seeker, Limited Wish has no material component requirement for the base spell.You are objecting to a limited aspect of my post, ignoring the rest of it in context. Limited wish ALWAYS costs 300xp. That is a high cost. Limited wish costs more xp if the duplicated spell costs more xp. Limited wish adds in material components of 1000gp or more. Given only the first line, it is still an expensive proposition. Adding in the second and third requirements further increases the cost of limited wish in terms of its versatility.
Merestil Haye 06-02-05, 01:03 PM	My problem was the context. ThisIts xp and material component costs offset much of its "best" qualities, but are certainly worth the power.made it appear (at least to me) as if you were claiming the Limited Wish spell had a costly material component as standard. Sorry if I misinterpreted it, but I wanted people who read the thread to not draw eerroneous conclusions. I have no issue with other parts of your post, therefore I did not mention them.
IMarvinTPA 06-02-05, 01:10 PM	Limited wish ALWAYS costs 300xp. That is a high cost. Limited wish costs more xp if the duplicated spell costs more xp. Limited wish adds in material components of 1000gp or more. Given only the first line, it is still an expensive proposition. Adding in the second and third requirements further increases the cost of limited wish in terms of its versatility. The limited versitility and XP cost of death is a compelling factor when choosing to cast this spell. BTW, Heal is a 5th level spell on the Adept list. IMarv
Odin_666 06-02-05, 01:11 PM	Delayed Blast Fireball, by far by far not :D I would quote for Finger of Death and then Teleport without Error
Grynn 06-02-05, 06:25 PM	I don't know why, but I have a real attraction to waves of exhaustion. -6 to Str & Dex, and no running or charging, and it affects an area with no save. It's probably not the "best," but it's really useful.
smrtgmp 06-02-05, 07:02 PM	Limited Wish is great for its flexability. Its saved by butt many a time. I aslo agree with the above poster's assessment of waves of exhaustion. A truly uselful spell.
The Simbul 06-02-05, 07:30 PM	looseing xp 4x a day is costly thats why i believe it is a bad choice. :D A 13th level character recieves 3,900XP for every EL 13 encounter they defeat, in a three person party that is 1,300 XP per person per encounter. If we assume four encounters per day, that is 4,900 XP per day grouped, or 11,700XP per day solo. Alternatively you solo a EL 13 encounter by sneaking up on them (Greater Invisibility, Nondetection, etc), cast Limited Wish during the suprise round to drop their next save by -7, follow up with a save or die or save or severely debilitate spell to match their weakest saving throw, and proceed to gain the entire XP award for yourself. But a 13th level Wizard isnt going to cast Limited Wish four times per day, nor are they going to cast any other 7th level spell as many times either, and you are only going to use spells like Limited Wish against enemies that are actually difficult to defeat. If you are really so worried about the XP loss, just go kill a CR 6 Goblin Fighter to make up the difference. At high levels, the XP cost is all barely existant, and at epic levels its hardly even worth the effort to note the loss in XP on your actual character sheet. If it comes to a point where you actually fall behind the rest of the party, the XP awards system has inbuilt mechanisms to cause you to catch up.
smrtgmp 06-02-05, 07:45 PM	I agree with everything the Simbul said in the above post.
mbfu3k 06-02-05, 09:11 PM	Simulacrum is a great spell, since it all but makes magic item creation pointless. Just make a simulacrum copy of some outsider w/ whatever spells you want as at-will or several-times-per-day SLAs, then polymorph them into something small and cast Familiar Pocket to keep them entirely safe from damage. If you're having trouble find good creatures to clone, just use Planar Binding to bring them to you. Many would easily give up a small clipping of hair as their only service.
Lord shadow35 06-03-05, 12:04 AM	i have to disagree with you the simbul. 4 characters per encounter though. losing xp is hell 300xp a pop is annoying. the cute little -7 is to the next savings throw.(of one creature) the spell used in this case would have the target discriptor being subjuct to spell turning also makes it bad. Also you are prolonging the battle by using a round to hinder a foe instead of take him/her out. ;)
smrtgmp 06-03-05, 12:25 AM	Also you are prolonging the battle by using a round to hinder a foe instead of take him/her out. ;)Unless, of course, you use it with your MM quicken rod to throw out the penalty as a free action and then follow it up with a nasty save or die. That little doozie of a spell combo will take out just about anything in 1 round.
The Simbul 06-03-05, 01:07 AM	losing xp is hell 300xp a pop is annoying.Dying because your Wizard prepared the wrong spell or because your Sorcerer doesnt have some obscure limited use trump-card spell as a spell known is also quite annoying, and is far more expensive than 300 XP. A Limited Wish is capable of undoing almost any harmful condition that could be laid upon you at 13th level, and at higher levels in invaluable for removing undesirable conditions and effects or gaining access to much needed spells that you either didnt prepare or learn, or that your class cannot actually cast. the cute little -7 is to the next savings throw.(of one creature) the spell used in this case would have the target discriptor being subjuct to spell turning also makes it bad.I just stated that in the tactical use of that function of Limited Wish you either quickened it with a rod, or cast it during a suprise round when you enemy cannot act. In either case, you are using it at the begining of an encounter that you have prepared for and initiated, and any high level spellcaster worth their component pouch has a permanent arcane sight to detect enemy protections before the battle starts. Finally, at 13th level a Spell Turning effect is not something your enemy is going to have up all day, or something that you would be reliably be capable of rasing during the first round of combat, and a Ring of Spell Turning doesnt fall within the reasonably wealth limitations of a EL 13 Player Character, and is entirely well beyond the wealth limitations of any equal EL NPC. Also you are prolonging the battle by using a round to hinder a foe instead of take him/her out. ;)Which is why I said you cast it during the suprise round, or use a magic item to quicken it. If you have the opportunity to suprise an enemy, then you are going to be reasonably aware if they are warded by the likes of a spell turning effect.
Lord shadow35 06-03-05, 01:08 AM	not at 13th level sir that item is 170,000 gp. You only get 110,000 at 13th. But at 15th you get 200,000 so you could do it but you would probably die pretty quick due to lack of equipment. Alas yes that is a good idea quicken it at higher levels and sling a disentigrate or a finger. the best thing you could do is quicken the disentigrate with the med rod of quicken and then cast limited wish. Peace :cool:
Lord shadow35 06-03-05, 01:12 AM	so you will walk around assuming that your always going to have that surprise round or that free acton handy. wow you must play sorcerer's and not wizard's. ok if that is your argument.
The Simbul 06-03-05, 01:30 AM	so you will walk around assuming that your always going to have that surprise round or that free acton handy.The -7 to an opponents next save is only one of an almost infinite number of uses for this spell. A spellcaster with access to 7th level spells is more than capable of choosing their battles, or suprising a selected adversary, but the save penalty followed up with a slaying spell is not the only trick this spell can pull off. A Player can find a use for this spell in almost every encounter or obstacle, and can use it to emulate any of a dozen different spells, many of which they may not have prepared, have known, or have access to. In addition, the duplication of other spells via Limited Wish uses the Limited Wish's casting time, which means spells like Legend Lore, Hallow, Energy Transformation Field, or an infinite number of other powerful but long casting time spells can have their benefits gained as a single standard action. A 13th level Wizard can still gain anywhere from three to thirteen times the actual XP cost back in XP awards from defeating a EL 13 encounter, depending upon the number of additional characters (if any) in the party.
Lord shadow35 06-03-05, 01:36 AM	BBEGS at EL 13 are good at suprising pc's just as well. And thats not talking about other npc bad guy's. It is a useful spell but it isn't the greatest. :cool:
Lord shadow35 06-03-05, 01:42 AM	Vison is better than legend lore. look one thing about being a wizard is being prepared. you have other spells that you can prep at lower level and and no xp cost.
runestar 06-03-05, 04:48 AM	But I can't walk around with a vision constantly memorised in my spell slot all day, its a perfectly good waste of a slot which could be used to hold some decent attack spell. I agree with the limited wish part. At lv 14, when a sorc only has 1 lv7 spell, you will want to make it count, and limited wish is clearly the way to go to expand your still limited options.
smrtgmp 06-03-05, 05:00 AM	not at 13th level sir that item is 170,000 gp. You only get 110,000 at 13th. I never said anything about 13th level. look one thing about being a wizard is being prepared.this is precisely why LW is such a good spell. There is no way you can take every possible scenario into account when preparing your spells for the day. As such, the vesitility of limited wish allows you to fill any holes. Now it could be argrued that a wizard wouldnt need to keep this prepared at all times (I would disagree with you, but whatever), but you should certainly keep a couple around on scrolls if nothing else. LW can do things that no other arcane spell of a lower level can achieve (such as duplicating heal, which, as was mentioned above, is a 5th level adept spell).
Thamior Magus Rex 06-03-05, 08:56 AM	I've always been very partial to Prismatic Spray.
Ariarig 06-03-05, 10:34 AM	It depends on what you're looking for, Bave, I mean offensive or versatile spell... But as an offensive spell, I find Prismatic Ray (PHB, p. 264) quite pleasant... Thamior Magus Rex is right... :ghosted:
The Simbul 06-03-05, 11:06 AM	Vison is better than legend lore. look one thing about being a wizard is being prepared. you have other spells that you can prep at lower level and and no xp cost. Vision duplicates legend lore, but with a 100XP cost, a reduced casting time of 1 standard action, and requires a caster level check of varying DC's to determine if you actually gain the information. Limited Wish can duplicate Legend Lore (or any other Sor/Wiz spells below 6th level) and with 200XP cost more than Vision, but doesnt require any caster level check on the part of the caster. A Wizard who prepares Vision, or a Sorcerer who selects it as a spell known has basically tied up a 7th level spell slot/spell known with a spell that is very limited in its use and very rarely needed. Limited Wish can duplicate effects of Legend Lore, but with the same casting time as a Vision spell, in addition to being able to be used for virtually any other purpose the caster has in mind as well.
Osedox 06-11-05, 11:42 PM	I Like Energy Ebb from LibMort it is a bugger for an opposing spellcaster losing one of their most powerfull spells each round plus other bad stuff
Rundor The Mighty 06-12-05, 07:20 AM	I didn't like prismatic spray (variable effects = blah) so I settled with Evasculate from libris.
Osedox 06-12-05, 12:33 PM	Thats Avasculate with an A and yes it is very cool but I'd hold out for Avascular Mass @ 8th level