Best battlefield control spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best battlefield control spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
osumacbeth
05-22-06, 02:32 PM I'm considering making a sorcerer. If I do, he would focus on battlefield and crowd control in addition to damage. The problem is that I'm something of a newbie to this role in combat, and I know little about good crowd control spells. The things that come immediately to mind are grease, web, and evard's black tentacles. So I ask you, magic community, what spells of any level do you consider the best for battlefield control?
Puca
05-22-06, 02:55 PM Firstly, I like all the spells that you mentioned.
Very good stuff.

The way I define battlefield control spells, because I think others do so differently, is a spell that keeps the enemy from going where he wants to go, makes him leave a place he wants to be, or makes him go where Id rather he go.

There are obvious spells like any of the Walls or Cloud spells.

But, dont forget illusions!
Illusory walls or opponents or, well really anything you can think can be good for making opponents think they cant go somewhere or making them wish they were somewhere else.

Another underestimated (IMHO) chain of spells is Summon Monster. A well-placed monster can screw up an opportunity to charge, offer light cover, and be placed so that it can make AoOs against moving opponents, which intelligent opponents try to avoid.
Nephlite
05-22-06, 03:07 PM A better Grease spell: Sleet Storm 3rd level spell.

4th level Solid Fog is another good one.
Most seem to be environmental.
Warmage-in-Onley
05-22-06, 03:40 PM There are several good spells available and, as a Sorc, you may need to consider what type of battlefield control best suits you/your party. There are those that:
a) impede movement
b) impede visibility
c) block effects
d) do a combination of these.
Too many to analyze here, but some favorites include:
Evard's - for movement, but loses some utility at higher levels
Wall of Force - for effects and movement, great choice for buying some time
Repulsion - for movement, and lets you rip off some ranged attacks
Cloudkill - for visibility, and a decent spell for softening up the enemy.
Of course these are level 4-6, so don't ignore their lower level equivalents.
Pandaemoni
05-22-06, 04:05 PM Leomund's Tiny hut is frequently a good one too. While it's stationary it grants total concealment to those inside and makes a good platform from which to launch ranged attacks, especially against an enemy in a fixed position.

Obviously, all the Wall spells have their uses along with all the "fog" spells (from Obscuring Mist at first level up to Acid Fog at 6th. Glitterdust is great as crowd control against fighters and rogues (not to mention its uses against invisible attackers) Stinking Cloud and Sleet Storm are both good as well as third-level spells. Dispel Magic is good because it lets you dispel other mage's battlefield control effects.

Also, try to get the Spell Sculpting feat. The ability to alter the area of effect of a Glitterdust or Grease spell (and the ability to cast them over a wider area) greatly increases their usefulness.
mvincent
05-22-06, 04:34 PM what spells of any level do you consider the best for battlefield control?Enlarge. Used on say, a spiked-chain wielding ally with combat reflexes and improved trip, you can pretty much control a 50' wide circle (which is usually the whole battlefield).

For crowd control, fireball is a continued favorite (goes great with a lesser rod of maximize).
Father Dale
05-22-06, 06:27 PM Firstly, I like all the spells that you mentioned.
Very good stuff.

The way I define battlefield control spells, because I think others do so differently, is a spell that keeps the enemy from going where he wants to go, makes him leave a place he wants to be, or makes him go where Id rather he go.

There are obvious spells like any of the Walls or Cloud spells.

But, dont forget illusions!
Illusory walls or opponents or, well really anything you can think can be good for making opponents think they cant go somewhere or making them wish they were somewhere else.

Another underestimated (IMHO) chain of spells is Summon Monster. A well-placed monster can screw up an opportunity to charge, offer light cover, and be placed so that it can make AoOs against moving opponents, which intelligent opponents try to avoid.

Listen to this man! He knows what he's talking about!

Three Gargantuan Fiendish Centipedes will certainly inhibit a lot of movement and visibility. As will a few Huge Air Elementals with Combat Reflexes.
psionichamster
05-22-06, 07:23 PM as a sorcerer, look for the spells that give you the best utility

1: grease (possibly swap out when you get web)
2: web
3: summon monster 3 (1d4+1 screeners, every round? yes pls) AND stinking cloud (fort save, decent duration, non-lethal, if that means anything to you)
4: evards. nuff said (possibly summon IV, but thats debatable)
5:cloudkill, wall of stone, wall of force, mirage arcana (never underestimate the "battlefield control" of creating earthworks, fortifications, pits, traps, and whatnot in 1 spell, rather than huge numbers of man-hours. who cares if they're really there or not, they only get a save when they try to hack through the door anyways...)
6:greater dispel (who doesn't want this), acid fog
7th and up, you're on your own, i hardly ever get past lvl 12, anyways

namaste'
the hamster
ArayanAraya
05-22-06, 08:02 PM Permeable Form (LoM), Wings of Cover (RoD), and Ruin Delvers Fortune (SpC)...3 spells no sorcerer who likes to live shouldn't be without. So if you count staying alive as battlefield control then take these.
smrtgmp
05-22-06, 08:32 PM I like a lot of the spells mentioned above, but since I dont want to rehash anything, I'll stick to new suggestions.

Wall of sand is a favorite of mine. Its similar to web except that it doesnt need to be anchored and it prevents speech, vision, and the ability to breath.

Kelgore's Grave Mist (PHB2) is a doozie. 2nd level, medium range 20ft spread that fatigues everything that moves through its area (does a bit of cold damage as well, but the fatigue is better).

The various low level teleportation spells, like benign/baleful transportation (SC) and regroup (PHB2) are also great for battlefield control, as they allow you to move pieces around like a chess board. Very handy. With its ability to call your allies to your side, regroup will save your party on the regular.

Stinking cloud is great. I cant begin to count the number of times its turned the tide in what seemed like an impossible battle.

Dont forget your debuffs, like slow, enervation and ray of enfeeblement. Anything that hinders your enemy will make your life easier.
Hanniball
05-22-06, 08:39 PM My personal fav is definitely Solid Fog especially with the widen spell feat (that doesn't mean Widen spell is good, btw). Preventing your opponents from moving more than 5' in a round leaves them wide open for your Sorcerous barrage of fireballs ;)

Either way...just my 0.02 cp
tiercel
05-22-06, 09:15 PM Others have covered most of the ground I'm about to, so I will see about summing up:

The Conjuration school is home to many of the best sorts of spells you will be interested in, in terms of controlling the battlefield. Note that as a battlefield-controller, you will be hideously more effective indoors and underground, where the battlefield is already limited and you can seal off choke points to sight and movement with a single spell.

A side benefit is that many battlefield-control Conjurations are no-SR spells, so they are just as valuable at high levels as at low levels (though you may consider Heighten spell for extra kick as a sorcerer).

grease is like the ability to trip or disarm at range, and over an area

obscuring mist is a good "getaway" spell (think of every cartoon you have seen where the mustachio-twirling villain hurls a smoke bomb or something to the ground and vanishes in the cloud and confusion with a hearty "MWU-HA-HA-HA!!")

the humble fog cloud blocks line of sight, which takes care of enemies using ranged weapons or targetted spells until they bother to move in, perhaps closer than they like. Once you start throwing around other cloud spells, they may not even be so quick to go charging into this one....

web is so good at keeping enemies from moving that you almost don't care if they make their initial saving throw (look at what you have to do to move through it, if you can't set it on fire!)

glitterdust is area effect blindness that targets the weak save of Big Bruisers, AND it also is an invisibility/hiding buster, AND it is no-SR. Yes please.

rope trick may give your DM fits just because it lets you control when there will BE a battlefield, and when you get to sleep safely. (Note that you will need to be 8th-9th level, or apply Extend Spell at lower levels, to get a full night's rest -- but even a temporary refuge can be a godsend at times.)

stinking cloud does what fog cloud does but also knocks foes clear out of the battle if they blow their Fortitude save -- nauseated is a NASTY status ailment

sleet storm doesn't pack that raw power but still shuts down line of sight, makes movement hard, and packs a nice big area of effect

if you can catch multiple foes with it, slow is very nasty as victims who fail saves will not only have their attacks shut way down (no more full attacks), but will be basically unable to escape or outmaneuver you through physical movement

And this is only from the first three levels of Core spells, and doesn't include the already mentioned uses of summoned monsters (flankers, charge-breakers, cannon fodder -- any damage the summon takes your party isn't) and illusions.

Illusions are worth a second mention because they are great ways to draw out ambushes, especially against powerful foes who seek to overwhelm you quickly, particularly at range. It is very satisfying to see a readied Super Death Combo of high-level spells go off on your humble silent image instead of your frail fleshy self.

Illusions are also good for repositioning unintelligent or generally charge-prone foes... give them an illusionary foe and they will go after it before they have a chance to interact with it (and thus before they even get a Will save). This will let you "move" your foes to where you want them to be, say, clumped together in an area of effect, or onto the other side of a choke-point you are about to block off with a barrier spell.

In general you win with battlefield control by splitting up the enemy and/or inflicting mass status ailments upon him. You make him fight on your terms. Many of the spells you use to this purpose still have some effect even on a successful save (even if you make your save against stinking cloud, it still blocks line of sight and you don't want to stay within it -- many barrier spells create barriers, regardless of saves), or else have an extremely debilitating effect against multiple foes (e.g. being blinded by glitterdust or slowed by slow -- though some foes will suffer zero effect, if you can hit several of them you will undoubtedly knock a few out of the fight).

An excellent feat for many of these types of spells is Sculpt Spell (Complete Arcane). Being able to reshape your own spells makes battlefield control even easier and more precise, and for small-area spells like grease, glitterdust, it also can act like Widen Spell for only +1 spell level.
kaor
05-22-06, 10:15 PM My new favorite is resolute sphere. Control one opponent, save a party member, save yourself. Block a door (if you can find a volunteer target). A useful spell.

Edit: Make that Otiluke's Resilient Sphere.
runestar
05-22-06, 11:03 PM What about enchantment spells? They might be more limited in their targetting, but a well-timed tasha's laughter or charm/dominate might well turn the tide of battle in your favour.
Wonton2006
05-22-06, 11:12 PM If you have the Spell Compendium, there are some more great choices in it.

Slide (Sor/Wiz 1), Greater Slide (Sor/Wiz 2) - No, I don't want him HERE, I want him THERE.
Benign Transposition (Sor/Wiz 1), Baleful Transposition (Sor/Wiz 2) - See above.

There are also 2 or 3 pages of Wall spells in it, all of them amazing. I don't have it on me, so I'll have to go by memory, but, some good low level ones are Wall of Smoke and Wall of Sand.
Higher level choices include Wall of Gears and Wall of Limbs.
Yeah, usually battlefield control spells have a duration and an area. They benefit greatly from Widen and Extend spell feats.
But the real kicker is Sculpt Spell.
"Darn, for once my enemies AREN'T in a spread formation. Oh well. Let's see, should I make it four 10-ft cubes, a 120-ft line, a cone perhaps?"

All the fog spells are great, especially a Widened Solid Fog + Cloudkill. To add insult to injury (or rather, more injury to injury), once the half-dead enemy stumbles out of the solid/cloudkill fog, you can Greater Slide them back in. :D

Gust of Wind and Wind Wall are nice.

Yeah. Lots of choice out there.
tiercel
05-22-06, 11:24 PM What about enchantment spells? They might be more limited in their targetting, but a well-timed tasha's laughter or charm/dominate might well turn the tide of battle in your favour.There is no question about it. In general, though, "battlefield control" tends to focus on spells that change the whole battlefield, rather than knock out an individual.

So... this means area of effects or walls that still have some effect on the battlefield even against foes that make any allowed saving throw...

...or mass-target "save or doomed" spells. You're willing to accept a null result on a successful save if you can catch enough targets to be assured that at least *some* foes will probably be knocked out of the fight.

Single-target Enchantments are awesome for knocking the Big Bad out of the fight, there is no question. They are more "all or nothing" though, whereas standard "battlefield control" tends to focus on "no action wasted" -- every spell cast will have at least some effect tilting the battle in favor of the PCs.

That's not to say that a battlefield controller wouldn't be well served through a couple of potent "save or doomed" Enchantments into the mix, for times when the battle really is against one Big Bad and it basically IS the battlefield.

By the same token, you might want to grab a *little* direct damage because sometimes the party needs a bit of that. That's not the focus of a battlefield controller though -- normally he is content to "divide" and let his partymates do the "conquering" of the enemy piecemeal.
Raven Dark
05-23-06, 02:29 AM Hiss of sleep is a great 7th-level control spell from Spell Compendium. It works like sleep or deep slumber, but it effects 1 target/level (no HD limit) within range of the spell. :D
Lotus Crane
05-23-06, 03:05 AM Great thunderclap is a new favorite of mine from SC. It doesn't do any damage, but if forces creatures caught in its spread to make all three saving throw types, against being stunned, deafened, and knocked prone. They've got to fail at least one of those. :P Plus, for some bizarre reason, it doesn't allow SR.
ManTimeForgot
05-23-06, 04:46 AM Great Thunderclap is a fantastic spell. And it doesn't allow spells resistance because its effects are "supposedly" contingent upon the creation of "real" thunder. The magical energy is used to create a real occurence, and this results in no spell resistance. With a large area and good opponent effectiveness reduction and high defense penetration it is certainly a good high level spell to keep around in case things get messy.

Amongst high level spells reverse gravity is a spell I will swear by. It can require some creative thinking to get the most out of this spell, but by golly when it works it REALLY works. The key thing to remember is that anyone who tells you to dismiss reverse gravity's effect in order to make them take falling damage (barring a couple very specialized trap scenarios) does not know what they are doing.

Polymorph any object is another doozy. If your DM lets your create anti-matter with this, then everything is over... A nickels worth of anti-matter and Rhode Island disappears... But more conventionally you start doing things like transmuting the air into fire, sand, smoke, lava, etc. Do the same thing with the ground beneath people or when they are hovering in air inside a reverse gravity effect, or polymorph the air into something nasty while someone is hovering in air due to reverse gravity...

Enchantment finally gets some powerful combat control spells at high levels. Antipathy, Sympathy, Otto's, Power words, and Symbol spells. Though I have to say I don't like having to slog through the first five levels of spells when it comes to enchantment/charm. Sleep is a hey-day for enchantment until we get into the sixth and seventh level spells. I won't knock suggestion because it is very good, but since I pretty much refuse not to specialize as a wizard something has to go (my other choice is usually necro alongside evocation).

Mirage arcana is a VERY powerful battlefield control spell when cast prior to combat. The ability to change the terrain however you see fit and have it seem real in almost every way is very hard to beat.

Evocation has a couple "fun" control spells at higher levels. Grasping hand and its bigger brothers are nice grapple toys, which don't carry with them the problem of spell resistance. Telekinetic sphere is a pleasant little upgrade to resilient sphere (which you won't get any arguments from me about being good). Being able to push your immobile target into a pit of ultimate destruction is a nice touch.

MTF
smrtgmp
05-23-06, 06:51 AM My personal fav is definitely Solid Fog especially with the widen spell feat (that doesn't mean Widen spell is good, btw). Preventing your opponents from moving more than 5' in a round leaves them wide open for your Sorcerous barrage of fireballs It reduces your speed to 5ft, meaning you could move 10ft as a double move.

And great thunderclap is friggin awesome. My wizard uses it regularly with impressive effects.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
osumacbeth 05-22-06, 02:32 PM	I'm considering making a sorcerer. If I do, he would focus on battlefield and crowd control in addition to damage. The problem is that I'm something of a newbie to this role in combat, and I know little about good crowd control spells. The things that come immediately to mind are grease, web, and evard's black tentacles. So I ask you, magic community, what spells of any level do you consider the best for battlefield control?
Puca 05-22-06, 02:55 PM	Firstly, I like all the spells that you mentioned. Very good stuff. The way I define battlefield control spells, because I think others do so differently, is a spell that keeps the enemy from going where he wants to go, makes him leave a place he wants to be, or makes him go where Id rather he go. There are obvious spells like any of the Walls or Cloud spells. But, dont forget illusions! Illusory walls or opponents or, well really anything you can think can be good for making opponents think they cant go somewhere or making them wish they were somewhere else. Another underestimated (IMHO) chain of spells is Summon Monster. A well-placed monster can screw up an opportunity to charge, offer light cover, and be placed so that it can make AoOs against moving opponents, which intelligent opponents try to avoid.
Nephlite 05-22-06, 03:07 PM	A better Grease spell: Sleet Storm 3rd level spell. 4th level Solid Fog is another good one. Most seem to be environmental.
Warmage-in-Onley 05-22-06, 03:40 PM	There are several good spells available and, as a Sorc, you may need to consider what type of battlefield control best suits you/your party. There are those that: a) impede movement b) impede visibility c) block effects d) do a combination of these. Too many to analyze here, but some favorites include: Evard's - for movement, but loses some utility at higher levels Wall of Force - for effects and movement, great choice for buying some time Repulsion - for movement, and lets you rip off some ranged attacks Cloudkill - for visibility, and a decent spell for softening up the enemy. Of course these are level 4-6, so don't ignore their lower level equivalents.
Pandaemoni 05-22-06, 04:05 PM	Leomund's Tiny hut is frequently a good one too. While it's stationary it grants total concealment to those inside and makes a good platform from which to launch ranged attacks, especially against an enemy in a fixed position. Obviously, all the Wall spells have their uses along with all the "fog" spells (from Obscuring Mist at first level up to Acid Fog at 6th. Glitterdust is great as crowd control against fighters and rogues (not to mention its uses against invisible attackers) Stinking Cloud and Sleet Storm are both good as well as third-level spells. Dispel Magic is good because it lets you dispel other mage's battlefield control effects. Also, try to get the Spell Sculpting feat. The ability to alter the area of effect of a Glitterdust or Grease spell (and the ability to cast them over a wider area) greatly increases their usefulness.
mvincent 05-22-06, 04:34 PM	what spells of any level do you consider the best for battlefield control?Enlarge. Used on say, a spiked-chain wielding ally with combat reflexes and improved trip, you can pretty much control a 50' wide circle (which is usually the whole battlefield). For crowd control, fireball is a continued favorite (goes great with a lesser rod of maximize).
Father Dale 05-22-06, 06:27 PM	Firstly, I like all the spells that you mentioned. Very good stuff. The way I define battlefield control spells, because I think others do so differently, is a spell that keeps the enemy from going where he wants to go, makes him leave a place he wants to be, or makes him go where Id rather he go. There are obvious spells like any of the Walls or Cloud spells. But, dont forget illusions! Illusory walls or opponents or, well really anything you can think can be good for making opponents think they cant go somewhere or making them wish they were somewhere else. Another underestimated (IMHO) chain of spells is Summon Monster. A well-placed monster can screw up an opportunity to charge, offer light cover, and be placed so that it can make AoOs against moving opponents, which intelligent opponents try to avoid. Listen to this man! He knows what he's talking about! Three Gargantuan Fiendish Centipedes will certainly inhibit a lot of movement and visibility. As will a few Huge Air Elementals with Combat Reflexes.
psionichamster 05-22-06, 07:23 PM	as a sorcerer, look for the spells that give you the best utility 1: grease (possibly swap out when you get web) 2: web 3: summon monster 3 (1d4+1 screeners, every round? yes pls) AND stinking cloud (fort save, decent duration, non-lethal, if that means anything to you) 4: evards. nuff said (possibly summon IV, but thats debatable) 5:cloudkill, wall of stone, wall of force, mirage arcana (never underestimate the "battlefield control" of creating earthworks, fortifications, pits, traps, and whatnot in 1 spell, rather than huge numbers of man-hours. who cares if they're really there or not, they only get a save when they try to hack through the door anyways...) 6:greater dispel (who doesn't want this), acid fog 7th and up, you're on your own, i hardly ever get past lvl 12, anyways namaste' the hamster
ArayanAraya 05-22-06, 08:02 PM	Permeable Form (LoM), Wings of Cover (RoD), and Ruin Delvers Fortune (SpC)...3 spells no sorcerer who likes to live shouldn't be without. So if you count staying alive as battlefield control then take these.
smrtgmp 05-22-06, 08:32 PM	I like a lot of the spells mentioned above, but since I dont want to rehash anything, I'll stick to new suggestions. Wall of sand is a favorite of mine. Its similar to web except that it doesnt need to be anchored and it prevents speech, vision, and the ability to breath. Kelgore's Grave Mist (PHB2) is a doozie. 2nd level, medium range 20ft spread that fatigues everything that moves through its area (does a bit of cold damage as well, but the fatigue is better). The various low level teleportation spells, like benign/baleful transportation (SC) and regroup (PHB2) are also great for battlefield control, as they allow you to move pieces around like a chess board. Very handy. With its ability to call your allies to your side, regroup will save your party on the regular. Stinking cloud is great. I cant begin to count the number of times its turned the tide in what seemed like an impossible battle. Dont forget your debuffs, like slow, enervation and ray of enfeeblement. Anything that hinders your enemy will make your life easier.
Hanniball 05-22-06, 08:39 PM	My personal fav is definitely Solid Fog especially with the widen spell feat (that doesn't mean Widen spell is good, btw). Preventing your opponents from moving more than 5' in a round leaves them wide open for your Sorcerous barrage of fireballs ;) Either way...just my 0.02 cp
tiercel 05-22-06, 09:15 PM	Others have covered most of the ground I'm about to, so I will see about summing up: The Conjuration school is home to many of the best sorts of spells you will be interested in, in terms of controlling the battlefield. Note that as a battlefield-controller, you will be hideously more effective indoors and underground, where the battlefield is already limited and you can seal off choke points to sight and movement with a single spell. A side benefit is that many battlefield-control Conjurations are no-SR spells, so they are just as valuable at high levels as at low levels (though you may consider Heighten spell for extra kick as a sorcerer). grease is like the ability to trip or disarm at range, and over an area obscuring mist is a good "getaway" spell (think of every cartoon you have seen where the mustachio-twirling villain hurls a smoke bomb or something to the ground and vanishes in the cloud and confusion with a hearty "MWU-HA-HA-HA!!") the humble fog cloud blocks line of sight, which takes care of enemies using ranged weapons or targetted spells until they bother to move in, perhaps closer than they like. Once you start throwing around other cloud spells, they may not even be so quick to go charging into this one.... web is so good at keeping enemies from moving that you almost don't care if they make their initial saving throw (look at what you have to do to move through it, if you can't set it on fire!) glitterdust is area effect blindness that targets the weak save of Big Bruisers, AND it also is an invisibility/hiding buster, AND it is no-SR. Yes please. rope trick may give your DM fits just because it lets you control when there will BE a battlefield, and when you get to sleep safely. (Note that you will need to be 8th-9th level, or apply Extend Spell at lower levels, to get a full night's rest -- but even a temporary refuge can be a godsend at times.) stinking cloud does what fog cloud does but also knocks foes clear out of the battle if they blow their Fortitude save -- nauseated is a NASTY status ailment sleet storm doesn't pack that raw power but still shuts down line of sight, makes movement hard, and packs a nice big area of effect if you can catch multiple foes with it, slow is very nasty as victims who fail saves will not only have their attacks shut way down (no more full attacks), but will be basically unable to escape or outmaneuver you through physical movement And this is only from the first three levels of Core spells, and doesn't include the already mentioned uses of summoned monsters (flankers, charge-breakers, cannon fodder -- any damage the summon takes your party isn't) and illusions. Illusions are worth a second mention because they are great ways to draw out ambushes, especially against powerful foes who seek to overwhelm you quickly, particularly at range. It is very satisfying to see a readied Super Death Combo of high-level spells go off on your humble silent image instead of your frail fleshy self. Illusions are also good for repositioning unintelligent or generally charge-prone foes... give them an illusionary foe and they will go after it before they have a chance to interact with it (and thus before they even get a Will save). This will let you "move" your foes to where you want them to be, say, clumped together in an area of effect, or onto the other side of a choke-point you are about to block off with a barrier spell. In general you win with battlefield control by splitting up the enemy and/or inflicting mass status ailments upon him. You make him fight on your terms. Many of the spells you use to this purpose still have some effect even on a successful save (even if you make your save against stinking cloud, it still blocks line of sight and you don't want to stay within it -- many barrier spells create barriers, regardless of saves), or else have an extremely debilitating effect against multiple foes (e.g. being blinded by glitterdust or slowed by slow -- though some foes will suffer zero effect, if you can hit several of them you will undoubtedly knock a few out of the fight). An excellent feat for many of these types of spells is Sculpt Spell (Complete Arcane). Being able to reshape your own spells makes battlefield control even easier and more precise, and for small-area spells like grease, glitterdust, it also can act like Widen Spell for only +1 spell level.
kaor 05-22-06, 10:15 PM	My new favorite is resolute sphere. Control one opponent, save a party member, save yourself. Block a door (if you can find a volunteer target). A useful spell. Edit: Make that Otiluke's Resilient Sphere.
runestar 05-22-06, 11:03 PM	What about enchantment spells? They might be more limited in their targetting, but a well-timed tasha's laughter or charm/dominate might well turn the tide of battle in your favour.
Wonton2006 05-22-06, 11:12 PM	If you have the Spell Compendium, there are some more great choices in it. Slide (Sor/Wiz 1), Greater Slide (Sor/Wiz 2) - No, I don't want him HERE, I want him THERE. Benign Transposition (Sor/Wiz 1), Baleful Transposition (Sor/Wiz 2) - See above. There are also 2 or 3 pages of Wall spells in it, all of them amazing. I don't have it on me, so I'll have to go by memory, but, some good low level ones are Wall of Smoke and Wall of Sand. Higher level choices include Wall of Gears and Wall of Limbs. Yeah, usually battlefield control spells have a duration and an area. They benefit greatly from Widen and Extend spell feats. But the real kicker is Sculpt Spell. "Darn, for once my enemies AREN'T in a spread formation. Oh well. Let's see, should I make it four 10-ft cubes, a 120-ft line, a cone perhaps?" All the fog spells are great, especially a Widened Solid Fog + Cloudkill. To add insult to injury (or rather, more injury to injury), once the half-dead enemy stumbles out of the solid/cloudkill fog, you can Greater Slide them back in. :D Gust of Wind and Wind Wall are nice. Yeah. Lots of choice out there.
tiercel 05-22-06, 11:24 PM	What about enchantment spells? They might be more limited in their targetting, but a well-timed tasha's laughter or charm/dominate might well turn the tide of battle in your favour.There is no question about it. In general, though, "battlefield control" tends to focus on spells that change the whole battlefield, rather than knock out an individual. So... this means area of effects or walls that still have some effect on the battlefield even against foes that make any allowed saving throw... ...or mass-target "save or doomed" spells. You're willing to accept a null result on a successful save if you can catch enough targets to be assured that at least some foes will probably be knocked out of the fight. Single-target Enchantments are awesome for knocking the Big Bad out of the fight, there is no question. They are more "all or nothing" though, whereas standard "battlefield control" tends to focus on "no action wasted" -- every spell cast will have at least some effect tilting the battle in favor of the PCs. That's not to say that a battlefield controller wouldn't be well served through a couple of potent "save or doomed" Enchantments into the mix, for times when the battle really is against one Big Bad and it basically IS the battlefield. By the same token, you might want to grab a little direct damage because sometimes the party needs a bit of that. That's not the focus of a battlefield controller though -- normally he is content to "divide" and let his partymates do the "conquering" of the enemy piecemeal.
Raven Dark 05-23-06, 02:29 AM	Hiss of sleep is a great 7th-level control spell from Spell Compendium. It works like sleep or deep slumber, but it effects 1 target/level (no HD limit) within range of the spell. :D
Lotus Crane 05-23-06, 03:05 AM	Great thunderclap is a new favorite of mine from SC. It doesn't do any damage, but if forces creatures caught in its spread to make all three saving throw types, against being stunned, deafened, and knocked prone. They've got to fail at least one of those. :P Plus, for some bizarre reason, it doesn't allow SR.
ManTimeForgot 05-23-06, 04:46 AM	Great Thunderclap is a fantastic spell. And it doesn't allow spells resistance because its effects are "supposedly" contingent upon the creation of "real" thunder. The magical energy is used to create a real occurence, and this results in no spell resistance. With a large area and good opponent effectiveness reduction and high defense penetration it is certainly a good high level spell to keep around in case things get messy. Amongst high level spells reverse gravity is a spell I will swear by. It can require some creative thinking to get the most out of this spell, but by golly when it works it REALLY works. The key thing to remember is that anyone who tells you to dismiss reverse gravity's effect in order to make them take falling damage (barring a couple very specialized trap scenarios) does not know what they are doing. Polymorph any object is another doozy. If your DM lets your create anti-matter with this, then everything is over... A nickels worth of anti-matter and Rhode Island disappears... But more conventionally you start doing things like transmuting the air into fire, sand, smoke, lava, etc. Do the same thing with the ground beneath people or when they are hovering in air inside a reverse gravity effect, or polymorph the air into something nasty while someone is hovering in air due to reverse gravity... Enchantment finally gets some powerful combat control spells at high levels. Antipathy, Sympathy, Otto's, Power words, and Symbol spells. Though I have to say I don't like having to slog through the first five levels of spells when it comes to enchantment/charm. Sleep is a hey-day for enchantment until we get into the sixth and seventh level spells. I won't knock suggestion because it is very good, but since I pretty much refuse not to specialize as a wizard something has to go (my other choice is usually necro alongside evocation). Mirage arcana is a VERY powerful battlefield control spell when cast prior to combat. The ability to change the terrain however you see fit and have it seem real in almost every way is very hard to beat. Evocation has a couple "fun" control spells at higher levels. Grasping hand and its bigger brothers are nice grapple toys, which don't carry with them the problem of spell resistance. Telekinetic sphere is a pleasant little upgrade to resilient sphere (which you won't get any arguments from me about being good). Being able to push your immobile target into a pit of ultimate destruction is a nice touch. MTF
smrtgmp 05-23-06, 06:51 AM	My personal fav is definitely Solid Fog especially with the widen spell feat (that doesn't mean Widen spell is good, btw). Preventing your opponents from moving more than 5' in a round leaves them wide open for your Sorcerous barrage of fireballs It reduces your speed to 5ft, meaning you could move 10ft as a double move. And great thunderclap is friggin awesome. My wizard uses it regularly with impressive effects.