Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Perpetual Wizard 12-15-03, 05:04 PM	Note: This is a 3.0 thread. I just figured out the best creature to "Polymorph Self" into for best advantage in a melee combat situation. -It's a Stone Giant!- Sure its not the biggest or the strongest creature you could change into, but its other benefits are so much better than anything else I've found. The new ability scores you get are: Strength 27 (+9) Dexterity 15 (+2) Constitution 19 (+5) You keep your Intelligence, Wisdon, and Charisma scores, and since it is still a humanoid form, you can still cast spells AND use any magic items you have. In my case, I'm carrying a staff, so it grows to huge size, and does a d8+12 hit points of damage per hit. My "to hit" goes up to 15, too. But the best part is AC. A stone giant has a +11 natural armor bonus! So, combined with this form's dex bonus, my bracers of armor, a shield spell, my ring's deflection bonus, and haste spell bonus, my new AC is 41! That's not even maxed out. I could get it up at least 5 more by getting better magic items, but for now I think a 41 will do. By all means, let me know if I made any calculation mistakes, but I think this tactic is legit. My DM is gonna freak when I suprise him with this next session. With these stats I could wipe the floor with even our toughest fighter!
Powerhouse 12-15-03, 05:39 PM	Honestly, would your character know what a Stone Giant is? That's the way our DM does polymorphing, and I think it's more fun to play if you can only polymorph into stuff that you know about.
Perpetual Wizard 12-15-03, 05:43 PM	We do the same thing, but yes, our party just fought a group of them. He has more knowledge of them than he cares to have.
NorthSaber 12-15-03, 06:05 PM	I was just reading up on Polymorph Self in the SRD and noticed there's no mention of a maximum HD of the new shape - was this a change in 3.5? There's no limit on the creature type either, the only remaining restriction is +/- one size category. I haven't read through the books looking for possibilities under these new rules, but I would think that there's a large or smaller creature with more than Strength 27 (+9), Dexterity 15 (+2), Constitution 19 (+5) and Natural AC +11. For example, Solar would be pretty sweet: Strength 28, Dexterity 20, Constitution 20 and Natural AC +21, in addition to plenty of other goodies. Is the SRD just plain wrong? How is this 4th level spell balanced anymore?
El_Machinae 12-15-03, 07:42 PM	Okay, the Stone Giant is pretty good, I'll admit. But, it's large, meaning you'll screw yourself some of the time (the Reduce spell doesn't last long enough). How about the medium sized celestial? (can't remember the name, maybe Astral Deva?). Check that out. If your DM won't let you polymorph into an outsider (though I can't see why you couldn't), then up the Stone Giant a little bit and polymorph into ... ... a half-dragon Stone Giant. +8 to Strength. +4 (I believe) to AC. Ouch.
The Hanged Man 12-15-03, 07:49 PM	3.5 does cap polymorph, into creatures of 1 hd/level to a maximum of 15 hd. Stone Giant is OK. Note your mods are wrong. Str bonus is +8, con is +4. Still pretty good, though. However, by the time you can turn into a 14 hd monster, you are one level from casting PAO, and can then turn into a Titan or one of several Devils, Demons, or Archon/Angels that put the silly little Stone Giant to shame, and have flying and other cool stuff.
The Hanged Man 12-15-03, 07:51 PM	Originally posted by El_Machinae Okay, the Stone Giant is pretty good, I'll admit. But, it's large, meaning you'll screw yourself some of the time (the Reduce spell doesn't last long enough). How about the medium sized celestial? (can't remember the name, maybe Astral Deva?). Check that out. If your DM won't let you polymorph into an outsider (though I can't see why you couldn't), then up the Stone Giant a little bit and polymorph into ... ... a half-dragon Stone Giant. +8 to Strength. +4 (I believe) to AC. Ouch. It was pointed out to me that the Alter Self language prohibits templates, and Polymorph takes that language straight over. So, no half-dragons. You can't polymorph into Outsiders unless you are an outsider, which is a cool reason to be a tiefling. An Aasimar Paladin/Wizard/EK can be a pretty cool customer, IIRC the Barbed Devil is a good form.
Perpetual Wizard 12-16-03, 10:02 AM	The Hanged Man is right. No outsiders unless you are one and no templates. I also argree, there are more powerful creatures I could polymorph into, but I wouldn't get ANY of their supernatural, extraordinary, or spell like abilities. I could polymorph into a Fire Giant and get a 31 strength, but they only have a dexterity of 9, and I don't want to take that kind of penalty (-1 instead of a +2) to both AC and reflex saves. Can anyone find a better overall creature to Morph into? I haven't.
Raistlin84 12-16-03, 11:44 AM	Stone giant is pretty cool, but I prefer a dragon. With a red dragon, when you become large, you become a juvenile red dragon, so you have 24 armor and 29 strenght. Now you cast haste, then shield and enlarge to become huge, and you will have the attack routine of a huge dragon. 2d8 bite, 2d6 for claws, 1d8 wings, 2d6 tail slap and 2d8 crush, that really hurts. Plus you get to fly, so you can grab an opponent and drop him from very high and you can still cast spell, since dragons can cast spells, unless I'm mistaking on this.
Perpetual Wizard 12-16-03, 12:19 PM	I contemplated that form, but but decided against it since multiple attacks of a new form are not granted by the Polymorph spells, so in dragon form you would only get 1 or possibly 2 attacks per round at best. It also states that you retain the ability to cast your spells if you have human-like hands. Unfortunately, a Dragon's spell casting ability is sorcerer-like and they don't have human like hands, so spell casting is out. I think I'd be much more dangerous if I were able to cast spells in my new form. Plus you wouldn't receive any of a dragon's immunities, damage reduction, breath weapons, etc since they are all either extraordinary or supernatural abilities and you don't get any of those in your new form. But, on the positive side you would be able to fly. That's a plus. We have gone up against a young adult balck dragon, so I could polymorph into one of those. It's an option. Anyone else have any thoughts on the subject?
dantedarkstar 12-16-03, 12:33 PM	I don't remember exactly 3.0 version, but here is some things to consider: >Fire Giant (it's just better than stone one) >Dragon >Umber Hulk (handy for underground due to insane digging speed, even through STONE) >Troll (has nice dex to compliment his strength and all) Tome&Blood (still 3.0) updated Polymorph though, putting 15HD cap and creature type cap as well as thrown multiple changing of creature with single spell. Basically 3.5 version is almost 3.0 version from T&B. Normal 3.0 Polymorph Self was just hideously powerful.
Crinos 01-17-04, 02:40 PM	Annis hag. Impressive AC, high strength, impressive damage, and a rend attack to boot. The only thing that cheeses me is that the 3.5 polymorph self only lasts for minutes instead of hours. Luckily my dm still goes by the old rules in that respect.
helicopter 01-17-04, 07:28 PM	One problem though - - i don't think you equipment, weapons, and armor changes size with you when you polymorph. meaning that nifty +4 set of mithral, twilight full plate cant be used. :( and your weapon gets wielded at a -2 penalty. that makes polymorphing into a medium creature so much more appealing.
coofpsychycic 01-17-04, 07:36 PM	polymorph...huh what a joke -5 AC -2 every traite -50 to 150 hp(leveler) only potion extra's non effecting AC,traite,or hp player has the ability to move as quickly,and 3D6 at 3D6 to have special ability,1 spell if 4 or more,and does the natural attack damage only one form of polymorph can be used a level chosen each new level
Crinos 01-18-04, 11:09 AM	Originally posted by coofpsychycic polymorph...huh what a joke -5 AC -2 every traite -50 to 150 hp(leveler) only potion extra's non effecting AC,traite,or hp player has the ability to move as quickly,and 3D6 at 3D6 to have special ability,1 spell if 4 or more,and does the natural attack damage only one form of polymorph can be used a level chosen each new level uh, that isnt how polymorph works at all. after you cast polymorph, you can change into anything you want as long as its in the hit die and size range (and not an outsider or undead or somethin like that) You can also change into whatever you like and back during the spells duration.
ksbsnowowl 01-18-04, 12:35 PM	Originally posted by helicopter One problem though - - i don't think you equipment, weapons, and armor changes size with you when you polymorph. meaning that nifty +4 set of mithral, twilight full plate cant be used. :( and your weapon gets wielded at a -2 penalty. that makes polymorphing into a medium creature so much more appealing. Um...do note that the original poster mentioned that he is using 3.0 rules. IIRC, with 3.0 polymorph your equipment resizes to fit the new form as long as the new form is one that uses equipment. And there weren't 'weapon sizes' in 3.0 either (at least not in the way you are thinking). He can use his normal weapon just fine, without any type of penalty. The stone giant is probably one of the best equipment-using forms in the Monster Manual. However, if you have access to the MMII, there is another type of giant called a Firbolg (or something like that) that has IIRC, a Str of 36, Dex of 13, and I don't remember its Con score, but I think it was higher than that of the stone giant.
Reven Finale 01-19-04, 01:36 PM	Where is Poloymorph Self in 3.5? I don't see it anywhere...I thought they took it out...??? Its like....not in my book... I see it in 3.0 but I look over to 3.5 and its not there...
ksbsnowowl 01-19-04, 02:06 PM	I think in 3.5 there is only Polymorph (usable on the caster and friendlies - short duration of min/level or 10 min/lvl) and Baleful Polymorph (a nerfed version of poly other - used to screw NPC's and BBEG's by turning them into animals)