Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HARLEYDUDE 02-18-08, 12:53 PM	Hello all I would like suggestions on which combat/damage divine spells to look at. I am making a combat heavy cleric. (we have no other fighter, I am the meat shield) I have access to 6th level spells. I have the war, planning, and domination domains. I also have all 5 levels in ordained champion. I plan on casting rightous might, divine power, magic vestment and elation(boed) everyday. (DMM Persist) Since I have Ordained Champion I can cast spells through my weapon like a duskblade. I also didnt get any ranged weapon thinking to depend on spells for ranged combat. There is another healer in the group so I dont plan on healing at all. My request is help on spell selection (at least a base of favorites) for my cleric. I just dont have time to read every book. Access to PH, PH2, all Completes, BOVD, BOED, Spell Compendium, NO Eberrion, all races (stone, destiny, etc) all scapes (cityscape, stormwrack, dungeonscape, etc). Thankyou, HD
Tedronai 02-18-08, 02:49 PM	If you're going up against individual undead or evil outsiders, then Bolt of Glory is your friend - D12 per caster level. Maximize for best effect.
pigknight 02-18-08, 03:17 PM	Flamestrike, and higher level inflict wounds series of spells. Also two-handers and power attack.
HARLEYDUDE 02-18-08, 03:26 PM	Thanks for the quick reply; If you're going up against individual undead or evil outsiders, then Bolt of Glory is your friend - D12 per caster level. Maximize for best effect. what book is this in? Pigknight, I am using a 2 handed weapon with power attack (and reach). Flame strike is on my domain list already, but I did forget about inflict spells. That is a great fall back. Thanks What about other area spells or ranged touch spells? Thanks again HD
Sildatorak 02-18-08, 06:24 PM	Bolt of Glory is in the spell compendium. Its d12/level damage is only against evil outsiders and negative energy creatures, so it is one of those highly effective situational spells.
BW0222 02-18-08, 07:04 PM	Harm. Fireseeds. Blade barrier. Empowered flame strike. Empowered call lightning or call lightning storm (over time). Summon nature's ally or monster IV (over time).
Lamorake 02-18-08, 09:01 PM	I would suggest: Moonbolt (empowered) - 4th lvl from Spell Compendium - It does a decent amount of Str damage (if living) or can hold (if undead). If you are tanking, this is a great way to lower the enemy's dmg and chance to hit by melee.
ikki 02-18-08, 09:12 PM	If I may...? A cleric should understand their part in the team, which most of the time is twofold: I heal II deal with the undead Rogues do the killing, fighters absorb the damage if they dont have a wizard who can stonewall the monsters into suitable pockets. Its not primarily the clerics duty to kill orcs/giants/mindflayers, so you can forget about most attack spells and stick to those bolts of glory vs undead. Instead be there to heal and ressurrect. Ohwell, a occasional attack is probly excusable tho.
jaelis 02-18-08, 10:02 PM	Nice thing about clerics is they can do pretty much whatever they want and still be effective. If you really want divine direct damage, druid is the way to go. But you might check hypothermia and sound lance (SpC). Also, mark of doom (PH2) can be quite potent.
pigknight 02-19-08, 08:47 PM	Don't listen to the guys that say cleric can not replace the tank. It can, and more. Clerics don't sart getting nukers until 9th level (ala flamestrike). At higher levels harm, greater harm, and mass harm just destroys living creatures. And hold person + coup de grace is a killer combo. Just wondering but are you a negative channeler?
Eldritch_Lord 02-19-08, 08:56 PM	If I may...? A cleric should understand their part in the team, which most of the time is twofold: I heal II deal with the undead Rogues do the killing, fighters absorb the damage if they dont have a wizard who can stonewall the monsters into suitable pockets. Its not primarily the clerics duty to kill orcs/giants/mindflayers, so you can forget about most attack spells and stick to those bolts of glory vs undead. Instead be there to heal and ressurrect. Ohwell, a occasional attack is probly excusable tho. I beg to differ. The cleric can fulfill the fighter's role quite well and still have time and spells to heal the party--after the fight is over and after the cleric has contributed to the combat rather than sitting in the back waiting to heal. Especially since he specifically asked for combat spells, your advice to stick to healing is very inapplicable.
zeratulcraft 02-19-08, 09:07 PM	If you're meleeing, Divine Power and Righteous Might from the PHB1 are awesome. First one turns your BAB to the same as a fighter and gives some extra HP, and Righteous Might gives you +6 strength and increases your size. So yeah, two spells and you're better than a fighter. EDIT : That was to the 'stay back and heal' guy. A bandage is not a character concept.
ikki 02-20-08, 08:42 AM	heh, fighters arent even meant for killing ;) Rogues are at 6 attacks and dmg 50/attack each round.
Belidshe 02-20-08, 09:44 AM	A cleric is the most powerful character in game. With a high wisdom u can have DC's with 28 or 29 or even 30, with a nice feat a some good prestige class. With 2 spells u can reach a high AC... 30 or more. u can become a fighter with also 2 spells. A cleric is a party itself... just have to pick good spells and have a good relationship with ur god...
Axiomatic_vampire 02-20-08, 10:10 AM	At higher levels harm, greater harm, and mass harm just destroys living creatures. IIRC mass harm is a dread necromancer spell. I don't think it made it onto the cleric spell list.
wonlee76 02-20-08, 10:38 AM	IIRC mass harm is a dread necromancer spell. I don't think it made it onto the cleric spell list. And despite being named after the awesome Harm Spell, it doesn't do what Harm does. I think it does d12/caster level in damage (vs. 10/caster level in damage). Pretty huge difference in damage output (10/level vs. 6.5/level on average).
HARLEYDUDE 02-20-08, 11:18 AM	Pigknight- I had originally wanted to go neg but with my other choices I am a positive channeler, however I took the Ordained Champion PrC. So I spon cast war domain spells. I also went DMM Cheese.(persist spell, with night sticks). If you're meleeing, Divine Power and Righteous Might from the PHB1 are awesome. First one turns your BAB to the same as a fighter and gives some extra HP, and Righteous Might gives you +6 strength and increases your size. So yeah, two spells and you're better than a fighter. EDIT : That was to the 'stay back and heal' guy. A bandage is not a character concept. So I (everyday) cast persist Righteous Might, persist Divine Power, magic vestment and persist Elation (BOED). With this I have a 28 str and 22 con. I think I can take the role of the fighter. I also took leadership and have a healer/combat medic cohort. so I am not a bandaid. Thanks again for all the imput HD p.s. Pigknight- I love the hold person and coup d grace combo!!!
Oswald Krato 02-20-08, 11:33 AM	Corona of Cold helps with your tanking ability. 3rd level, SC. Negs to Strength and something else, AND you do d12 cold damage in an area around you per round. Another handy little buff you can Persist if you want.
wonlee76 02-20-08, 12:02 PM	So I (everyday) cast persist Righteous Might, persist Divine Power, magic vestment and persist Elation (BOED). With this I have a 28 str and 22 con. I think I can take the role of the fighter. You know... your DM never planted a targetted dispel on you ever? The fact that you're an enlarged (whatever your base race is) paints a big ol' bullseye on you for a targetted dispel. :P This is why I tend not to persist Righteous Might because its obvious you're magically buffed up vs. Divine Power where its not so obvious. Flamestrike, Firestorm, etc. are decent ranged area of effect attacks that are useful (though energy substitution would be very helpful to bypass immunities/resistances). Mass Cause Wound spells or Mass Harm are also helpful spells to use. Mass Cure spells could be used offensively against undead. Take advantage of that considering you probably burnt up all your turn undead attempts to persist so many spells (24 turning attempts... egads man). With your current build, you really don't need offensive spells other than a few Area of Effect range spells to soften up your enemies before you get into melee range.
HARLEYDUDE 02-20-08, 01:01 PM	Targeted dispell...hmmm... yea that could be a problem. well Ill cross that bridge when I get there. Flamestrike is my war domain spell and all the inflict are already on my"list". We haven't really seen any undead where we are but my healer cohort should be very potent against them. thanks for the input everyone. HD
navar100 02-20-08, 01:05 PM	If I may...? A cleric should understand their part in the team, which most of the time is twofold: I heal II deal with the undead Rogues do the killing, fighters absorb the damage if they dont have a wizard who can stonewall the monsters into suitable pockets. Its not primarily the clerics duty to kill orcs/giants/mindflayers, so you can forget about most attack spells and stick to those bolts of glory vs undead. Instead be there to heal and ressurrect. Ohwell, a occasional attack is probly excusable tho. 1) He mentioned there are no other fighters. He is the meat shield. 2) Healing is important. A healing spell during combat is a viable tactic since party members are not expendable. Being a healbot is boring to play and ultimately inefficient if that's all the cleric does. Clerics have access to spells that are not Cure Wounds for a reason. 3) Not every single combat will be against undead. Undead aren't necessarily going to be common opponents.
navar100 02-20-08, 01:10 PM	Searing Light is good for a nice range attack. It does more damage against undead and a bit less against constructs, but it's still decent. Divine Vengeance is nice for a 2nd level area spell to help with damage attrition. Cometfall is a good 6th level damage spell that also affects 10ft terrain. Blade Barrier can be used as a wall but also an attack spell if you are willing to risk a reflex save to negate. The Bladebarrier is still there if the opponent(s) save, but they get to choose which side of it they are on. Don't forget Harm and Slay Living!
teamfireyleader 02-20-08, 01:35 PM	These are if your DM likes sending you against the forces of evil. Hammer of righteousness is a powerful spell from BoED. 1d6/level or 1d8/level vs. evil stuff, just for 1d3 strength that can be healed (hopefully) by your cohort. Curtain of light for battlefield control. Sword of concience, knock 'em unconcious then coup de grace.
StruckingFuggle 02-20-08, 02:12 PM	Targeted dispell...hmmm... yea that could be a problem. well Ill cross that bridge when I get there. You may find one of these to be useful (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#counterspells). There's also, somewhere - I forget which book it's in, dangit - a Weapon Special Ability that makes the wielder immune to one specific spell - when it's cast on the wielder, the weapon absorbs it - and, IIRC, can 'shoot it back at' the caster. Edit: Oh! Oh! I'm AFB ATM, but I'm also all but sure it's a cleric spell - Avasculate is a great (granted, high level) opener. Dealing damage to an opponent equal to half their hp is a great way to start off a fight. :)
pigknight 02-20-08, 02:12 PM	Be careful about ring of blades, when you go to heal them it may just grind 'em into pile of meat. Prepare an extra flamestrike, because it is crazy. (Level)d6 (max 15d6) that always does damage. Use divine metamagic persistant vigor. It's really funny.
HARLEYDUDE 02-21-08, 07:25 PM	You may find one of these to be useful (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#counterspells). There's also, somewhere - I forget which book it's in, dangit - a Weapon Special Ability that makes the wielder immune to one specific spell - when it's cast on the wielder, the weapon absorbs it - and, IIRC, can 'shoot it back at' the caster. Edit: Oh! Oh! I'm AFB ATM, but I'm also all but sure it's a cleric spell - Avasculate is a great (granted, high level) opener. Dealing damage to an opponent equal to half their hp is a great way to start off a fight. :) I checked out the ring link. I had forgotten about counterspelling. That ring is only 4000gp. I have that much yet. Where is Avasculate? Cause it sounds great! teamfireyleader- Those all look great also, are they all from BOED? HD
StruckingFuggle 02-21-08, 07:57 PM	Where is Avasculate? Cause it sounds great! Spell Compendium. I forget where it was originally printed, but it is in the SpC.
Drackthor 02-22-08, 12:39 AM	If I may...? A cleric should understand their part in the team, which most of the time is twofold: I heal II deal with the undead Rogues do the killing, fighters absorb the damage if they dont have a wizard who can stonewall the monsters into suitable pockets. This is not World of Warcraft. This is not World of Warcraft. This is not World of Warcraft. This is not World of Warcraft. This is not World of Warcraft. This is not World of Warcraft. This is not World of Warcraft. This is not World of Warcraft. This is not World of Warcraft. This is not World of Warcraft. This is not World of Warcraft. This is not World of Warcraft. This is not World of Warcraft. This is not World of Warcraft. This is not World of Warcraft.
HARLEYDUDE 02-22-08, 11:23 AM	double post sorry
HARLEYDUDE 02-22-08, 11:24 AM	- when it's cast on the wielder, the weapon absorbs it - and, IIRC, can 'shoot it back at' the caster. Edit: Oh! Oh! I'm AFB ATM, but I'm also all but sure it's a cleric spell - Avasculate is a great (granted, high level) opener. Dealing damage to an opponent equal to half their hp is a great way to start off a fight. :) one more question-what do your abbriviations mean. I am not a usual chat room visitor. IIRC? ABF? ATM? thanks HD p.s. did you remember what book that weapon special ability(spell immunity) is in? that would be much better than the ring.
slavrut 02-22-08, 11:38 AM	I have a effective combo with my cleric : First, use a weapon that provide you damage x3 on a critical hit. Visage of Deity (Complete Divine) let you have a smite evil (add your level for damage) then you can use it with Surge of Fortune (complete Champion) that gives you a natural 20 on a dice roll. (of course, you still have to confirm the threat, so easy with Divine insight (complete adventurer))
narack 02-22-08, 12:41 PM	Empower Maximized Mass Harm
Axiomatic_vampire 02-22-08, 01:13 PM	Mass harm is a dread necromancer spell. When did it make it on to the Cleric's list? As of heroes of horror, DN only.
pigknight 02-22-08, 02:01 PM	Mass harm is a dread necromancer spell. When did it make it on to the Cleric's list? As of heroes of horror, DN only. In Heroes of Horror mass harm is stated as being on the cleric spell list.
JamesMaissen 02-22-08, 05:17 PM	Hello all I would like suggestions on which combat/damage divine spells to look at. I am making a combat heavy cleric. (we have no other fighter, I am the meat shield) I have access to 6th level spells. I have the war, planning, and domination domains. I also have all 5 levels in ordained champion. What's the rest of your party looking like? You might just be fine cranking up the AC and keeping the bad guys busy while the others take them out. Also a ring of counterspells is wonderful for the dispels you might draw. If you have access to HoB then there's a battlefield perception spell that can let you counterspell as an immediate action if I recall correctly. Load a dispel and greater dispel and you should be good with that as defense against it. -James
pigknight 02-22-08, 05:38 PM	James, did you not read the thread?
StruckingFuggle 02-22-08, 07:50 PM	one more question-what do your abbriviations mean. I am not a usual chat room visitor. IIRC? ABF? ATM? Oh! Hah! Sorry. "If I Remember Correctly", "Away From Book", and "At The Moment". I'm around my books now, so I'll get a-digging. Sadly, I think it's in an obscure Forgotten Realms book.
Kuroimaken 02-22-08, 09:11 PM	There's also, somewhere - I forget which book it's in, dangit - a Weapon Special Ability that makes the wielder immune to one specific spell - when it's cast on the wielder, the weapon absorbs it - and, IIRC, can 'shoot it back at' the caster. Spellblade, Player's Guide to Faerun. The good news: it's not one specific spell, it's whatever spell's cast at you -- and you can 'shoot it back' on your next turn as a free action. Useful for targeted dispel. The bad news: only once per round, it's based off spell turning (meaning your DM might rule that spells not affected by spell turning aren't affected by that blade either), and I don't know whether PGtF is considered 3.5...
JamesMaissen 02-22-08, 11:11 PM	James, did you not read the thread? I'm sorry what did I miss? I did read the thread. He mentions having a healer cohort.. but no mention of other PCs. He mentions a list of books (and no eberron) but doesn't mention HoB one way or the other. Looking back.. I finally find a link to a ring of counterspells but nothing in the post mentioned it as a ring of counterspells and I didn't bother going to click on the link the first time through... was THAT what you were refering to by didn't I read the thread??? I was responding to different parts of the thread so I figured it was fairly evident that I had read through it. Sorry if I missed one part... sheesh. -James
Osedox 02-23-08, 08:44 AM	Darkfire is a decent once per round ranged attack spell with a good range which gets silly if you apply the right metamagic to it. Its in the Spell Compendium.
pigknight 02-23-08, 01:09 PM	Sorry James was kinda half-asleep when I wrote that and read what you typed wrong :).
HARLEYDUDE 02-24-08, 12:51 PM	Thanks so much for all your imput. now to answer some questions. I do have access to HOB and HOH and that whole "mini"series, (I dont own them myself but they are allowed. I think there is also one on abberations, or something). The rest of the party consists of: a straight up warlock(who has been doubling for our healer (UMD)). a rogue, something, something, dread pirate. I dont really know what he multi classed in but as a whole he is not a major damage dealer. a psion of some sort(mind control focused). and a rogue/assassin. the rogue/assassin is a new chara. last week our druid walked away and the player brought her in. (she didnt like where the druid was working out). So I havent seen much of her yet. As last week I have been playing a Duskblade4/beast heart adept7. It was a cool idea that didnt turn out like i thought it would. so I plan on walking him away mon night and bringing in this new cleric. My old chara was a oorg (deep orc) with a girrilion and owlbear animal companions. so we were the meatshield. hence the reason to bring in a combat ready cleric. HD
pigknight 02-24-08, 04:53 PM	DMM (Persistant) Vigor, no more need for a healer. Glad I coud help.
zapogee 02-24-08, 05:17 PM	May want to consider picking up the Energy Substitution feat, Acid or Cold, to get some energy type diversity for flame strike, fires torm etc..