best options to POLYMORPH [Archive] - Wizards Community

best options to POLYMORPH [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gfalabella
06-07-06, 01:12 PM probably this question was already asked a hundred times, but since I couldn't find nothing, here it goes.... what are the best options to polymorph into? Some suggestions about (preference on those able to cast spells, with arms and all...)

* a tough creature, with lots of CON and HP
* a flying creature
* a swiming creature able to breathe under water
* any creature with cool polymorph-allowed abilities (good graple, speed...)
BaelinWhale
06-07-06, 01:23 PM This is a pretty open question since the options are numerous. I'm assuming here that you're running a base level 7-10 spellcaster, so here are some recommendations:

One of my personal favorites is probably the Hydra. Its got reach, lets you hit with a lot of attacks, and even has a swim speed The hydra is also a pretty tough critter. Note however, that this last bit is pretty redundant now since they've errataed Polymorph (and all related shapechange effects) so that you no longer gain or lose Hit Points when a Polymorph effect changes your Constitution. [Short version: You add the changed Constitution score to Fortitude saves only. Hit Points stay the same.]

The griffon is another useful choice since its got one of the fastest fly speeds.

Cloaker's are good too since you can use their extraordinary Special Attacks.

Remorhaz is a powerful creature whose special attacks allow you to chow down on foes.

Rust Monster (Bye-bye fighters) :D

Wyverns: Fly speed, 6 attacks, and one of the most potent poison attacks to boot.
Lord of Dorkness
06-07-06, 01:29 PM The 3.5 Polymorph Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=175846)
mvincent
06-07-06, 02:18 PM Hydra
Squirrelloid
06-07-06, 02:55 PM After all the "almost-errata" and whatnot, this is really a question about "how do you think polymorph works" and is impossible to answer without knowing.
worst_player_ever
06-07-06, 06:00 PM Um, just so you know, you can transform into a Hydra, only if you ENLARGE yourself (if you're medium sized.)
mvincent
06-07-06, 06:15 PM Um, just so you know, you can transform into a Hydra, only if you ENLARGE yourself (if you're medium sized.)How do you figure?

(i.e. you are incorrect, but I need to know howso before correcting you).
worst_player_ever
06-07-06, 06:44 PM Here's what I mean.
Polymorph functions like Alter Self.
In the description of Alter Self , it says :You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size.

So if you're medium sized, you can transform to a MAX large creature.

Hydras are HUGE.

That's why you need to enlarge yourself.

Am I wrong?
Osedox
06-07-06, 06:49 PM Am I wrong?No.
worst_player_ever
06-07-06, 06:56 PM Thanx Osedox.

So as I was saying, you need to cast Enlarge self to become a Hydra, and that makes it a highly valuable lvl 1 spell.
mvincent
06-07-06, 07:12 PM Polymorph functions like Alter Self.
In the description of Alter Self , it says :You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size.

Am I wrong?Yes, but that is actually a common interpretation. I was thinking that was the problem but I wanted to make sure.

This was discussed (at extreme length) in an old thread. In that thread it was conclusively determined that the size stipulation given in Alter self was not still applicable in Polymorph. Trying to find a link to the old thread or relating some of the finer points would actually take some serious effort, so I'm hoping the assurance of my veracity will be enough (if not, I am willing to expend the effort, but I will expect a polite thank-you afterwards for the work involved, assuming I am able to provide you the information).

Edit: nevermind, it should be easier than I thought since this was actually added to the 3.5 FAQ not very long ago.
2nd edit: Doh! This one didn't make it from Sage advice to the FAQ. Will gather more information
worst_player_ever
06-07-06, 07:24 PM I find this information very useful.
But wouldn't it be too powerful to be able to transform to almost EVERY creature and in ALL sizes????
(if not, I am willing to expend the effort, but I will expect a polite thank-you afterwards for the work involved, assuming I am able to provide you the information).
Ok, here's what we're gonna do.
If you find this thread, I am going to thank you politely.
And then I'm gonna put you in my buddy list.
Satisfied? :D
mvincent
06-07-06, 07:43 PM I find this information very useful.
But wouldn't it be too powerful to be able to transform to almost EVERY creature and in ALL sizes?Possibly, but Balors, Pit-fiends and Deva's are all within one size category anyway. But yes, polymorph in general has balance issues.

If you find this thread, I am going to thank you politely.You sir are a gentleman.

From this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8442089) comes:
'While the the Polymorph spell's description does start out by saying, "This spell functions like Alter Self, except..." I can't assume that this spell 'inherits' the limitation of a 1-size-level jump because, later, it says: "You can't cause a subject to assume a form smaller than fine." '
and
"That is a 3rd edition rule, not 3.5. 3.5 has not such size restriction"

From this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=518323) comes:
"the reasoning that the line "You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine" rescinds only part of the line "The new form must be within one size category of your normal size." is faulty."

Lastly, this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040525a) might help you. It is a WotC "Rules of the Game" article specifically about Polymorphing. It reiterates that the assumed form's size can be anything from Fine to Colossal when using polymorph.
worst_player_ever
06-07-06, 09:05 PM So Skip Williams says...
The assumed form's size can be anything from Fine to Colossal. The kind of creature you choose for the assumed form determines the size. The subject becomes the same size as an average member of its kind. For example, if you turn the subject into a troll, the subject becomes size Large, which is the standard size for a troll.

Well, since Skip Says it,
1)You were right
2)I was wrong
3)A great big THANK YOU (you deserve it)
belthazzar1113
06-08-06, 12:50 AM hey!

question is negated now that polymorph has been totally revamped inthe PHB2! huzza for debate enders!
worst_player_ever
06-08-06, 05:47 AM *cough*

Actually, my friend, as I said on another thread, the PH2 is a supplement. You don't have to use it if you don't want to.

Polymorphed is NOT changed.They just offered another solutions to the campaigns that suffered the 'Polymorph problem'.

Perhaps it will be changed in the 4th edition.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gfalabella 06-07-06, 01:12 PM	probably this question was already asked a hundred times, but since I couldn't find nothing, here it goes.... what are the best options to polymorph into? Some suggestions about (preference on those able to cast spells, with arms and all...) * a tough creature, with lots of CON and HP * a flying creature * a swiming creature able to breathe under water * any creature with cool polymorph-allowed abilities (good graple, speed...)
BaelinWhale 06-07-06, 01:23 PM	This is a pretty open question since the options are numerous. I'm assuming here that you're running a base level 7-10 spellcaster, so here are some recommendations: One of my personal favorites is probably the Hydra. Its got reach, lets you hit with a lot of attacks, and even has a swim speed The hydra is also a pretty tough critter. Note however, that this last bit is pretty redundant now since they've errataed Polymorph (and all related shapechange effects) so that you no longer gain or lose Hit Points when a Polymorph effect changes your Constitution. [Short version: You add the changed Constitution score to Fortitude saves only. Hit Points stay the same.] The griffon is another useful choice since its got one of the fastest fly speeds. Cloaker's are good too since you can use their extraordinary Special Attacks. Remorhaz is a powerful creature whose special attacks allow you to chow down on foes. Rust Monster (Bye-bye fighters) :D Wyverns: Fly speed, 6 attacks, and one of the most potent poison attacks to boot.
Lord of Dorkness 06-07-06, 01:29 PM	The 3.5 Polymorph Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=175846)
mvincent 06-07-06, 02:18 PM	Hydra
Squirrelloid 06-07-06, 02:55 PM	After all the "almost-errata" and whatnot, this is really a question about "how do you think polymorph works" and is impossible to answer without knowing.
worst_player_ever 06-07-06, 06:00 PM	Um, just so you know, you can transform into a Hydra, only if you ENLARGE yourself (if you're medium sized.)
mvincent 06-07-06, 06:15 PM	Um, just so you know, you can transform into a Hydra, only if you ENLARGE yourself (if you're medium sized.)How do you figure? (i.e. you are incorrect, but I need to know howso before correcting you).
worst_player_ever 06-07-06, 06:44 PM	Here's what I mean. Polymorph functions like Alter Self. In the description of Alter Self , it says :You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. So if you're medium sized, you can transform to a MAX large creature. Hydras are HUGE. That's why you need to enlarge yourself. Am I wrong?
Osedox 06-07-06, 06:49 PM	Am I wrong?No.
worst_player_ever 06-07-06, 06:56 PM	Thanx Osedox. So as I was saying, you need to cast Enlarge self to become a Hydra, and that makes it a highly valuable lvl 1 spell.
mvincent 06-07-06, 07:12 PM	Polymorph functions like Alter Self. In the description of Alter Self , it says :You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. Am I wrong?Yes, but that is actually a common interpretation. I was thinking that was the problem but I wanted to make sure. This was discussed (at extreme length) in an old thread. In that thread it was conclusively determined that the size stipulation given in Alter self was not still applicable in Polymorph. Trying to find a link to the old thread or relating some of the finer points would actually take some serious effort, so I'm hoping the assurance of my veracity will be enough (if not, I am willing to expend the effort, but I will expect a polite thank-you afterwards for the work involved, assuming I am able to provide you the information). Edit: nevermind, it should be easier than I thought since this was actually added to the 3.5 FAQ not very long ago. 2nd edit: Doh! This one didn't make it from Sage advice to the FAQ. Will gather more information
worst_player_ever 06-07-06, 07:24 PM	I find this information very useful. But wouldn't it be too powerful to be able to transform to almost EVERY creature and in ALL sizes???? (if not, I am willing to expend the effort, but I will expect a polite thank-you afterwards for the work involved, assuming I am able to provide you the information). Ok, here's what we're gonna do. If you find this thread, I am going to thank you politely. And then I'm gonna put you in my buddy list. Satisfied? :D
mvincent 06-07-06, 07:43 PM	I find this information very useful. But wouldn't it be too powerful to be able to transform to almost EVERY creature and in ALL sizes?Possibly, but Balors, Pit-fiends and Deva's are all within one size category anyway. But yes, polymorph in general has balance issues. If you find this thread, I am going to thank you politely.You sir are a gentleman. From this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8442089) comes: 'While the the Polymorph spell's description does start out by saying, "This spell functions like Alter Self, except..." I can't assume that this spell 'inherits' the limitation of a 1-size-level jump because, later, it says: "You can't cause a subject to assume a form smaller than fine." ' and "That is a 3rd edition rule, not 3.5. 3.5 has not such size restriction" From this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=518323) comes: "the reasoning that the line "You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine" rescinds only part of the line "The new form must be within one size category of your normal size." is faulty." Lastly, this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040525a) might help you. It is a WotC "Rules of the Game" article specifically about Polymorphing. It reiterates that the assumed form's size can be anything from Fine to Colossal when using polymorph.
worst_player_ever 06-07-06, 09:05 PM	So Skip Williams says... The assumed form's size can be anything from Fine to Colossal. The kind of creature you choose for the assumed form determines the size. The subject becomes the same size as an average member of its kind. For example, if you turn the subject into a troll, the subject becomes size Large, which is the standard size for a troll. Well, since Skip Says it, 1)You were right 2)I was wrong 3)A great big THANK YOU (you deserve it)
belthazzar1113 06-08-06, 12:50 AM	hey! question is negated now that polymorph has been totally revamped inthe PHB2! huzza for debate enders!
worst_player_ever 06-08-06, 05:47 AM	cough Actually, my friend, as I said on another thread, the PH2 is a supplement. You don't have to use it if you don't want to. Polymorphed is NOT changed.They just offered another solutions to the campaigns that suffered the 'Polymorph problem'. Perhaps it will be changed in the 4th edition.