Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Emir 10-12-04, 09:36 AM	Now, I may become a Lich with my Cleric I'm currently playing and I'm interested in ways on how to keep your phylactery secure. Any ideas?
Count Arioch the 28th 10-12-04, 10:00 AM	What I like to do is have the phylactery actually ON the lich, because a lich is pretty capable of defending himself. However, I like to add in some sort of enchantment. It costs more to add a second function to the item, but it's well worth it when the person who looted the amulet of natural armor +3 off you pretty much prevents anyone from killing you permanently. At least, I've used that trick against players before. Don't know how well it would work versus a DM.
Seeker95 10-12-04, 10:02 AM	Discussed to death. Check >>here<< (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=247619&highlight=phylactery)
green_yawgmoth 10-12-04, 10:05 AM	Let's get the classic/basic ones out of the way, shall we? Get the epic spell "Nailed to the Sky" cast on it. This may suck, because you'll need to protect yourself against re-entry. Mold a brick around your phylactery, and build it into the floor of your castle, preferably a basement floor or secret room. Seal it in an adamantine box several inches thick. Make it into a coin or weapon or something, make it part of the treasure hoard. It'll definitely suck for the fighter when he finds out his +4 keen etc. etc. longsword is keeping a lich alive, and you'll be able to get instant revenge. Even better if you can reform at night; CDG the party that killed you with the phylactery! http://photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
kSquared 10-12-04, 10:11 AM	That's a very bad idea. Your phylactery is now in the hands of the enemy. The usual suggestion is to keep your phylactery somewhere inaccessible in a lost, forgotten, and heavily warded cavern that can only be reached by teleportation, and guarded by zombies. =) Another good idea would be to make a "dummy" phylactery that's just as well-protected as the first one and carry that one on your person. That way, everyone will be convinced they've destroyed you if they smash it.
djinni 10-12-04, 11:57 AM	Read the evil overlord list.... It'll show you what everyone else did wrong so you can do it too! evil overlord.com or something
El_Machinae 10-12-04, 02:15 PM	Keep it on your god's plane - just make sure to stay in his good graces and don't form any rivals among his clergy.
Seeker95 10-12-04, 03:24 PM	Keep it on your god's plane - just make sure to stay in his good graces and don't form any rivals among his clergy.The deity of a lich has no "good graces" And his clergy has nothing but rivalry. We're not talking Pelor, here. We're talking Nerull, etc. If your deity does have good graces, he is likely to destroy the phylactery as a favor to you.
Purkake 10-12-04, 03:38 PM	Make it something really simple and supress the aura. Like a doornail in the outhouse.
mbfu3k 10-12-04, 04:44 PM	Use Genesis to create a small demi-plane with only one portal to access it. Then, fill the demiplane with a permanent Zone of Respite or Forbiddance effect. Then, have a golem take the phylactery through the portal into the demiplane and then physically seal up the portal and tell it to never unseal the portal under any circumstances. Possibly destroy the outside end of the portal. Feel free to include as many guardians or wards on the demiplane as you wish, but they're mostly unneccessary. No way short of epic spells or divine intervention (or maybe Wish) to get in there.
Thomar_of_Uointer 10-12-04, 09:53 PM	I like the idea of making it something inconspicuous. Make it a gem, put the gem in a brick mold, fill it with mud, let it dry, then hide it somewhere with a lot of corpses around. Catacombs seem like a good idea.
masterofmayhem 10-12-04, 10:32 PM	Well . . . you don't actually need your phylactery after you make it, do you? Couldn't you just stick it in a bag of holding, then poke that BOH open, so that "all contents are lost forever"? . . . Lost, but not destroyed. :schemes:
darczero 10-12-04, 11:45 PM	You are cleric, yes? Planning on becoming Lich? Wait until Epic levels, when you can start taking Improved Spell Capacity. Boost your Wisdom as high as you can imagine and then boost it a few points more. Become Lich, create phylactery. Learn Epic feats "Improved Heighten Spell" and "Improved Spell Capacity" until you hit about 15th level spells. Use the Genesis idea. And, as they said, one portal in or out. "Forbiddance" against LG (the most likely to try to destroy your phylactery), "Damning Darkness" (Evil does not take damage), "Unhallow" (just for flavor mostly), and an Improved Heightened Sanctuary on a Zombie that you place there. Give the Zombie the command "Stand Perfectly Still" or "do not attack anything" or similar stuff (if it attacks it breaks the Sanctuary); after all of this is done, the Will save to commit any hostile act in your demiplane should be in the 40+ range. Not too impressive at Epic levels, but it helps.
SphericalTime 10-13-04, 01:45 AM	I've always liked Nystul's Magic Aura combined with a child's stuffed animal. "I'm sorry little girl, we need to destroy your Teddy for the good of the city. No, don't cry, we'll buy you a new one!"
green_yawgmoth 10-13-04, 01:52 AM	I've always liked Nystul's Magic Aura combined with a child's stuffed animal. "I'm sorry little girl, we need to destroy your Teddy for the good of the city. No, don't cry, we'll buy you a new one!"That's so.. so... so evil!! I love it! :D http://photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Someone 10-13-04, 02:54 AM	Bah, its only when he puts the aura on the little girl is when it gets really evil. :smirk: Anyway, just toss the thing on the negative energy plane, its pretty much empty and very, very, nasty to living do-gooders. Or encase it in a sphere of anihilation. Somehow.
Dracoulis The Phyrexian 10-13-04, 04:24 AM	Fillings. As in, teeth fillings. Who'd look? Obviously, don't make them gold fillings (some people might try to melt them down). Just... normal fillings. Bonus points if they're in someone else's mouth!
Methos of Aundair 10-13-04, 09:08 AM	I would build sometype of crypt that was entirely sealed. Then drop several individuals who require breathing into the crypt so all the oxygen is removed from the crypt. Of course also add undead and multiple wards. Anyone who teleports into the crypt automatically begins suffocation due to lack of oxygen. Have protective wards up or continguencies for those creatures who don't require air.
Bonzai 10-13-04, 04:29 PM	I have been thinking about this as well, since My Necro will definatley be heading towards lichdom. From a role playing aspect, here are some things I considered. 1. It can't be on him. One good disintagrate and poof. Two birds with one stone. 2. It can't be in the belly of X creature. They are Mortal and you need a long term solution. 3. It needs to be some place you can watch over and protect it. This IS a litch after all, not the type to trust himself to fate. So the best I have come up with so far, is to Create a small Phlactery, put it in a small, heavily warded and protected box, hide the aura, and then place the box inside liquid adamantite. Cool the adamantite into a block, then cast Stone to mud at the lowest, center point of my tower, till about 30 ft down into the bed rock. Turn the mud to stone, and viola. Your Phlylactery is well hidden, protected, and under the very seat of his power, where he can guard and protect it. So to be truly destroyed, they have to go through him, his minions, dig through 30 ft of stone (assuming they know where to find it), break through the adamantite block, get through the warded container, and do all this before he reforms again and comes to take it back. So, I believe it's safe to say that barring divine intervention ( I.E. Some god or agent of higher power leaks it's location), He'll be around for a bit.
Purkake 10-13-04, 04:40 PM	Adamantite is nothing agains disintegrade. I would still like to make it a doornail and put it on the door of my outhouse. And if you get killed you will reform 30ft in stone with no spells.
green_yawgmoth 10-13-04, 07:31 PM	Adamantite is nothing agains disintegrade. I would still like to make it a doornail and put it on the door of my outhouse. And if you get killed you will reform 30ft in stone with no spells.Actually, he'll have all of the spells he had unused from right before he "died". That's why he'd want to always keep one silent, stilled teleport without error in his head, just in case. ;) http://photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Pentar 10-13-04, 11:26 PM	Personally, I'd permanency a Rope Trick into the side of an unfinished wall of my keep, hide the phlyactery - whatever it is - inside the extradimensional space and then finish the wall up, so that the rope is sandwiched between tons of stone.
Loren Pechtel 10-14-04, 02:30 AM	I would build sometype of crypt that was entirely sealed. Then drop several individuals who require breathing into the crypt so all the oxygen is removed from the crypt. Of course also add undead and multiple wards. Anyone who teleports into the crypt automatically begins suffocation due to lack of oxygen. Have protective wards up or continguencies for those creatures who don't require air. Instead of adding said creatures, drop a load of burning charcoal in. The charcoal will burn the oxygen level lower than the creatures would and it has the effect of filling the place with carbon monoxide--poison to any oxygen breather.
Purkake 10-14-04, 08:41 AM	Actually, he'll have all of the spells he had unused from right before he "died". That's why he'd want to always keep one silent, stilled teleport without error in his head, just in case. ;) http://photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif Actually it doesn't really matter. He could just rest in there and prepear spells all night long. No need for air or food.
Kyuketsukiouji 10-14-04, 10:17 AM	Find a baby elf, implant your phylactery somewhere under his lungs, cast undetectable aura on it, and drop the kid of the doorstep of the local temple to Pelor. You shouldn't have to worry about your phylactery for the next 2000 years or so.
angryman 10-14-04, 11:45 AM	If I were a PC lich (ie, not actually giving anything a chance to stop me), then I'd just make my keep on the negative energy plane. Then I'd do all that tricksy stuff with adamantium blocks under my keep. And an undetectable aura. Also construct 100 false phylactories, and dress all your skeleton minions in robes and a crown. This would probably keep you safe. However, it's up to the DM. If he wants you to die, you will die. The old, "Rocks fall. You die. And your phylactory is also hit by rocks."
Bonzai 10-14-04, 12:28 PM	Do you actually reform around your Phlyactery? I always thought that whatever is left of your body reforms it's self, where ever it is, or the majority of it is. As for the block, that was to protect the container from being damaged by earthquakes and such. If the earth is shifted, the block should remain intact and undamaged.
Raven Dark 10-14-04, 12:40 PM	I've always liked Nystul's Magic Aura combined with a child's stuffed animal. "I'm sorry little girl, we need to destroy your Teddy for the good of the city. No, don't cry, we'll buy you a new one!" I have done something similar before. I made certain that the little girl was a 6-year old princess, the daughter of the murderous tyrant of a neighboring kingdom. I even arranged it so that the tyrant king himself gave the doll to his daughter as a birthday gift. Princess: Daddy! Daddy! Bad men want to kill Dolly! Murderous Tyrant King: What!? Gaurds! Find these men whom my daughter speaks of! Ensure that their deaths are slow and painful! Also, I hereby declare that any not of the royal line to lay a hand upon my daughter's doll shall henceforth be put to death! Make the PCs the most wanted criminals in the kingdom because they tried to steal the princess' doll. Word about such things gets around quickly and their heroic reputation would be squandered to nothingness. Not to mention they would have a heck of a time getting to the doll with a whole kingdom going against them. If you want to be truly evil make the murderous tyrant a benevolent king that the goodly PCs have no reason to go against. PCs: But your majesty, we had no idea she was your daughter! [Insert gruesome death scene here] EDIT: Use the following item as the phylactery. This is what I did in my campaign. It was a lot of fun for our whole group. The Ugly Doll Bards tell tales of an ancient witch who manufactured evil dolls to go out and spread her vile form of evil throughout the lands. This tale is usually dismissed as the beginnings of a child’s horror story, but little do most know that the story does have some truth to it. Ugly Doll (Minor Artifact): The ugly doll appears to be little more than a crude doll made of buttons, cloth, and straw. However, when held up prominently (usually in the direction of a chosen target or targets) and the proper command word uttered, the doll allows the wielder to create a Cause Fear effect (DC 11) up to five times per day, a Fear effect (DC 16) up to three times per day, a Phantasmal Killer effect (DC 16) once per day, or a Weird effect (DC 21) once per week. If used in this manner, the doll appears to transform into that which the target most fears. The Ugly Doll does not radiate a magical aura of any kind. In addition, this doll is also an intelligent item and shares the statistics of the following ugly doll example: Betty, the Nightmare Weaver: Ugly Doll; AL CE; Int 19, Wis 10, Cha 19; Speech, telepathy, 120 ft. darkvision, blindsense, and hearing; Ego score 29. Lesser Powers: Item has deathwatch continually active, darkness 3/day, major image 1/day (DC 14), item has 10 ranks in Bluff, Diplomacy, & Intimidate (total modifier for each is +14). Greater Powers: Detect good or detect law at will, detect thoughts (DC 13) at will, magic circle of protection against good or magic circle of protection against law at will Special Purpose: Spread fear and panic throughout the minds of all sentient beings. Dedicated Power: Dominate person (DC 17). Personality: Betty, the Ugly Doll, was created by a powerful necromancer long ago who wished to instill the fear of her great powers into the minds and hearts of all those around her. Unfortunately, Betty turned on her creator and eventually destroyed the necromancer. Betty has since traveled the world by being passed down through family lines, given to children as a hand-me-down, sold and bought, or simply thrown away to be found by another. Betty rarely speaks to anyone and will usually lie dormant for long periods of time until her wielder is completely alone. When such a time comes, Betty usually corners her would be owner and reveals herself in the form of a young girl or other suitable playmate via her major image spell. Assuming Betty’s owner doesn’t flee in terror at the notion of a living doll, Betty acts kindly and works to gain the love and trust of her owner. In this respect, Betty generally targets young children, as they are more easily tricked and are not normally suspected of being an instrument of spreading terror by the populace at large. Such a victim will inevitably become the target of Betty’s dominate person ability. Betty can read and speak Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Infernal, & Undercommon as well as read magic at will. Strong enchantment, illusion, and necromancy; CL 20th; Weight: 1 lb. There is nothing quite as sweet as two primary antagonists. One who is obvious, and one who isn't.
Gamebird 10-14-04, 02:51 PM	If I were going to fight a liche, I'd use the Commune spell to find out where the phylactery was ahead of time. If it wasn't real close to the liche in question, I'd go grab it and make arrangements for someone else to destroy it a day after we went in to get rid of the liche. You have to think of the ways that people will use to get the phylactery. It's the sort of thing that makes it worthwhile to burn a Wish spell, ya know? "I Wish this liche's phylactery were instantly transported onto this table in front of me right now." Or the Commune route and simply ask a god. The good aligned gods should be real motivated to point out things like that.
Raven Dark 10-14-04, 02:59 PM	If I were going to fight a liche, I'd use the Commune spell to find out where the phylactery was ahead of time. If it wasn't real close to the liche in question, I'd go grab it and make arrangements for someone else to destroy it a day after we went in to get rid of the liche. You have to think of the ways that people will use to get the phylactery. It's the sort of thing that makes it worthwhile to burn a Wish spell, ya know? "I Wish this liche's phylactery were instantly transported onto this table in front of me right now." Or the Commune route and simply ask a god. The good aligned gods should be real motivated to point out things like that. If my method is used, the DM can simply say it doesn't work since the phylactery itself is an artifact and isn't effected so easily by mortal magic. It also makes it a lot harder to destroy too. Using round-about divinations may find out its location, but the trouble is getting it away from the princess without getting killed and then trying to find a way to destroy it. Having an artifact phylactery may be a bit much, but man, what a campaign it would make!
Methos of Aundair 10-14-04, 08:40 PM	Originally posted by Loren Pechtel Instead of adding said creatures, drop a load of burning charcoal in. The charcoal will burn the oxygen level lower than the creatures would and it has the effect of filling the place with carbon monoxide--poison to any oxygen breather. Thanks, though my players may think otherwise. Eventually my players will be facing off with a demilich who has been secretly manipulating/helping/suggesting to them since they were 6th level, Though they didn’t realize someone was pulling their strings until they were 12th. Nice thing about ancient and immortal foes, time is of the essence. The players know someone has been taking an interest in them for quite some time but don’t know who or why. Eventually (epic levels) they will (may) face off with him and I wanted a good deadly place for his phylactery and you just helped out. Thanks again.
green_yawgmoth 10-14-04, 09:48 PM	Thanks, though my players may think otherwise. Eventually my players will be facing off with a demilich who has been secretly manipulating/helping/suggesting to them since they were 6th level, Though they didn’t realize someone was pulling their strings until they were 12th. Nice thing about ancient and immortal foes, time is of the essence. The players know someone has been taking an interest in them for quite some time but don’t know who or why. Eventually (epic levels) they will (may) face off with him and I wanted a good deadly place for his phylactery and you just helped out. Thanks again.An epic VoP wizard will ruin that demilich's plans like peeing in a potion of Cure Light Wounds. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Edymnion 10-14-04, 10:31 PM	My favorite way to hide a phylactory. 1) Have a base of operations, preferrably your own little keep at least. 2) Make sure your base has a privy. You don't go to the bathroom, but trust me. 3) Make sure the privy has big solid stones for a floor. 4) Cast Rock to Mud on one of the stones. 5) Shove your phyl. into the mud. 6) Dispell the mud, reverting it back to stone. There, your phylactory is now encased in solid stone. The solid stone is a part of the floor. It isn't a secret door to a hole with your phyl in it, its just a rock like any other. And best part, its in the frickin' bathroom. Nobody ever thinks to look in every nook and cranny of a bathroom. And it doesn't matter if they blow your entire base to kingdom come. The stone is set against the dirt, it will survive the explosion/razing as the energy gets directed upwards where it meets less resistance. So even if they fill your base with gunpowder and blow it to hell and back, all they've done is bury your phyl under tons of stone, where nobody can get to it.
masterofmayhem 10-14-04, 11:24 PM	Nobody ever thinks to look in every nook and cranny of a bathroom. Heh, funny story . . . My friends were doing The Forge of Fury, and when they went into the bathroom, the fighter jokingly searched it. And he rolled a 20. He found the secret door they needed. We search every room we come across now. :D
YakuzA 10-15-04, 12:22 AM	Good topic, I will hopefully be becoming a Lich in my currect game (a while off). Heres what i plan to do. Put it on the negative energy plane, at the bottom of the negative energy sea, in an adamantine box, guarded by dread wraiths, with improved invisibility cast on it, nysuls magic aura, and hidden behind some negative energy seaweed. :D --AleX
Purkake 10-15-04, 09:06 AM	My favorite way to hide a phylactory. 1) Have a base of operations, preferrably your own little keep at least. 2) Make sure your base has a privy. You don't go to the bathroom, but trust me. 3) Make sure the privy has big solid stones for a floor. 4) Cast Rock to Mud on one of the stones. 5) Shove your phyl. into the mud. 6) Dispell the mud, reverting it back to stone. There, your phylactory is now encased in solid stone. The solid stone is a part of the floor. It isn't a secret door to a hole with your phyl in it, its just a rock like any other. And best part, its in the frickin' bathroom. Nobody ever thinks to look in every nook and cranny of a bathroom. And it doesn't matter if they blow your entire base to kingdom come. The stone is set against the dirt, it will survive the explosion/razing as the energy gets directed upwards where it meets less resistance. So even if they fill your base with gunpowder and blow it to hell and back, all they've done is bury your phyl under tons of stone, where nobody can get to it. Nice plan, but almost every self-respecting lich has an army of undead and thay don't need the bathroom. That would certainly attract the attention of more intelligent PCs.
Methos of Aundair 10-15-04, 09:15 AM	Originally posted by green yawgmoth An epic VoP wizard will ruin that demilich's plans like peeing in a potion of Cure Light Wounds. Then I don’t have to worry since we don’t use those books :D . My players prefer core books only, they don’t trust the balance issues of non-core books.
Loren Pechtel 10-16-04, 12:27 AM	Nice plan, but almost every self-respecting lich has an army of undead and thay don't need the bathroom. That would certainly attract the attention of more intelligent PCs. So, make it look old and unused--it belonged to the former owner, or perhaps the lich while he was still alive. Now there's plenty of dust and it's obviously used for storage. How about this for protecting it: Make a "stronghold" (Stronghold Builder's Guidebook). It's an adamantine ball big enough to reform in. It's enchanted to be *VERY* strong (you'll have to devise a spell), it's enchanted to be immune to fire. It's weighted down with a lot of lead (inside the shell), the density needs to appreciably exceed that of rock. Enchant it with a swim speed. Enchant it with the anti-scrying enchantment whose name I forget. Inside the sphere there is a spellbook containing greater teleport. Take the sphere to a gently erupting volcano and toss it in the center. Steer it down out of the volcano into the magma layer. How can anyone find it? If you die you've got a spellbook there so you can teleport out.
zodiki 10-16-04, 02:09 PM	A PC lich should not go to any trouble at all to hide his phylactery. He should keep it on his person - that way it's always attended and gets the PCs saves as well as making it immune to most direct attacks. The lich doesn't have to wear it on his forehead allowing it to be attacked as an object of course. If the PC lich is destroyed, his compadres can defend his phylactery until he reforms. No matter how well a PC tries to hide his phylactery, the DM can come up with a way to find it and destroy it (or hold it ransom) putting the PC at the mercy of the DM.
darczero 10-17-04, 06:17 AM	Be very afraid when a 5th+ (class) level Hunter of the Dead shows up... when they kill you, you stay dead, regardless of phylactery. (True Death)
Nazzareth 10-17-04, 10:43 PM	Make it out of a diamond glass steel it, shrink it to the size of a grain of sand with polymorph any object or limited wish, then cast the permanency spell with the following spells invisiblity, non-detection then drop it in the ocean or desert.