Best Spellcasting class? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Spellcasting class? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
countbubba
09-24-06, 06:37 PM Which base spellcasting class, if only basic races are allowed, has the most potential? including classes like warlock, wu jen, and shugenja, from non-PHB books.
Comfort_in_Insanity
09-24-06, 11:29 PM I'd say wizard, from sheer versatility.

If, on the other hand, by potential you mean "Ability-to-blow-stuff-the-****-up", Warmage.
Horatio Hornblower
09-24-06, 11:43 PM I like playing wizards, but I'd say cleric has the most potential. Good spells, don't need a spellbook, pray up what you need for the day and pretty good in combat.

I think the spirit shaman has an interesting way of getting spells. Kind of a cleric and sorcerer mix. That's better than the favored soul.
Bopple
09-24-06, 11:49 PM As far as potential goes, it's definitely Archivist.
SageBahamut
09-25-06, 12:36 AM Didn't someone post something about how an Archivist with a Warlock cohort becomes horrifying?
DragonBringerX
09-25-06, 12:50 AM Artificer...hands down.
now i know he isnt a "full caster", but when he hits 15th level, he could make a
rod of metor swarms (50 charges)...no prob.
let the rain of fire begin...lololololololol :evillaugh:
Molot
09-25-06, 02:26 AM Best caster to do what?
To heal and buff - Cleric
To have arcane library - Wizard
To know some random spells with adjustable uses in a day - Sorcerer
To cast divine and get wings - Favored Soul
To blow up things - Warmage
To manipulate - Beguiler
To get 9th level arcane spells, 9th level divine spells and +16 BAB at 20'th level - Bard :schemes:
...
and so on.
Bopple
09-25-06, 07:30 AM Artificer...hands down.
now i know he isnt a "full caster", but when he hits 15th level, he could make a
rod of metor swarms (50 charges)...no prob.
let the rain of fire begin...lololololololol :evillaugh:
As you said, Artificer is not really a caster. But I agree Artificer can be way too powerful.
Molot
09-25-06, 08:26 AM Artificier is powerfull if he has time.
In faster adventure Wizard is more flexible
In even more rapid one both are much weaker
When "without equipment" intro comes to play, only cleric-like and spontaneous are any use at all.
If you don't have even a time to rest, Warlock (race that do not need much rest) seems to be best option...

Speed matters :)
Bopple
09-25-06, 08:32 AM Yeah, but the original question is about potential - that means you are under optimal condition.
Ut-Napishtim
09-25-06, 09:01 AM Dude, the caster with the most power and versatility is the Druid, hands down. Take Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning, that gives you +4 Strength and Constitution on your summoned allies that can be conjured spontaneously. On top of that you have healing, wildshape, offensive spells, reincarnation, good saves plus decent combat skills and armor and weapon selections. Oh, did I mention the animal companions? There's really no two ways about it IMHO.
:twocents:
Molot
09-25-06, 09:24 AM Yeah, but the original question is about potential - that means you are under optimal condition.
potential
1. Anything that may be possible; a possibility; potentially.
Nothing about optimal conditions in that small word ;) For me "potential" should be "measured" in all possible conditions. When robbed of all equipment, Sorcerer has much more potential than Artificier or Wizard... potentially ;)
When thinking about optimal conditions - in optimal conditions for a character any spells (or any action at all) are unneeded :P Optimally, he does not need to care about his wealth, money, food, safety nor love, he has it all. So spells are just for fun. Thus, in optimal conditions bardic spells has most potential :schemes:
Bopple
09-25-06, 09:33 AM You know what he and I meant. Let's not play ambiguity fallacy game.
angryman
09-25-06, 10:15 AM Wizards fall prey to DM tricks more than other casters.
"Your spellbook has been taken."
They rely on components and take a lot of time to study, research and learn new spells. However with spell mastery & eschew components, wizards can mitigate this somewhat. They also make good item crafters.

Druids/Clerics just wake up, tweak their selection and they're ready.
Bards/Sorcerers have an inherently limited selection, but they have limitless choice within that.

From core, then, I'd go with wizard, but I'm biased. Maybe just for me, wizards are more flexible, thus more interesting...
Salla
09-25-06, 01:20 PM My money's on the cleric.

Heavy Armor Proficiency, decent HP, decent BAB to start.
Access to every spell on the cleric list.
Access to domain powers, such as War for a Martial Weapon Proficiency and Focus, and Magic so he can use scrolls, wands, and staves.
It takes four feats, but Extra Turning + Divine Metamagic + Extend Spell + Persistent Spell + Divine Power is a fun combo.
Turn Undead is incredibly useful at low levels, and when it becomes less so at high levels, you have Divine Feats or Divine Metamagic to use them with.
mvincent
09-25-06, 03:08 PM Wizard
smrtgmp
09-25-06, 03:16 PM I prefer the wizard, though they all have their charms.
Grod_The_Giant
09-25-06, 03:21 PM for damage-dealing...

warmage. No two-ways about it. Almost all core/CA damaging spells on his list (so good damage-dealing versitility), no preperation, able to cast in armor.

for utility...
wizard, since he knows lots of spells
Echo_that_Pains
09-25-06, 03:32 PM I am going to agree with the people that said cleric. When you factor in the Divine Metamagic there really is no limit. The only difference between a cleric or wizard is the effect of your castable spells, but as a cleric you would be able to do anything to your spells that a wizard could for MUCH less cost. For a wizard to cast a maximized spell (or whatever metamagic you wish) it requires a spell slot X levels up. For a cleric to cast a maximized spell, it requires 1 turning attempt for each level increase. The level adjustment on a wizard limits what level of spell his feats can effect, while a cleric can use metamagic feats on 9th level spells and just spend a turn attempt instead of increasing the level.

On top of the spell casting, the BAB/armor/saves/etc put this one over the top.
crowclub
09-25-06, 03:43 PM Dude, the caster with the most power and versatility is the Druid, hands down. Take Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning, that gives you +4 Strength and Constitution on your summoned allies that can be conjured spontaneously. On top of that you have healing, wildshape, offensive spells, reincarnation, good saves plus decent combat skills and armor and weapon selections. Oh, did I mention the animal companions? There's really no two ways about it IMHO.
:twocents:

I agree, but prefere to play a Sorcerer!

Sorcerer's are greeeat!
smrtgmp
09-25-06, 03:53 PM They're certainly a lot of fun, especially when making a themed caster.
Silverclaw
09-25-06, 04:15 PM Wisards surely can be great...

but in a campaign where you dont know much about what are gonna happen (and therefore dont know what spells to prepare) a Sorcerer are often better.
of course there are also the divine magic... but i think it is hard to compare divine and arcane magic since i is so different...
smrtgmp
09-25-06, 04:27 PM ...but in a campaign where you dont know much about what are gonna happen (and therefore dont know what spells to prepare) a Sorcerer are often better...This seems to be a common take on the matter, but I disagree. There are a few keys to success when you arent sure whats coming.

First, prepare versitile spells that can be useful in nearly any situations.

Second, a healthy compliment of scrolls (you have scribe scroll for a reason) really helps fill in the gaps. Use them for utility spells that arent heavily CL dependant and fill your slots with spells you're sure you'll be able to use.

Third, you can leave some of your slots unprepared so that you can fill them as needed with 15 minutes of study. I generally prepare all my slots from my highest two levels of spells and then leave one slot open at each of the lower levels. So if I'm 9th level, I'll fill my 4th and 5th level slots and then leave one open at levels 1, 2, and 3.

Finally, divination is a wizard's best friend. Put it to good use to glean some information about what you will be facing in the future. High knowledge checks help a lot in this department as well.

Now obviously a sorcerer takes less thought to play on the fly, but a wizard is hardly lacking in that department.
Osedox
09-25-06, 07:33 PM It all depends on what you are looking for.

I think Wizards have a higher potential for power, but I dont like to deal with wizard hassles.

I think Sorcerers are almost as good, but they arent going to surprise you very often. With a Sorcerer everyone knows your limits.

I just thought of a rather stupid metaphore because i have been watching way too much Topgear lately. A sorcerer is like a Mercedes McLaren, fast, powerfull, hardly any maintenence, and rather generic (or as generic as that kind of thing can be.) A Wizard is a Renault F1, scary fast, powerful as hell, but it takes like 10 people just to start the engine, and the engine gets re-built after every race.

In the end I choose Sorcerers most of the time, and if given the choice I would probably choose the Mercedes, because Im lazy.
CryoSilver
09-25-06, 07:46 PM Druid
bpatel02
09-25-06, 09:09 PM I think you all have missed it. Cicumstance is important, party make up is important, but I think the most powerful spell casters depends on what levels you are talking about. I am playing in a campaign where we started at 1st level and are now average 13th level. Now, of course this is specific to our campaign, but not completly. From 1-5th level, the druid is very good. Wizards and Clerics have not got there great spells yet and druids get really sick monsters to summon; combined with the spells from the Spell Compendium they are nasty low levels. However, than the wizards/clerics catch up becuase of there nasty spells at higher levels.

At higher levels, I don't know which is better, wizard or cleric. I think part of it has to do with the DM as well as the world. Two good examples of this are polymorph vs call ally. My DM says you have to have actually seen a monster in order to polymorph into it. This limits the spells potency signifigantly. On the other hand, when using Planar Ally (6th level version), the DM let the player choose what to call; a decision he regreted when a Ghaele showed up when we were all 11th level.
Mkire
09-26-06, 12:02 AM Best caster to do what?
To heal and buff - Cleric
To have arcane library - Wizard
To know some random spells with adjustable uses in a day - Sorcerer
To cast divine and get wings - Favored Soul
To blow up things - Warmage
To manipulate - Beguiler
To get 9th level arcane spells, 9th level divine spells and +16 BAB at 20'th level - Bard :schemes:
...
and so on.

How in the world did you do that to a bard?
tiercel
09-26-06, 12:46 AM Overall, I'd have to say druid.

The spell list is like a built in cleric/wiz mixture. The vigor line of spells mean you can heal just as well as a cleric out of combat, and the number of attack spells you have mean that you can make things go "boom" with alacrity if needed. You have a respectable toolbox of special effects.

You have the best summoning list in the game, and you can do it spontaneously. If you summon animals, you can buff them nicely (e.g. animal growth), and the upper-level elemental summons make very nice grappler tanks, not to mention short-range scouts (due to high fly speed or earth glide).

You have "divine inheritance" -- every spell on the Druid list is yours. Any time a book is allowed in the campaign, your choices multiply instantly and without effort or cost. If Spell Compendium is allowed in your game you can virtually laugh at a wizard's so-called versatility -- even with a jam-packed Boccob's blessed book, is the wizard ever going to have a number of choices like what you do?

If you ever need really big area of effect spells, it's hard to beat the druid list: entangle, spike growth, spike stones, control winds, control water, control weather, sunburst -- druids are kings of the army vs army battlefield.

Need to sneak around in a way that's hard to notice? Be a flying "weapons platform" raining down magical destruction? Jump into melee? That's right, you can do it all as a full spellcaster, and without necessarily using any of your spells -- that's what Wildshape is for. (You can, of course, boost your Wildshape with spells, but you don't need spells or Persistent Divine Metamagic cheese to acquit yourself well in melee.)

Even before Wildshape kicks in, your trusty animal companion is almost like having another fighter in the party while you cast spells in armor with respectable Hit Dice and two good saves.

Additionally, your skill list ain't shabby for a full spellcaster. Sure, the egghead wizard might end up with more skill points because of his stratospheric Int score (and to be fair, Knowledge skills are worth a lot), but you get Spot and Listen and Survival -- all of which operate off your highest stat. (Survival by itself may not be worth so much, but Druids make pretty awesome trackers.)

And that's not all! You can befriend wild animals, move through undergrowth easily, avoid being tracked, scorn fey enchantments, laugh in the face of poisons, disguise yourself at will (when, for whatever reason, you aren't in animal form), and cease the aging process itself, all without using your spells.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying that a Druid is better than any other spellcaster for any and every given situation. I'm just saying overall, a Druid can do a heckuva lot of things, and do many of them near the level of (or even sometimes better) than a specialist in those areas -- heal like a cleric, blow things up and utility like a mage, scout like a thief, fight like a warrior. If you really need a spellcasting specialist in one of those areas, then by all means take it (cleric, sor/wiz, beguiler, war-type cleric or Eldritch Knight-style gish), but it's hard to go wrong with a decent Druid.

To cap it off, not only does a Druid not need PrCs to make it viable, there really aren't that many PrCs that don't actually *dilute* the class. (You can make a few cases, sure, but in general Druid20 is at least comparable to almost any Druid/PrC build you can come up with.)
smrtgmp
09-26-06, 03:10 AM How in the world did you do that to a bard?I imagine by combining it with sublime chord, ur-priest and a mystic theurge type class (possibly folchyon lyricist).
angryman
09-26-06, 10:48 AM Maxed use magical device, lots of charisma and a pile of gold.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
countbubba 09-24-06, 06:37 PM	Which base spellcasting class, if only basic races are allowed, has the most potential? including classes like warlock, wu jen, and shugenja, from non-PHB books.
Comfort_in_Insanity 09-24-06, 11:29 PM	I'd say wizard, from sheer versatility. If, on the other hand, by potential you mean "Ability-to-blow-stuff-the-****-up", Warmage.
Horatio Hornblower 09-24-06, 11:43 PM	I like playing wizards, but I'd say cleric has the most potential. Good spells, don't need a spellbook, pray up what you need for the day and pretty good in combat. I think the spirit shaman has an interesting way of getting spells. Kind of a cleric and sorcerer mix. That's better than the favored soul.
Bopple 09-24-06, 11:49 PM	As far as potential goes, it's definitely Archivist.
SageBahamut 09-25-06, 12:36 AM	Didn't someone post something about how an Archivist with a Warlock cohort becomes horrifying?
DragonBringerX 09-25-06, 12:50 AM	Artificer...hands down. now i know he isnt a "full caster", but when he hits 15th level, he could make a rod of metor swarms (50 charges)...no prob. let the rain of fire begin...lololololololol :evillaugh:
Molot 09-25-06, 02:26 AM	Best caster to do what? To heal and buff - Cleric To have arcane library - Wizard To know some random spells with adjustable uses in a day - Sorcerer To cast divine and get wings - Favored Soul To blow up things - Warmage To manipulate - Beguiler To get 9th level arcane spells, 9th level divine spells and +16 BAB at 20'th level - Bard :schemes: ... and so on.
Bopple 09-25-06, 07:30 AM	Artificer...hands down. now i know he isnt a "full caster", but when he hits 15th level, he could make a rod of metor swarms (50 charges)...no prob. let the rain of fire begin...lololololololol :evillaugh: As you said, Artificer is not really a caster. But I agree Artificer can be way too powerful.
Molot 09-25-06, 08:26 AM	Artificier is powerfull if he has time. In faster adventure Wizard is more flexible In even more rapid one both are much weaker When "without equipment" intro comes to play, only cleric-like and spontaneous are any use at all. If you don't have even a time to rest, Warlock (race that do not need much rest) seems to be best option... Speed matters :)
Bopple 09-25-06, 08:32 AM	Yeah, but the original question is about potential - that means you are under optimal condition.
Ut-Napishtim 09-25-06, 09:01 AM	Dude, the caster with the most power and versatility is the Druid, hands down. Take Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning, that gives you +4 Strength and Constitution on your summoned allies that can be conjured spontaneously. On top of that you have healing, wildshape, offensive spells, reincarnation, good saves plus decent combat skills and armor and weapon selections. Oh, did I mention the animal companions? There's really no two ways about it IMHO. :twocents:
Molot 09-25-06, 09:24 AM	Yeah, but the original question is about potential - that means you are under optimal condition. potential 1. Anything that may be possible; a possibility; potentially. Nothing about optimal conditions in that small word ;) For me "potential" should be "measured" in all possible conditions. When robbed of all equipment, Sorcerer has much more potential than Artificier or Wizard... potentially ;) When thinking about optimal conditions - in optimal conditions for a character any spells (or any action at all) are unneeded :P Optimally, he does not need to care about his wealth, money, food, safety nor love, he has it all. So spells are just for fun. Thus, in optimal conditions bardic spells has most potential :schemes:
Bopple 09-25-06, 09:33 AM	You know what he and I meant. Let's not play ambiguity fallacy game.
angryman 09-25-06, 10:15 AM	Wizards fall prey to DM tricks more than other casters. "Your spellbook has been taken." They rely on components and take a lot of time to study, research and learn new spells. However with spell mastery & eschew components, wizards can mitigate this somewhat. They also make good item crafters. Druids/Clerics just wake up, tweak their selection and they're ready. Bards/Sorcerers have an inherently limited selection, but they have limitless choice within that. From core, then, I'd go with wizard, but I'm biased. Maybe just for me, wizards are more flexible, thus more interesting...
Salla 09-25-06, 01:20 PM	My money's on the cleric. Heavy Armor Proficiency, decent HP, decent BAB to start. Access to every spell on the cleric list. Access to domain powers, such as War for a Martial Weapon Proficiency and Focus, and Magic so he can use scrolls, wands, and staves. It takes four feats, but Extra Turning + Divine Metamagic + Extend Spell + Persistent Spell + Divine Power is a fun combo. Turn Undead is incredibly useful at low levels, and when it becomes less so at high levels, you have Divine Feats or Divine Metamagic to use them with.
mvincent 09-25-06, 03:08 PM	Wizard
smrtgmp 09-25-06, 03:16 PM	I prefer the wizard, though they all have their charms.
Grod_The_Giant 09-25-06, 03:21 PM	for damage-dealing... warmage. No two-ways about it. Almost all core/CA damaging spells on his list (so good damage-dealing versitility), no preperation, able to cast in armor. for utility... wizard, since he knows lots of spells
Echo_that_Pains 09-25-06, 03:32 PM	I am going to agree with the people that said cleric. When you factor in the Divine Metamagic there really is no limit. The only difference between a cleric or wizard is the effect of your castable spells, but as a cleric you would be able to do anything to your spells that a wizard could for MUCH less cost. For a wizard to cast a maximized spell (or whatever metamagic you wish) it requires a spell slot X levels up. For a cleric to cast a maximized spell, it requires 1 turning attempt for each level increase. The level adjustment on a wizard limits what level of spell his feats can effect, while a cleric can use metamagic feats on 9th level spells and just spend a turn attempt instead of increasing the level. On top of the spell casting, the BAB/armor/saves/etc put this one over the top.
crowclub 09-25-06, 03:43 PM	Dude, the caster with the most power and versatility is the Druid, hands down. Take Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning, that gives you +4 Strength and Constitution on your summoned allies that can be conjured spontaneously. On top of that you have healing, wildshape, offensive spells, reincarnation, good saves plus decent combat skills and armor and weapon selections. Oh, did I mention the animal companions? There's really no two ways about it IMHO. :twocents: I agree, but prefere to play a Sorcerer! Sorcerer's are greeeat!
smrtgmp 09-25-06, 03:53 PM	They're certainly a lot of fun, especially when making a themed caster.
Silverclaw 09-25-06, 04:15 PM	Wisards surely can be great... but in a campaign where you dont know much about what are gonna happen (and therefore dont know what spells to prepare) a Sorcerer are often better. of course there are also the divine magic... but i think it is hard to compare divine and arcane magic since i is so different...
smrtgmp 09-25-06, 04:27 PM	...but in a campaign where you dont know much about what are gonna happen (and therefore dont know what spells to prepare) a Sorcerer are often better...This seems to be a common take on the matter, but I disagree. There are a few keys to success when you arent sure whats coming. First, prepare versitile spells that can be useful in nearly any situations. Second, a healthy compliment of scrolls (you have scribe scroll for a reason) really helps fill in the gaps. Use them for utility spells that arent heavily CL dependant and fill your slots with spells you're sure you'll be able to use. Third, you can leave some of your slots unprepared so that you can fill them as needed with 15 minutes of study. I generally prepare all my slots from my highest two levels of spells and then leave one slot open at each of the lower levels. So if I'm 9th level, I'll fill my 4th and 5th level slots and then leave one open at levels 1, 2, and 3. Finally, divination is a wizard's best friend. Put it to good use to glean some information about what you will be facing in the future. High knowledge checks help a lot in this department as well. Now obviously a sorcerer takes less thought to play on the fly, but a wizard is hardly lacking in that department.
Osedox 09-25-06, 07:33 PM	It all depends on what you are looking for. I think Wizards have a higher potential for power, but I dont like to deal with wizard hassles. I think Sorcerers are almost as good, but they arent going to surprise you very often. With a Sorcerer everyone knows your limits. I just thought of a rather stupid metaphore because i have been watching way too much Topgear lately. A sorcerer is like a Mercedes McLaren, fast, powerfull, hardly any maintenence, and rather generic (or as generic as that kind of thing can be.) A Wizard is a Renault F1, scary fast, powerful as hell, but it takes like 10 people just to start the engine, and the engine gets re-built after every race. In the end I choose Sorcerers most of the time, and if given the choice I would probably choose the Mercedes, because Im lazy.
CryoSilver 09-25-06, 07:46 PM	Druid
bpatel02 09-25-06, 09:09 PM	I think you all have missed it. Cicumstance is important, party make up is important, but I think the most powerful spell casters depends on what levels you are talking about. I am playing in a campaign where we started at 1st level and are now average 13th level. Now, of course this is specific to our campaign, but not completly. From 1-5th level, the druid is very good. Wizards and Clerics have not got there great spells yet and druids get really sick monsters to summon; combined with the spells from the Spell Compendium they are nasty low levels. However, than the wizards/clerics catch up becuase of there nasty spells at higher levels. At higher levels, I don't know which is better, wizard or cleric. I think part of it has to do with the DM as well as the world. Two good examples of this are polymorph vs call ally. My DM says you have to have actually seen a monster in order to polymorph into it. This limits the spells potency signifigantly. On the other hand, when using Planar Ally (6th level version), the DM let the player choose what to call; a decision he regreted when a Ghaele showed up when we were all 11th level.
Mkire 09-26-06, 12:02 AM	Best caster to do what? To heal and buff - Cleric To have arcane library - Wizard To know some random spells with adjustable uses in a day - Sorcerer To cast divine and get wings - Favored Soul To blow up things - Warmage To manipulate - Beguiler To get 9th level arcane spells, 9th level divine spells and +16 BAB at 20'th level - Bard :schemes: ... and so on. How in the world did you do that to a bard?
tiercel 09-26-06, 12:46 AM	Overall, I'd have to say druid. The spell list is like a built in cleric/wiz mixture. The vigor line of spells mean you can heal just as well as a cleric out of combat, and the number of attack spells you have mean that you can make things go "boom" with alacrity if needed. You have a respectable toolbox of special effects. You have the best summoning list in the game, and you can do it spontaneously. If you summon animals, you can buff them nicely (e.g. animal growth), and the upper-level elemental summons make very nice grappler tanks, not to mention short-range scouts (due to high fly speed or earth glide). You have "divine inheritance" -- every spell on the Druid list is yours. Any time a book is allowed in the campaign, your choices multiply instantly and without effort or cost. If Spell Compendium is allowed in your game you can virtually laugh at a wizard's so-called versatility -- even with a jam-packed Boccob's blessed book, is the wizard ever going to have a number of choices like what you do? If you ever need really big area of effect spells, it's hard to beat the druid list: entangle, spike growth, spike stones, control winds, control water, control weather, sunburst -- druids are kings of the army vs army battlefield. Need to sneak around in a way that's hard to notice? Be a flying "weapons platform" raining down magical destruction? Jump into melee? That's right, you can do it all as a full spellcaster, and without necessarily using any of your spells -- that's what Wildshape is for. (You can, of course, boost your Wildshape with spells, but you don't need spells or Persistent Divine Metamagic cheese to acquit yourself well in melee.) Even before Wildshape kicks in, your trusty animal companion is almost like having another fighter in the party while you cast spells in armor with respectable Hit Dice and two good saves. Additionally, your skill list ain't shabby for a full spellcaster. Sure, the egghead wizard might end up with more skill points because of his stratospheric Int score (and to be fair, Knowledge skills are worth a lot), but you get Spot and Listen and Survival -- all of which operate off your highest stat. (Survival by itself may not be worth so much, but Druids make pretty awesome trackers.) And that's not all! You can befriend wild animals, move through undergrowth easily, avoid being tracked, scorn fey enchantments, laugh in the face of poisons, disguise yourself at will (when, for whatever reason, you aren't in animal form), and cease the aging process itself, all without using your spells. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying that a Druid is better than any other spellcaster for any and every given situation. I'm just saying overall, a Druid can do a heckuva lot of things, and do many of them near the level of (or even sometimes better) than a specialist in those areas -- heal like a cleric, blow things up and utility like a mage, scout like a thief, fight like a warrior. If you really need a spellcasting specialist in one of those areas, then by all means take it (cleric, sor/wiz, beguiler, war-type cleric or Eldritch Knight-style gish), but it's hard to go wrong with a decent Druid. To cap it off, not only does a Druid not need PrCs to make it viable, there really aren't that many PrCs that don't actually dilute the class. (You can make a few cases, sure, but in general Druid20 is at least comparable to almost any Druid/PrC build you can come up with.)
smrtgmp 09-26-06, 03:10 AM	How in the world did you do that to a bard?I imagine by combining it with sublime chord, ur-priest and a mystic theurge type class (possibly folchyon lyricist).
angryman 09-26-06, 10:48 AM	Maxed use magical device, lots of charisma and a pile of gold.