Best Spells By Level?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Spells By Level?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JobieJones
12-19-07, 02:20 PM So I'm sure there is already a thread out there, but I can't find it, but I'm wondering what the most powerful spells are for Sorcerers and Wizards. I'm playing in an epic campaign soon and I'm trying to help a friend get the best spells he can. A link to a good thread or some spell suggestions would be great! Thanks!

-JJ
Rulebook
12-19-07, 02:29 PM dude, just enter the cheat code and get all the best spells anyway!

oh wait... this isnt the computer game version, so there -arent- any "best" spells. its all in how you use them and when.
RobbyPants
12-19-07, 03:05 PM Well, there's always Logic Ninja's guide to Wizards: being Batman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500). Much of his first post consists of some of the best core wizard spells.
Estand
12-19-07, 03:11 PM It really depends on:
What roll does the wizard play? Offence? Party Booster? Utility?..
How does the group play? Rushes in? Slow methodical? Will they protect you?
What's the campaign like? RolePlay with intrigue? Lots of combat?
Who are the foes? Wizards? Priest? Monsters? outer planars? fighters?
Can you prepare for the encounter? or is time to short? how often can you re-memorize?
Also.. what books are you allowed to use? my group is limited to PHB. If we want other spells, permission must be specifically granted.

You might want to just let the other guy play with it. Sometimes the best way to learn is to make mistakes.
Essex
12-20-07, 11:14 AM You ask for the best spells. Best at what? If you've got to open a locked door, then knock would be the best spell. If you want to travel quickly to distant cities then teleport without error is the best spell. The idea of a best spell is highly subjective.
Avatar of Kokusho
12-20-07, 11:31 AM Epic, you say? Okay.

Offensive: Let's hope your friend decided to get some metamagic feats. Magic Missile, while only a first level spell, hits anything on sight and has no saving throw or attack roll involved. Slap Twin Spell and Maximize Spell on it, and at the cost of a 8th level spell slot, you deal 100 points of non-reducable damage, because there are only two things that I know of that are immune to force damage: a tenth level void incarnate and a force dragon.
Ray of Clumsiness: Dex damage, aka the Dragon Smasher. Not nearly as cheesy as Shivering Touch (I don't go there and neither should you) but effective nonetheless. Maximized is nice. (Spell Compendium)
Orb Of Whatever. Orbs are good, because they don't allow spell resistance (conjuration FTW) but they do require a ranged touch attack roll, and their range isn't so hot. Creatures usually don't have immunities to sonic or force energy.
Ray of Entropy: Its effect isn't the best in the world but it works out. (SC)

Defensive: Here's the cheese, sort of.
Greater Blink: Allows controlled blinking. If you have access to quickened spells or other spells that can be cast as a swift action, you can do this: use your standard action to ready an action to blink out when your enemy swings at you, and use swift action to cast. Admittedly, you can't keep this up for long...but see below.
Energy Immunity. Now you really can center that meteor swarm on yourself!
Ironguard. One of the dumbest spells in the book, it basically says "I'm immune to weapons."
Forcecage: aka, The Warrior Nerf. Keeps in other creatures if you can block teleportation.
Celerity/Greater Celerity: Back-door spell, as in get yourself a way out.
MDJ: Surest way to make your enemy REALLY mad; overuse of this usually results in a flood of enemies who use it as well.

General-use:
Brilliant Blade. Useless against undead, very nice against heavily armored beatsticks bent on doing you harm.
Wish: Of course you want this; it's Wish.
Vegepygmy
12-20-07, 12:08 PM Magic Missile, while only a first level spell, hits anything on sight and has no saving throw or attack roll involved. Slap Twin Spell and Maximize Spell on it, and at the cost of a 8th level spell slot, you deal 100 points of non-reducable damage...I think you mean 50 points. Maximized magic missile = 25 points, Twinned (x2) = 50 points. No?

And an Empowered magic missile is, on average, actually better than a Maximized one. Average damage = 17.5 points, Empowered (x1.5) = 26.25 points at 1 lower spell level. :)
RobbyPants
12-20-07, 12:12 PM Also, if this is an epic game, you should have lots of scrolls at your disposal. With the vast number of spell slots available to you, as well as scrolls, you should hopfully have spells handy for many situations. Unless you've been running around all day fighting stuff, you should have an answer to most anything that comes up.

And if you're running short on answers, keep a Rope Trick, Teleport, or Greater Teleport handy to come up with a new set of answers!
Avatar of Kokusho
12-20-07, 12:29 PM You know, I was thinking of Intensify when I wrote that Oops. I don't know if his friend can manage that one, though.

Oopsie, my bad.

Still, never underestimate Magic Missile. Just watch out for the epic BBEG wearing a Brooch of Shielding. >.<

I agree on the scrolls bit, because in my epic party, I recently got chewed out by the party warrior for NOT having a particular scroll...embarrassing.

Assay Spell Resistance is another goodie, if you think you need it.
JobieJones
12-20-07, 05:13 PM Thanks for all the help!
Estand
12-21-07, 11:53 AM Empowered Magic Missle: 3rd level slot
((d4 avg x 1.5) +1) x5
total= 23.75
compared to fireball/lightining bolt=
5d6
3.5x5= 17.5
8d6
3.5x8= 28
or Haste for the party!!! crap did you miss the damage potential wasting a 3rd level slot! Or Slow to reduce damage to the party...

Maximed MM: 4th level slot
total=25
compare that to Enervation or Bestow Curse which reduces the damage to your party.

and if you do both Empower/Maximize = 6th slot
(((d4 avg x0.5)+4) +1) x5 = 31.25
Maximized Fireball = 60
Disintegrate (2d6 avg x 11)= 42 or (d6 avg x5)=17.5
but there goes True Seeing or any of the Mass Stat boosting...
narack
12-21-07, 12:37 PM Prestidigitation, does nearly every thing
create water is deadly with a strong grapple on a goblin and puttign your hand on his mouth (imagine the rest)
Pitiless_Interfector
12-21-07, 11:32 PM because there are only two things that I know of that are immune to force damage: a tenth level void incarnate and a force dragon.

Oh, and absolutely anyone who casts the 4th-level wizard spell forceward on themselves. At epic levels, life sucks balls. Okay, you're uber-powerful... BO-ring! Your gear gets more happy time than your character, for Christ's sake.

It's basically a game of "Is there a save-or-die my DM forgot to neutralize (via appropriate creature abilities or protective magic) during his pregame encounter prep? Oop, forgot to cast death ward or ray deflection, Twinned Split-Ray Intensified Enervation!

Strictly-speaking, save-or-dies suck too. The only way to f***ing damage anything is to use no-save, no-SR, no descriptor, no energy-damage spells [which are very, very few in number].

Epic sucks. Play levels 7 through 12, and don't use celerity, polymorph, or teleport. Replace all fighters with warblades, clerics with bards, and druids with commoners (must... punish... motherf*cking... MUCHKINS!) Get rid of that stupid spontaneous metamagic restriction, give sorcerers the spells known of favored souls and a bonus reserve feat every 4 levels, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (religion, the planes, history, nobility and royalty, dungeoneering), and Sense Motive as class skills (4 + Int modifier). There! You're done! Or if you want to go the whole nine yards, replace spellcasting with psionic manifesting, and just rename and reflavor everything so the game-world inhabitants don't notice. Such is the pathway to the perfect game.
Vegepygmy
12-22-07, 01:47 AM Empowered Magic Missle: 3rd level slot
((d4 avg x 1.5) +1) x5

Except that's not how it works.

Player's Handbook, page 93
For example, an empowered magic missile deals 1-1/2 times its normal damage (roll 1d4+1 and multiply the result by 1-1/2 for each missile).

total= 23.75total= 26.25
Avatar of Kokusho
12-22-07, 07:51 AM Forceward's easy enough to get by. Just dispel the stupid thing.

Epic doesn't suck unless your DM intentionally makes it suck, or you're not creative enough.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JobieJones 12-19-07, 02:20 PM	So I'm sure there is already a thread out there, but I can't find it, but I'm wondering what the most powerful spells are for Sorcerers and Wizards. I'm playing in an epic campaign soon and I'm trying to help a friend get the best spells he can. A link to a good thread or some spell suggestions would be great! Thanks! -JJ
Rulebook 12-19-07, 02:29 PM	dude, just enter the cheat code and get all the best spells anyway! oh wait... this isnt the computer game version, so there -arent- any "best" spells. its all in how you use them and when.
RobbyPants 12-19-07, 03:05 PM	Well, there's always Logic Ninja's guide to Wizards: being Batman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500). Much of his first post consists of some of the best core wizard spells.
Estand 12-19-07, 03:11 PM	It really depends on: What roll does the wizard play? Offence? Party Booster? Utility?.. How does the group play? Rushes in? Slow methodical? Will they protect you? What's the campaign like? RolePlay with intrigue? Lots of combat? Who are the foes? Wizards? Priest? Monsters? outer planars? fighters? Can you prepare for the encounter? or is time to short? how often can you re-memorize? Also.. what books are you allowed to use? my group is limited to PHB. If we want other spells, permission must be specifically granted. You might want to just let the other guy play with it. Sometimes the best way to learn is to make mistakes.
Essex 12-20-07, 11:14 AM	You ask for the best spells. Best at what? If you've got to open a locked door, then knock would be the best spell. If you want to travel quickly to distant cities then teleport without error is the best spell. The idea of a best spell is highly subjective.
Avatar of Kokusho 12-20-07, 11:31 AM	Epic, you say? Okay. Offensive: Let's hope your friend decided to get some metamagic feats. Magic Missile, while only a first level spell, hits anything on sight and has no saving throw or attack roll involved. Slap Twin Spell and Maximize Spell on it, and at the cost of a 8th level spell slot, you deal 100 points of non-reducable damage, because there are only two things that I know of that are immune to force damage: a tenth level void incarnate and a force dragon. Ray of Clumsiness: Dex damage, aka the Dragon Smasher. Not nearly as cheesy as Shivering Touch (I don't go there and neither should you) but effective nonetheless. Maximized is nice. (Spell Compendium) Orb Of Whatever. Orbs are good, because they don't allow spell resistance (conjuration FTW) but they do require a ranged touch attack roll, and their range isn't so hot. Creatures usually don't have immunities to sonic or force energy. Ray of Entropy: Its effect isn't the best in the world but it works out. (SC) Defensive: Here's the cheese, sort of. Greater Blink: Allows controlled blinking. If you have access to quickened spells or other spells that can be cast as a swift action, you can do this: use your standard action to ready an action to blink out when your enemy swings at you, and use swift action to cast. Admittedly, you can't keep this up for long...but see below. Energy Immunity. Now you really can center that meteor swarm on yourself! Ironguard. One of the dumbest spells in the book, it basically says "I'm immune to weapons." Forcecage: aka, The Warrior Nerf. Keeps in other creatures if you can block teleportation. Celerity/Greater Celerity: Back-door spell, as in get yourself a way out. MDJ: Surest way to make your enemy REALLY mad; overuse of this usually results in a flood of enemies who use it as well. General-use: Brilliant Blade. Useless against undead, very nice against heavily armored beatsticks bent on doing you harm. Wish: Of course you want this; it's Wish.
Vegepygmy 12-20-07, 12:08 PM	Magic Missile, while only a first level spell, hits anything on sight and has no saving throw or attack roll involved. Slap Twin Spell and Maximize Spell on it, and at the cost of a 8th level spell slot, you deal 100 points of non-reducable damage...I think you mean 50 points. Maximized magic missile = 25 points, Twinned (x2) = 50 points. No? And an Empowered magic missile is, on average, actually better than a Maximized one. Average damage = 17.5 points, Empowered (x1.5) = 26.25 points at 1 lower spell level. :)
RobbyPants 12-20-07, 12:12 PM	Also, if this is an epic game, you should have lots of scrolls at your disposal. With the vast number of spell slots available to you, as well as scrolls, you should hopfully have spells handy for many situations. Unless you've been running around all day fighting stuff, you should have an answer to most anything that comes up. And if you're running short on answers, keep a Rope Trick, Teleport, or Greater Teleport handy to come up with a new set of answers!
Avatar of Kokusho 12-20-07, 12:29 PM	You know, I was thinking of Intensify when I wrote that Oops. I don't know if his friend can manage that one, though. Oopsie, my bad. Still, never underestimate Magic Missile. Just watch out for the epic BBEG wearing a Brooch of Shielding. >.< I agree on the scrolls bit, because in my epic party, I recently got chewed out by the party warrior for NOT having a particular scroll...embarrassing. Assay Spell Resistance is another goodie, if you think you need it.
JobieJones 12-20-07, 05:13 PM	Thanks for all the help!
Estand 12-21-07, 11:53 AM	Empowered Magic Missle: 3rd level slot ((d4 avg x 1.5) +1) x5 total= 23.75 compared to fireball/lightining bolt= 5d6 3.5x5= 17.5 8d6 3.5x8= 28 or Haste for the party!!! crap did you miss the damage potential wasting a 3rd level slot! Or Slow to reduce damage to the party... Maximed MM: 4th level slot total=25 compare that to Enervation or Bestow Curse which reduces the damage to your party. and if you do both Empower/Maximize = 6th slot (((d4 avg x0.5)+4) +1) x5 = 31.25 Maximized Fireball = 60 Disintegrate (2d6 avg x 11)= 42 or (d6 avg x5)=17.5 but there goes True Seeing or any of the Mass Stat boosting...
narack 12-21-07, 12:37 PM	Prestidigitation, does nearly every thing create water is deadly with a strong grapple on a goblin and puttign your hand on his mouth (imagine the rest)
Pitiless_Interfector 12-21-07, 11:32 PM	because there are only two things that I know of that are immune to force damage: a tenth level void incarnate and a force dragon. Oh, and absolutely anyone who casts the 4th-level wizard spell forceward on themselves. At epic levels, life sucks balls. Okay, you're uber-powerful... BO-ring! Your gear gets more happy time than your character, for Christ's sake. It's basically a game of "Is there a save-or-die my DM forgot to neutralize (via appropriate creature abilities or protective magic) during his pregame encounter prep? Oop, forgot to cast death ward or ray deflection, Twinned Split-Ray Intensified Enervation! Strictly-speaking, save-or-dies suck too. The only way to f**ing damage anything is to use no-save, no-SR, no descriptor, no energy-damage spells [which are very, very few in number]. Epic sucks. Play levels 7 through 12, and don't use celerity, polymorph, or teleport. Replace all fighters with warblades, clerics with bards, and druids with commoners (must... punish... motherfcking... MUCHKINS!) Get rid of that stupid spontaneous metamagic restriction, give sorcerers the spells known of favored souls and a bonus reserve feat every 4 levels, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (religion, the planes, history, nobility and royalty, dungeoneering), and Sense Motive as class skills (4 + Int modifier). There! You're done! Or if you want to go the whole nine yards, replace spellcasting with psionic manifesting, and just rename and reflavor everything so the game-world inhabitants don't notice. Such is the pathway to the perfect game.
Vegepygmy 12-22-07, 01:47 AM	Empowered Magic Missle: 3rd level slot ((d4 avg x 1.5) +1) x5 Except that's not how it works. Player's Handbook, page 93 For example, an empowered magic missile deals 1-1/2 times its normal damage (roll 1d4+1 and multiply the result by 1-1/2 for each missile). total= 23.75total= 26.25
Avatar of Kokusho 12-22-07, 07:51 AM	Forceward's easy enough to get by. Just dispel the stupid thing. Epic doesn't suck unless your DM intentionally makes it suck, or you're not creative enough.