Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TrackStar 08-07-05, 08:00 AM	(It is a Human/Vampire BTW.) I am a human with 7th level arcane wizard casting and 2nd level divine druid casting. (1druid/3human paragon/3wizard/10geomancer) I have Greater Spell Focus in Enchantments and Necro. and Great Spell Penetration. (doesnt matter against Vampires though) What are the best spells to use for this battle? I also have a +10(total enhancments) comp long bow for the battle if it matters. Along with abunch of good magic items. I dont think that matters though, I just really need the best possable spells for this fight. I have access to ALL books. :) THANKS GUYS! :D (Oh, and this Vampire has really good items on him)
Pryrates 08-07-05, 08:32 AM	why is a 9th level party taking on a 20th level villian? oh well, heres my advice, get creative buy a good deal of the best type of healing potion you can afford and a good many surringes. fil the surringes with the healing potion then use telekinesis to hurl these little projectiles at the vampire. It shoul be a ranged touch attack which will be a lot easier for you to hit then his regular AC and it will do as much damage to him/ surringe as it would heal you. Of course in the long run nothing really beats having a mace of disruption right now in the hands of your meat shield......
TrackStar 08-07-05, 08:37 AM	Sorry, I updated the post after you posted. I am a lvl 17 character. I am pretty stacked in abilities and armour and weapons. I got seperated from my party and it is just me vs the vampire. So it is going to come down to spells and tactics or I am toast. ;) Any spells go that are within my caster lvl. (7th arcane/2nd divine.druid)
Seeker95 08-07-05, 09:56 AM	Assuming the DM plays the vampire correctly, you're still toast. Solo against a 20th level wizard vampire is a pretty big difference. You're going up agaisnt a CR22 creature that should be at least as smart as you. Of course, far too many DMs play their monsters as idiots, so maybe you will survive. Since you can't cast sunburst, you'll have to rely on spells that get you out of there rather than that defeat the vampire. Flight to survive. Fight to be toast.
TrackStar 08-07-05, 10:13 AM	I agree, however, I am dead set in killing this thing so I would like to know my options if possable... SO LETS HEAR EM FOLKS! :D
Lord shadow35 08-07-05, 11:40 AM	Command undead, Control undead, disentigrate and Disern location. Acid orb empowered should be a nasty suprise for the vampire to deal with. Since they don't have a con score.
smrtgmp 08-07-05, 01:58 PM	I agree with LS35 with regards to disintegrate. It is an excellent spell against undead, especially those with class levels with low will saves, as they have no con bonus with which to bolster it. He'll probably have some sort of spells to provide concealment or the like (as these are probably your best defense against rays), so trueseeing is a no brainer (but that goes for most combats against a spell caster, IMO). Finally, make sure your DM knows that rays cannot be turned by spell turning, which specifically states that it only turns targeted spells, not spells that have an area or an effect. All rays have an effect.
Seeker95 08-07-05, 06:13 PM	Finally, make sure your DM knows that rays cannot be turned by spell turning, which specifically states that it only turns targeted spells, not spells that have an area or an effect. All rays have an effect.Rather than "making sure your DM knows" I would recommend that you learn how your DM rules. I disagree with the literalist interpretation offered by smrtgmp here. Rays are inherently targeted spells, and view the "Effect" entry merely a semantic difference due to the wide variance in exactly what effect a target will suffer when struck by any given ray.
smrtgmp 08-07-05, 10:22 PM	Rays are inherently targeted spells, and view the "Effect" entry merely a semantic difference due to the wide variance in exactly what effect a target will suffer when struck by any given ray.This is incorrect. The terms effect and target are game mechanics. They are used to show how various spells and the like interact with eachother and their surroundings. Just as burst and spread have a set meaning, so do target and effect. Furthermore, spell turning specifically states: Spell Turning <snip> Spells and spell-like effects targeted on you are turned back upon the original caster. The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target. Effect and area spells are not affected. Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells. Now take a look at disintegrate. Disintegrate Transmutation Level: Destruction 7, Sor/Wiz 6 Components: V, S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Effect: Ray Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude partial (object) Spell Resistance: YesIt is clearly an effect spell, and spell turning explicitly states that effect spells are not turned. You're free to run your game as you see fit, but your take on this matter is a house rule (not that there's anything wrong with that).
TrackStar 08-08-05, 03:33 AM	Could I use "Entice Gift" from BoVD to make him give me his spell book? Would this make it so he cant cast on me anymore?
TrackStar 08-08-05, 03:37 AM	What about Power Word Blind? Cant cast on what you cant see right? Or can Vampires get around that?
TrackStar 08-08-05, 03:40 AM	Instead of Magic Jar, I am thinking the 7th lvl spell "Amber Sarcophagus" from Exalted Deeds! No save! MUHAHAHA! Any draw backs?
CaoSlayer 08-08-05, 06:36 AM	without a doubt, the best spell to have as a vampire are the teleport ones, since you can teleport into a safe place if you are caught by the sunlight.
Lord shadow35 08-08-05, 12:27 PM	Entice gift and power word blind are useless against undead creatures. They are mind affecting.
Jimbo19 08-08-05, 02:30 PM	Cr22? More like 28. Vampire template is +8. If he is a 20th lvl wiz, with the vampire template your screwed. If you have spell turning, by all means get it up. If you have a way to get him during the day, do it. dont fight him when he chosses the time, EVER. If he comes to you run. go to him, with a plan in mind, and if it goes south get away. taking this guy down while you are sperated from your group sounds cool, but the only magic bullet is disintagrate. do you have true strike and disintagrate memorized? do you have time to mem them? Do you have sudden empower or sudden max? If you have all these, and you can detect undead, and you have buffed up dex, and imp initiative, you might could beat him. Win initiative, quicken true strike, sudden empower or max disintagrate for either 42d6 or the sudden max for 168 hps. Make sure you have true seeing up, you dex buffed way up to win initiative. If he wins initiative he will time stop, buff and prolly sculpt AMF around himself and walk up to you, and just suck you dry. But then you would get the +8 vampire template, which is very nice for wizards. I got bit with a 12th lvl human wiz. Too early for me so I got cured. Oh ya and last but not least, protection from evil. Remeber that little lvl 1 spell? It will make you immune to his dominate attack. If I were him, I would love your visit, and use you to take out the rest of your friends. the start of a new and overly powerful coven of vampires, all it takes is you to lose. Run away.
penguin_16 08-08-05, 04:10 PM	What id do is get lots of disintergrates, and blast him with them. Then, there are two options 1) have teleport memorized and if you get to low health teleport out. 2) have contingency cast on yourself so that when you get near death teleport comes into action and moves you to a town/stronghold etc. hope it helps
Purkake 08-08-05, 04:10 PM	Read, read, read, read the book ;) SRD: Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature +2. Planeshifting to the para/quasi(dont remember)elemental plane of radiance would be eeevil. But hight level wizards are baaaad.
TrackStar 08-08-05, 04:29 PM	Entice gift and power word blind are useless against undead creatures. They are mind affecting. Darn... :P Cr22? More like 28. Vampire template is +8. If he is a 20th lvl wiz, with the vampire template your screwed. I really think with timeing and the win of the initiative and and some good saves on my part (which I have very awesome saves) I can pull this off! (I'll post my stats soon! If you have spell turning, by all means get it up. If you have a way to get him during the day, do it. dont fight him when he chosses the time, EVER. If he comes to you run. go to him, with a plan in mind, and if it goes south get away. taking this guy down while you are sperated from your group sounds cool, but the only magic bullet is disintagrate. Well, we ended last game with the rolling of initiative. I won that atleast. ;) I don't think I'll have a chance to get spell turning up, but I will try. do you have true strike and disintagrate memorized? do you have time to mem them? Do you have sudden empower or sudden max? [quote] Yes too disintigrate and true strike, no too sudden empower or sudden max. [quote]If you have all these, and you can detect undead, and you have buffed up dex, and imp initiative, you might could beat him. I have a dex over 20 thanks to gloves of dex +6 :D Win initiative, quicken true strike, sudden empower or max disintagrate for either 42d6 or the sudden max for 168 hps. Make sure you have true seeing up, you dex buffed way up to win initiative. I would probley beat him in one round with that, too bad I can't do it! :P If he wins initiative he will time stop, buff and prolly sculpt AMF around himself and walk up to you, and just suck you dry. But then you would get the +8 vampire template, which is very nice for wizards. I got bit with a 12th lvl human wiz. Too early for me so I got cured. My DM thinks you cant cast any harmful spells on a person while they are in timestop, I used to think that too. I haven't disagreed with him yet though. Oh ya and last but not least, protection from evil. Remeber that little lvl 1 spell? It will make you immune to his dominate attack. I have that one! :) If I were him, I would love your visit, and use you to take out the rest of your friends. the start of a new and overly powerful coven of vampires, all it takes is you to lose. This is just me and him, he allrdy bit my brothers character and I am trying to kill him before my brother is under his control and he can use him against me and the rest of the party. This was a split second decision. Harsh of me, but it could be well worth it! Run away. Only if he gets me low on health! Then I teleport! :P
Scion of Coldshard 08-08-05, 04:46 PM	You have contingency right? Make sure it is set to something good ;/ Disentegrate is good, but you 'must' make sure he doesnt touch you. A few negative levels and you wont be able to do anything effective anymore (you'll lose a bunch of spells and wont be able to hit even with touch attacks). Limited wish to rain down holy water on him might give you a round or two while he gets rid of the problem ;) It will at least do him some major damage. Fire shield and displacement will be your friends. Spell turning is also a necissary. Have fun ;) lol
penguin_16 08-08-05, 04:49 PM	Hey! Then I teleport! That was my idea You have contingency right? Make sure it is set to something good ;/ And so was that *Mumble rant grumble* :P Phil
TrackStar 08-08-05, 04:57 PM	Here are my Stats: Str: 17 Dex: 21(27 with gloves) **Used tomb of dex +5 Con: 18 Int: 29 (35 with head band) **Used tomb of intellect +5 Wis: 18 Cha: 17 Saves: Fortitude: 21 (11base + 4ability + 5cloak + 1RobeofMagi + 1Stoneofluck) Reflex: 24 (5base + 8ability + 5cloak 2pixiegeomancer + 1RobeofMagi + 1Stoneofluck) Will: 26 (15base + 4ability + 5cloak + 1RobeofMagi + 1Stoneofluck) AC: 36 = 10 + 8Bracers + 8Dex + 5AmuletofNAT + 5ring Need anything else guys?
Kayli 08-08-05, 05:31 PM	If HE successfuly grapples you its all over. Fighting anything that is more powerfull then you by yourself is a very dangerous thing to do. Distance and maximised disintigrate are your freinds in this battle. Time stop is your worst nightmare. He cant cast direct damage spells in during a Time Stop unless their effect does not occure until after the Time stop Goes away. This is the biggest reason for Delayed Blast Fire Ball (DBFb). How sould you like to get hit with upto 6 15d6 Fireballs in one round. If I were controling the Vamp, I would Cast Time Stop, Followed by some Buff Spells (especially to Str), And Finally Dimensional Anchor and then move as close to you as I could. Then when the Time Stop ended Grapple you. Once you are grappled it is all over unless you can beat his grapple check, but thanks to his buffs that should not be likely. Your best bet is to use your initiative Win to Run away, and find your party. You can then tegether Hunt him down, Slay him. Slay your brother who has now become a Vamp, and then True Res him.
Scion of Coldshard 08-08-05, 05:39 PM	lol.. if I was the vamp and following the core it'd go something like this: Disjunction Quickened, maximized (from rod) enervation With his dex he will most likely get initiative, with his powers he might get a surprise round.
Jimbo19 08-08-05, 05:44 PM	your a twink trakstar, no wonder you think you can take him, you probably can. Heh you could do what i said if you had either sudden max or sudden empower. No he cant cast anything harmful on you while in timestop, but he can darn sure buff up. Plus he can cast area spells, and I dont mean just delayed blast fireball. I mean like the the fog that makes you save, or your next will saves are at -10. Cloudkills or anything else that makes it hard for you to move or see. all this while you are doing nothing. Of course your assuming he doesnt just MDJ you, and laugh as all your magic goodies go poof.
TrackStar 08-08-05, 05:57 PM	your a twink trakstar, no wonder you think you can take him, you probably can. Hardly, just lucky that I was able to get ALOT of gold because I got around somthing that the DM didn't think I would be able to get around. Soooo, I went ahead and bought some stuff to help me out. My character is far from "Optimized" but he does have some awesome ability scores and saves thanks to the money I was able to save up since lvl1. Also, I have a feeling he wont MDJ me, I know my DM has a dislike for that spell same as me. Besides... look at my will save, theres no way I wont save on most of my stuff. Also, this Vampire is "twinked" as well, so its fair in that regard.
Lord shadow35 08-08-05, 06:04 PM	Mdj him all spells and effects on him will be automatically dispelled. His magic items will probobly make the save. but you destroy his buffs(known as debuffing) and you disentigrate him Split ray disentigrate him. Game over.
Scion of Coldshard 08-08-05, 06:09 PM	yeah, disjunction sucks. But then I suppose he could shapechange into some massively horrible undead creature. Or gate in some baddies. Or time stop and get a bunch of summon monsters all over you along with teleportation anchor. Or again he could simply just energy drain + quickened enervation and pretty much end the fight right there ;/ (if you suddenly lost your top 7 memorized spells how much harder would this fight be? lol.. oh, and -7 to all of your attack rolls, saves, caster level checks, etc).
Scion of Coldshard 08-08-05, 06:13 PM	Mdj him all spells and effects on him will be automatically dispelled. His magic items will probobly make the save. but you destroy his buffs(known as debuffing) and you disentigrate him Split ray disentigrate him. Game over. being a caster of 7th level arcane spells I dont think he has the disjunction option. Especially if neither he nor the dm likes it. ;)
Lord shadow35 08-08-05, 06:21 PM	Well i just thought of a way you could probably take him out. But if you don't like mdj then try to target dispel him and then hit him with the disentigrates.
Daelyth 08-08-05, 10:32 PM	(It is a Human/Vampire BTW.) I am a human with 7th level arcane wizard casting and 2nd level divine druid casting. (1druid/3human paragon/3wizard/10geomancer) I have Greater Spell Focus in Enchantments and Necro. and Great Spell Penetration. (doesnt matter against Vampires though) What are the best spells to use for this battle? I also have a +10(total enhancments) comp long bow for the battle if it matters. Along with abunch of good magic items. I dont think that matters though, I just really need the best possable spells for this fight. I have access to ALL books. :) THANKS GUYS! :D (Oh, and this Vampire has really good items on him) Dude if your a Paragon from the Epic level handbook you should not have anything to worry about.
Scion of Coldshard 08-08-05, 11:29 PM	Dude if your a Paragon from the Epic level handbook you should not have anything to worry about. he said human paragon 3, not paragon ;)
TrackStar 08-09-05, 01:29 AM	yeah, disjunction sucks. But then I suppose he could shapechange into some massively horrible undead creature. Or gate in some baddies. Or time stop and get a bunch of summon monsters all over you along with teleportation anchor. Or again he could simply just energy drain + quickened enervation and pretty much end the fight right there ;/ (if you suddenly lost your top 7 memorized spells how much harder would this fight be? lol.. oh, and -7 to all of your attack rolls, saves, caster level checks, etc). Is there anything that I might want to polymorph into? I am guessing he would just cast dispell on me though... But if you don't like mdj then try to target dispel him and then hit him with the disentigrates. What will target dispell do to him that will help me? Ruin his buffs?
Scion of Coldshard 08-09-05, 12:23 PM	Is there anything that I might want to polymorph into? I am guessing he would just cast dispell on me though... If you have spell turning up then when he targets you with a dispel it will instead dispel all of his buffs. But, I dont know what you lose from paragon by polymorphing, if anything. I cant seem to figure it out, are you a human? are you undead? I know that you are going up against a vampire. If you are a straight human then does anyone know of any creatures of hd 15 or less it would be good for him to polymorph into? Troll is usually a decent option (high str and con), but you could also try to find something that is very small with a really good dex and change into that. After all, the smaller you are the harder it is for him to hit you ;) What will target dispell do to him that will help me? Ruin his buffs? You would probably need greater dispel and to roll really well. You are likely better off with spell turning and really making him 'want' to greater dispel you ;)
Lord shadow35 08-09-05, 12:25 PM	yes ruin his buff! Get a scroll of time stop. Dispel, use a scroll of time stop and throw area affect spell while your time stoped. They don't go off yet. but they go off after the time stop. like prismatic spray delayed blast fireball...etc
smrtgmp 08-09-05, 04:06 PM	Actually, normal area effect spells will go off when cast in a time stop, they just wont affect anything. You'll need delayed blast fireball (or the delay spell feat, which is horribly overpriced) to pull that off. Time Stop Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 9, Trickery 9 Components: V Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1d4+1 rounds (apparent time); see text This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Normal and magical fire, cold, gas, and the like can still harm you. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends. Most spellcasters use the additional time to improve their defenses, summon allies, or flee from combat. You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature’s possession. You are undetectable while time stop lasts. You cannot enter an area protected by an antimagic field while under the effect of time stop.So, something like a cloudkill would work (if he wasnt a vampire), but prismatic spray would be a waste.
Kayli 08-09-05, 04:22 PM	That is right, but disintigrate cast on the narrow part of the causeway that you happen to be standing on, will take it out, opening a hole under your feet that you will fall down, when the TS ends. You can damage unattended objects during a TS. He can cast force cage or better yet dimensional anchor so that after he grapples you he can drink you dry while you are unable to DD out. This does mean that he has to be able to win the Grapple Checks round after round, but that is what Vampires are ment to do so it should be easy for a Vamp to Grapple a Caster. There are lots of Things other then buffs that he can cast during a TS, and some of them can, dependig on circumstances cause damage after the TS ends
Scion of Coldshard 08-09-05, 04:24 PM	There are lots of Things other then buffs that he can cast during a TS Like I said earlier, summon monsters! ;) You see the bad guy casting and then suddenly you are surrounded on all sides by big nasties who just plain dont like you. Uh oh.
smrtgmp 08-09-05, 04:32 PM	That is right, but disintigrate cast on the narrow part of the causeway that you happen to be standing on, will take it out, opening a hole under your feet that you will fall down, when the TS ends. You can damage unattended objects during a TS. He can cast force cage or better yet dimensional anchor so that after he grapples you he can drink you dry while you are unable to DD out. This does mean that he has to be able to win the Grapple Checks round after round, but that is what Vampires are ment to do so it should be easy for a Vamp to Grapple a Caster. There are lots of Things other then buffs that he can cast during a TS, and some of them can, dependig on circumstances cause damage after the TS endsI'm well aware of what one can accomplish using timestop. I was merely pointing out that blasting them with instantaneous area effect spells wont work. Neither would dimensional anchor, for that matter (unless it was cast prior to the timestop).
Kayli 08-10-05, 01:26 AM	Your Right, what I ment was Dimensional Lock. Very Useful for preventing people from DDing away once you've grappled them.
TrackStar 08-10-05, 10:40 AM	Thanks for your help everyone. I beat the Vampire. Since I caught him by surprise (the DM/vampire didn't think I would even attack) I was able to cast Amber Sarcauphagus on him (after I saved on a Temporal Stasis spell) and then take him into daylight where I had another party member join me (I entombed my brother as well just incase) and we released thewizard/vampire and then killed him with some Greater Slaying arrows. (he was the type of Vampire that could last in sunlight for a little bit.) One last thing. The Vampire template in the MM v3.5 says it has a LA of +5. Wouldn't that make it a lvl 25 character? Thats what I and my DM decided, but people on here were talking about lvl 22... Whats the deal?
Particle 08-10-05, 11:11 AM	He is a NPC, he uses challenge rating. LA is for PCs only. and the CR is only +2 for a vampire
TrackStar 08-10-05, 11:28 AM	I think the CR is +2, but the LAis +5 for a normal Vampire and +8 for an Elite Vampire. Pg. 250-252 of the MM v3.5
TrackStar 08-10-05, 11:31 AM	He is a NPC, he uses challenge rating. LA is for PCs only. and the CR is only +2 for a vampire Thx, I wont tell my DM. hehehehe. I think he just looked at it worng, he usually ets that stuff right.