Best spells for a spellstoring weapon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best spells for a spellstoring weapon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rusc75
11-10-05, 02:28 PM What are the best spells for a spellstoring weapon? For damage or other effects, core and non-core, arcane and divine. Remember, it has to be targetable, so no rays. 0th-3rd level spells only.

For straight damage my suggestions are:

1st level arcane: Shocking Grasp
2nd level arcane: Fell weakened Shocking Grasp
3rd level arcane: Empowered Shocking Grasp or Vampiric Touch depending on caster level.

Divine: Cause Wounds

Any other suggestions? If anybody has got some spectacular or alternative use of spellstoring I'd be very interested.
Kendrick
11-10-05, 02:44 PM Hold Person could be nice, especially if you've got an ally in melee with you to CDG before they get the extra chance to save against it.
Seeker95
11-10-05, 02:53 PM fireball as long as you have immunity to fire! :devil:
Rjo
11-10-05, 03:11 PM Damaging abilities can be seriously fun:

Touch of Idiocy
Shivering Touch (from Frostburn)
Bestow Curse
Contagion
Poison
Redneck4Hire
11-10-05, 03:12 PM Arcane:

1st level: Shocking Grasp or Chill Touch. Chill Touch only does 1d6, but you should be able to use it more then once before having to cast another spell into it (example: Shocking Grasp cast into the sword by a 6-level wizard does 6d6 damage once, but Chill Touch cast by the same wizard would do 1d6 damage over 6 different attacks. Furthermore, if you only use two attack that fight, you still have 4 more attacks left before you have to cast another spell into it). Also, there's a chance you'll lower the target's str every time you hit it.

2nd level: Touch of Idiocy and Ghoul Touch. Touch of Idiocy is a perfect spell to hit a spellcaster with. There's a good chance they'll loose their higher level spells. Ghoul Touch is a good one to use against a melee opponent. You won't need to do extra damage, just a coup de grace.

3rd level: I'd have to throw Dispel Magic in here even though it's got a longer range then touch. You can't have too many Dispel Magics

Divine Spells:

Other then Inflict spells, I'd go with Bestow Curse and Contagion. If you have a Druid instead of a Cleric, they can cast Poison into the blade (3rd level spell for a Druid). That would be a very good spell to hit any type of opponent with except those that are immune to poison.
JoshuaWilhoyte
11-10-05, 03:32 PM We always found Searing Light to be useful. We tried Blindness and Bestow Curse, but they proved less useful.
Wizard
11-10-05, 03:38 PM Touch of Idiocy

Wow...this weapon would scare the crap out of me IRL.
psionichamster
11-10-05, 03:42 PM touch of idiocy + spellstoring club = "the stupid bat"

hehehe

now i have to build an npc w/ just this setup.

namaste'
the hamster
bossloki
11-10-05, 04:02 PM it has to be targetable, so no rays.

Why no rays? The reqs for spellstoring are 0-3rd level targeted (I.O.W. has to have a target) spells.

Without the ray restriction I would say fell weakened ray of enfeeblement.
1d6 + 9 STR penalty
It probably won't take them down, but it will take some of the wallop out of their strikes on you.
Dragonsblood
11-10-05, 04:08 PM A ray is an effect spell, not a target spell.
Redneck4Hire
11-10-05, 04:20 PM A ray is a target spell, hence the need for an attack roll. Why would you roll an attack if it's not targeting something? In that case, you have to eliminate touch spells as well since it doesn't specifically say 'target'.
Veomyr
11-10-05, 04:22 PM A ray is an effect spell, not a target spell.

Right, but you still have to target a ray spell. Read below.

Ray of Enfeeblement
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Ray
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Strength equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject’s Strength score cannot drop below 1.
Seeker95
11-10-05, 04:23 PM Dragonsblood is using the traditional "rules lawyer" interpretation of the stat block for rays.
Such interpretations favor literalism over common sense.
Veomyr
11-10-05, 04:25 PM Dragonsblood is using the traditional "rules lawyer" interpretation of the stat block for rays.
Such interpretations favor literalism over common sense.

Sadly, common sense is not so common.
Wyrd Bearer
11-10-05, 04:35 PM A hexblade casting poison into his spellstoring weapon is always fun (especially with my prejudice against divine magic).

Tasha's is always good for a laugh and Melf's acid arrow really gets the point across as well.
Dragonsblood
11-10-05, 04:54 PM Dragonsblood is using the traditional "rules lawyer" interpretation of the stat block for rays.
Such interpretations favor literalism over common sense.

lol ouch, no need to make this personal. I thought I was offering the common interpretation on effect spells. It also confuses me as to why the item description would specifically mention "targeted" spells twice, when your *obviously* superior "common sense" interpretation would include any offensive spell with a standard action casting time.

Spell Storing: A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already.
Strong evocation (plus aura of stored spell); CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be a caster of at least 12th level; Price +1 bonus.

Furthermore, if you take a look at page 175 of the PHB (I can't find it in the SRD), you'll notice under Aiming a Spell that spells are divided into Target, Effect, Area, and Line of Effect. Rays are under Effect, not Target (neither is Fireball).

My statement also follows the logic that governs Spell Turning. Specifically:

The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target. Effect and area spells are not affected. Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells.

But you're more than welcome to houserule it to work :)
Dragonsblood
11-10-05, 05:04 PM A ray is a target spell, hence the need for an attack roll. Why would you roll an attack if it's not targeting something? In that case, you have to eliminate touch spells as well since it doesn't specifically say 'target'.

Perfectly logical - a ray spell does fit the basic definition of a targeted spell. However, DnD uses a special definition of "Target" and "Ray," which can be found under Aiming a Spell on page 175 of the PHB. It explains why Ray spells are Effect spells and not Target spells.
IMarvinTPA
11-10-05, 05:09 PM I'm always amused by new spells that get published that have
Target: One creature

and a description that says "This spell creates a ray that springs forth from you to your target..."

Which gets me going: "Is this a ray spell, or a target spell?"
I especially like it when the spell is named "whatchamacallit ray".

Normally, it doesn't have an important effect, except for those with spell turning or spell storing things. Or the feats "Split Ray" or "Chain Spell" which use these properties.

Normalizing spells in a database does nasty things to your sense of logic and sense. Although, I think I may have been damaged before I started on my site... Maybe databases in general do it to you.

IMarv
bossloki
11-10-05, 05:11 PM From the SRD:

AIMING A SPELL
You must make some choice about whom the spell is to affect or where the effect is to originate, depending on the type of spell. The next entry in a spell description defines the spell’s target (or targets), its effect, or its area, as appropriate.
Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.
If the target of a spell is yourself (the spell description has a line that reads Target: You), you do not receive a saving throw, and spell resistance does not apply. The Saving Throw and Spell Resistance lines are omitted from such spells.
Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you’re flat-footed or it isn’t your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.
Some spells allow you to redirect the effect to new targets or areas after you cast the spell. Redirecting a spell is a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Effect: Some spells create or summon things rather than affecting things that are already present.
You must designate the location where these things are to appear, either by seeing it or defining it. Range determines how far away an effect can appear, but if the effect is mobile it can move regardless of the spell’s range.
Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature you’re aiming at.
If a ray spell has a duration, it’s the duration of the effect that the ray causes, not the length of time the ray itself persists.
If a ray spell deals damage, you can score a critical hit just as if it were a weapon. A ray spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit.

Note the bolded print
IMarvinTPA
11-10-05, 05:20 PM From the SRD:
Effect: Some spells create or summon things rather than affecting things that are already present.
You must designate the location where these things are to appear, either by seeing it or defining it. Range determines how far away an effect can appear, but if the effect is mobile it can move regardless of the spell’s range.
Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature you’re aiming at.

The real question is the reverse:
Are all rays effects?
Or can other rays be targeted or areas?

IMarv
Dragonsblood
11-10-05, 05:20 PM Read up a little bit on your quote Bossloki.
Seeker95
11-10-05, 05:43 PM lol ouch, no need to make this personal. I didn't make it personal, and regret making you feel as if I did.

You offered an interpretation that is frequently used by rules lawyers. Rules lawyers favor literal interpretation over common sense (darkness being the most laughable). Rules lawyers have also managed to convince many on the boards that the literal interpretation is the "correct" interpretation.

Labeling you as a rules lawyer never entered into my intentions,
although I can see how it would be interpretted as such.
syrinth
11-10-05, 07:25 PM What was that about Darkness? Just out of curiosity

and although it pains me to say this, I would have to agree that ray spells are not targetted(I did so love the thought of scorching rays in my double bladed longsword) Because if rays were targetted then we could have level 17 wizards casting Chain Disintegrates, a thought which made me really happy until someone pointed out that Disintegrate was a ray and not a target spell.:weep: Meh, I'll just Chain Flesh to Stone instead :D
smrtgmp
11-10-05, 10:53 PM Oh, come on Seeker. At this point you're just being stubborn.

Rays are not targeted spells, at least not from a mechanical standpoint. Yes, they have a "target" in the classical sense of the word. But in D&D, target is a specific, defined term. Just like fatigued. Just like disabled. Just like ability damage.

These terms are used so that we know how things interact with each other. Why else would they define everything?
cwslyclgh
11-11-05, 04:07 AM What was that about Darkness? Just out of curiosityI believe he was refering to the fact that by the RAW the darkness spell creates light (shadowy illumination) if cast in a totaly dark room.
rusc75
11-11-05, 06:58 AM For the target/non-target discussion go to this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=534283

Let's just assume for this thread that 'targeted' means it has got to have 'target' in the spell description entry between range and duration.

So no fireballs, searing light, acid arrow or ray of enfeeblement.

Other than that there's some nice spells mentioned. I like Poison a lot. Hold Person or Ghoul Touch combined with the Expert Tactician feat would be cool.

For a 0th level spell Touch of Fatigue is nice if you're running out of other spells.

I don't think Chill Touch works in the way described lasting for several rounds. Touch spells are discharged at once. Chill Touch let's you attack 1 creature pr. level instantly - not 1 each round lasting 1 round /level. In a spellstoring weapon it wouldn't be of much use since you can only hit 1 creature.
smrtgmp
11-11-05, 07:14 PM I don't think Chill Touch works in the way described lasting for several rounds. Touch spells are discharged at once. Chill Touch let's you attack 1 creature pr. level instantly - not 1 each round lasting 1 round /level. This is incorrect. Like any touch spell, you can hold the charge, assuming you dont cast anything else in the mean time. It also doesnt give you extra attacks per round, meaning you certainly cant touch several people simoltaneoulsy. You can, however, use it with any iterative attacks you may have, which is one reason why its so good for rogues.
Beppo
11-11-05, 08:03 PM If you want some dramatic visual effect, too take "Touch of Jubilex".
Pierce him with your blade and watch the fellow turn into ooze ... slowly :D
Let his friends watch the show and they'll definitly reconsider their hostility towards you :devil:
smrtgmp
11-11-05, 08:07 PM Is that a 3rd level or lower spell? Sounds very cool, but it also sounds like it would be higher than 3rd level, meaning it wouldnt work for a spell storing weapon.
cwslyclgh
11-11-05, 08:20 PM it is a 3rd level corrupt spell from the BoVD, you take 1d6 pointrs of strength damage when you cast it.... personaly I would not allow corrupt weapons to be placed in a spell storing weapon simply because it allow you to aviod the corruption cost (not literaly, but in effect... for example you could put ToJ in the weapon well before hand and wait for the strength damage to heal before you went adventuring).
smrtgmp
11-11-05, 08:23 PM Wow, thats a 3rd level spell? :eek:
syrinth
11-11-05, 08:27 PM Yeah, the spells from BoVD tend to be kinda scary. Personally I like Apocalypse from the Sky.

In my campaign a war was fought between elves and orcs, being ruled by orcish-magi. The leader of the orcs had the this spell and was attempting to use it by corrupting the elven runestones. So far my PCs don't know this yet but it'll be interesting when the spellbook of Gun'Thakan resurfaces :evillaugh, especially since the Golden Flame currently has it ^_^
smrtgmp
11-11-05, 08:31 PM I have the book, but I've never really looked through it in any detail. Every thing I have seen seemed poorly balanced. It was either obsenely over powered on not worth using, with very little middle ground. The BoVD and the BoED are the only two D&D books I own that I regret purchasing, and I own most of them.
syrinth
11-11-05, 08:33 PM Hmmm, personally I love them. Admittedly they're a bit insane but I still think that they totally rock!

I love the BoVD especially :evillaugh
smrtgmp
11-11-05, 08:36 PM Dont get me wrong, I think a lot of the flavor is cool, I just think the mechanics were poorly implamented. But like I said, I never really gave them a thurough reading.
syrinth
11-11-05, 08:38 PM maybe they are, I'm not sure lol. Considering the fact that my players are only 8th lvl I haven't had the chance to try out most of that stuff :weep:
smrtgmp
11-11-05, 08:46 PM I know the fealing. The PC's in my current game are just reaching 10th level (well, one of them is 10th. They range from 7-10) Low level play drives me nuts after a while. I prefer 7th-15th level.

This is when things really start to get fun, IMO, as you can throw all kinds of crazy **** at them. The last fight I ran was insane. Something like 35 enemies (its a big party). The fight started at 9:30pm and went till 4:30am. Longest encounter I've ever run. Stressful, but quite fun. :D
syrinth
11-11-05, 08:47 PM I know, its just that this time is driving me nuts. This is my first campaign.... we've been playing for two years.......

I wanna throw mind flayers at them! lol

35 enemies? woah....

Edit: my apologies as well :D
smrtgmp
11-11-05, 08:50 PM lol

funny you should mention that. The main baddie in this fight was a mind flayer (with some levels of telepath thrown in for good measure).

This game has been going for about a year now. They started at 2nd level and have worked their way up from there. We play regularly and have marathon sessions (often 10-12 hours in length) so they level at a reasonable rate.

anyways, we've probably derailed this thread enough (sorry, OP). If you want to continue chatting, you can send me a PM or IM me via the little AIM button below my avatar.

happy gaming. :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rusc75 11-10-05, 02:28 PM	What are the best spells for a spellstoring weapon? For damage or other effects, core and non-core, arcane and divine. Remember, it has to be targetable, so no rays. 0th-3rd level spells only. For straight damage my suggestions are: 1st level arcane: Shocking Grasp 2nd level arcane: Fell weakened Shocking Grasp 3rd level arcane: Empowered Shocking Grasp or Vampiric Touch depending on caster level. Divine: Cause Wounds Any other suggestions? If anybody has got some spectacular or alternative use of spellstoring I'd be very interested.
Kendrick 11-10-05, 02:44 PM	Hold Person could be nice, especially if you've got an ally in melee with you to CDG before they get the extra chance to save against it.
Seeker95 11-10-05, 02:53 PM	fireball as long as you have immunity to fire! :devil:
Rjo 11-10-05, 03:11 PM	Damaging abilities can be seriously fun: Touch of Idiocy Shivering Touch (from Frostburn) Bestow Curse Contagion Poison
Redneck4Hire 11-10-05, 03:12 PM	Arcane: 1st level: Shocking Grasp or Chill Touch. Chill Touch only does 1d6, but you should be able to use it more then once before having to cast another spell into it (example: Shocking Grasp cast into the sword by a 6-level wizard does 6d6 damage once, but Chill Touch cast by the same wizard would do 1d6 damage over 6 different attacks. Furthermore, if you only use two attack that fight, you still have 4 more attacks left before you have to cast another spell into it). Also, there's a chance you'll lower the target's str every time you hit it. 2nd level: Touch of Idiocy and Ghoul Touch. Touch of Idiocy is a perfect spell to hit a spellcaster with. There's a good chance they'll loose their higher level spells. Ghoul Touch is a good one to use against a melee opponent. You won't need to do extra damage, just a coup de grace. 3rd level: I'd have to throw Dispel Magic in here even though it's got a longer range then touch. You can't have too many Dispel Magics Divine Spells: Other then Inflict spells, I'd go with Bestow Curse and Contagion. If you have a Druid instead of a Cleric, they can cast Poison into the blade (3rd level spell for a Druid). That would be a very good spell to hit any type of opponent with except those that are immune to poison.
JoshuaWilhoyte 11-10-05, 03:32 PM	We always found Searing Light to be useful. We tried Blindness and Bestow Curse, but they proved less useful.
Wizard 11-10-05, 03:38 PM	Touch of Idiocy Wow...this weapon would scare the crap out of me IRL.
psionichamster 11-10-05, 03:42 PM	touch of idiocy + spellstoring club = "the stupid bat" hehehe now i have to build an npc w/ just this setup. namaste' the hamster
bossloki 11-10-05, 04:02 PM	it has to be targetable, so no rays. Why no rays? The reqs for spellstoring are 0-3rd level targeted (I.O.W. has to have a target) spells. Without the ray restriction I would say fell weakened ray of enfeeblement. 1d6 + 9 STR penalty It probably won't take them down, but it will take some of the wallop out of their strikes on you.
Dragonsblood 11-10-05, 04:08 PM	A ray is an effect spell, not a target spell.
Redneck4Hire 11-10-05, 04:20 PM	A ray is a target spell, hence the need for an attack roll. Why would you roll an attack if it's not targeting something? In that case, you have to eliminate touch spells as well since it doesn't specifically say 'target'.
Veomyr 11-10-05, 04:22 PM	A ray is an effect spell, not a target spell. Right, but you still have to target a ray spell. Read below. Ray of Enfeeblement Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Strength equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject’s Strength score cannot drop below 1.
Seeker95 11-10-05, 04:23 PM	Dragonsblood is using the traditional "rules lawyer" interpretation of the stat block for rays. Such interpretations favor literalism over common sense.
Veomyr 11-10-05, 04:25 PM	Dragonsblood is using the traditional "rules lawyer" interpretation of the stat block for rays. Such interpretations favor literalism over common sense. Sadly, common sense is not so common.
Wyrd Bearer 11-10-05, 04:35 PM	A hexblade casting poison into his spellstoring weapon is always fun (especially with my prejudice against divine magic). Tasha's is always good for a laugh and Melf's acid arrow really gets the point across as well.
Dragonsblood 11-10-05, 04:54 PM	Dragonsblood is using the traditional "rules lawyer" interpretation of the stat block for rays. Such interpretations favor literalism over common sense. lol ouch, no need to make this personal. I thought I was offering the common interpretation on effect spells. It also confuses me as to why the item description would specifically mention "targeted" spells twice, when your obviously superior "common sense" interpretation would include any offensive spell with a standard action casting time. Spell Storing: A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already. Strong evocation (plus aura of stored spell); CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be a caster of at least 12th level; Price +1 bonus. Furthermore, if you take a look at page 175 of the PHB (I can't find it in the SRD), you'll notice under Aiming a Spell that spells are divided into Target, Effect, Area, and Line of Effect. Rays are under Effect, not Target (neither is Fireball). My statement also follows the logic that governs Spell Turning. Specifically: The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target. Effect and area spells are not affected. Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells. But you're more than welcome to houserule it to work :)
Dragonsblood 11-10-05, 05:04 PM	A ray is a target spell, hence the need for an attack roll. Why would you roll an attack if it's not targeting something? In that case, you have to eliminate touch spells as well since it doesn't specifically say 'target'. Perfectly logical - a ray spell does fit the basic definition of a targeted spell. However, DnD uses a special definition of "Target" and "Ray," which can be found under Aiming a Spell on page 175 of the PHB. It explains why Ray spells are Effect spells and not Target spells.
IMarvinTPA 11-10-05, 05:09 PM	I'm always amused by new spells that get published that have Target: One creature and a description that says "This spell creates a ray that springs forth from you to your target..." Which gets me going: "Is this a ray spell, or a target spell?" I especially like it when the spell is named "whatchamacallit ray". Normally, it doesn't have an important effect, except for those with spell turning or spell storing things. Or the feats "Split Ray" or "Chain Spell" which use these properties. Normalizing spells in a database does nasty things to your sense of logic and sense. Although, I think I may have been damaged before I started on my site... Maybe databases in general do it to you. IMarv
bossloki 11-10-05, 05:11 PM	From the SRD: AIMING A SPELL You must make some choice about whom the spell is to affect or where the effect is to originate, depending on the type of spell. The next entry in a spell description defines the spell’s target (or targets), its effect, or its area, as appropriate. Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell. If the target of a spell is yourself (the spell description has a line that reads Target: You), you do not receive a saving throw, and spell resistance does not apply. The Saving Throw and Spell Resistance lines are omitted from such spells. Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you’re flat-footed or it isn’t your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing. Some spells allow you to redirect the effect to new targets or areas after you cast the spell. Redirecting a spell is a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Effect: Some spells create or summon things rather than affecting things that are already present. You must designate the location where these things are to appear, either by seeing it or defining it. Range determines how far away an effect can appear, but if the effect is mobile it can move regardless of the spell’s range. Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature you’re aiming at. If a ray spell has a duration, it’s the duration of the effect that the ray causes, not the length of time the ray itself persists. If a ray spell deals damage, you can score a critical hit just as if it were a weapon. A ray spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Note the bolded print
IMarvinTPA 11-10-05, 05:20 PM	From the SRD: Effect: Some spells create or summon things rather than affecting things that are already present. You must designate the location where these things are to appear, either by seeing it or defining it. Range determines how far away an effect can appear, but if the effect is mobile it can move regardless of the spell’s range. Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature you’re aiming at. The real question is the reverse: Are all rays effects? Or can other rays be targeted or areas? IMarv
Dragonsblood 11-10-05, 05:20 PM	Read up a little bit on your quote Bossloki.
Seeker95 11-10-05, 05:43 PM	lol ouch, no need to make this personal. I didn't make it personal, and regret making you feel as if I did. You offered an interpretation that is frequently used by rules lawyers. Rules lawyers favor literal interpretation over common sense (darkness being the most laughable). Rules lawyers have also managed to convince many on the boards that the literal interpretation is the "correct" interpretation. Labeling you as a rules lawyer never entered into my intentions, although I can see how it would be interpretted as such.
syrinth 11-10-05, 07:25 PM	What was that about Darkness? Just out of curiosity and although it pains me to say this, I would have to agree that ray spells are not targetted(I did so love the thought of scorching rays in my double bladed longsword) Because if rays were targetted then we could have level 17 wizards casting Chain Disintegrates, a thought which made me really happy until someone pointed out that Disintegrate was a ray and not a target spell.:weep: Meh, I'll just Chain Flesh to Stone instead :D
smrtgmp 11-10-05, 10:53 PM	Oh, come on Seeker. At this point you're just being stubborn. Rays are not targeted spells, at least not from a mechanical standpoint. Yes, they have a "target" in the classical sense of the word. But in D&D, target is a specific, defined term. Just like fatigued. Just like disabled. Just like ability damage. These terms are used so that we know how things interact with each other. Why else would they define everything?
cwslyclgh 11-11-05, 04:07 AM	What was that about Darkness? Just out of curiosityI believe he was refering to the fact that by the RAW the darkness spell creates light (shadowy illumination) if cast in a totaly dark room.
rusc75 11-11-05, 06:58 AM	For the target/non-target discussion go to this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=534283 Let's just assume for this thread that 'targeted' means it has got to have 'target' in the spell description entry between range and duration. So no fireballs, searing light, acid arrow or ray of enfeeblement. Other than that there's some nice spells mentioned. I like Poison a lot. Hold Person or Ghoul Touch combined with the Expert Tactician feat would be cool. For a 0th level spell Touch of Fatigue is nice if you're running out of other spells. I don't think Chill Touch works in the way described lasting for several rounds. Touch spells are discharged at once. Chill Touch let's you attack 1 creature pr. level instantly - not 1 each round lasting 1 round /level. In a spellstoring weapon it wouldn't be of much use since you can only hit 1 creature.
smrtgmp 11-11-05, 07:14 PM	I don't think Chill Touch works in the way described lasting for several rounds. Touch spells are discharged at once. Chill Touch let's you attack 1 creature pr. level instantly - not 1 each round lasting 1 round /level. This is incorrect. Like any touch spell, you can hold the charge, assuming you dont cast anything else in the mean time. It also doesnt give you extra attacks per round, meaning you certainly cant touch several people simoltaneoulsy. You can, however, use it with any iterative attacks you may have, which is one reason why its so good for rogues.
Beppo 11-11-05, 08:03 PM	If you want some dramatic visual effect, too take "Touch of Jubilex". Pierce him with your blade and watch the fellow turn into ooze ... slowly :D Let his friends watch the show and they'll definitly reconsider their hostility towards you :devil:
smrtgmp 11-11-05, 08:07 PM	Is that a 3rd level or lower spell? Sounds very cool, but it also sounds like it would be higher than 3rd level, meaning it wouldnt work for a spell storing weapon.
cwslyclgh 11-11-05, 08:20 PM	it is a 3rd level corrupt spell from the BoVD, you take 1d6 pointrs of strength damage when you cast it.... personaly I would not allow corrupt weapons to be placed in a spell storing weapon simply because it allow you to aviod the corruption cost (not literaly, but in effect... for example you could put ToJ in the weapon well before hand and wait for the strength damage to heal before you went adventuring).
smrtgmp 11-11-05, 08:23 PM	Wow, thats a 3rd level spell? :eek:
syrinth 11-11-05, 08:27 PM	Yeah, the spells from BoVD tend to be kinda scary. Personally I like Apocalypse from the Sky. In my campaign a war was fought between elves and orcs, being ruled by orcish-magi. The leader of the orcs had the this spell and was attempting to use it by corrupting the elven runestones. So far my PCs don't know this yet but it'll be interesting when the spellbook of Gun'Thakan resurfaces :evillaugh, especially since the Golden Flame currently has it ^_^
smrtgmp 11-11-05, 08:31 PM	I have the book, but I've never really looked through it in any detail. Every thing I have seen seemed poorly balanced. It was either obsenely over powered on not worth using, with very little middle ground. The BoVD and the BoED are the only two D&D books I own that I regret purchasing, and I own most of them.
syrinth 11-11-05, 08:33 PM	Hmmm, personally I love them. Admittedly they're a bit insane but I still think that they totally rock! I love the BoVD especially :evillaugh
smrtgmp 11-11-05, 08:36 PM	Dont get me wrong, I think a lot of the flavor is cool, I just think the mechanics were poorly implamented. But like I said, I never really gave them a thurough reading.
syrinth 11-11-05, 08:38 PM	maybe they are, I'm not sure lol. Considering the fact that my players are only 8th lvl I haven't had the chance to try out most of that stuff :weep:
smrtgmp 11-11-05, 08:46 PM	I know the fealing. The PC's in my current game are just reaching 10th level (well, one of them is 10th. They range from 7-10) Low level play drives me nuts after a while. I prefer 7th-15th level. This is when things really start to get fun, IMO, as you can throw all kinds of crazy **** at them. The last fight I ran was insane. Something like 35 enemies (its a big party). The fight started at 9:30pm and went till 4:30am. Longest encounter I've ever run. Stressful, but quite fun. :D
syrinth 11-11-05, 08:47 PM	I know, its just that this time is driving me nuts. This is my first campaign.... we've been playing for two years....... I wanna throw mind flayers at them! lol 35 enemies? woah.... Edit: my apologies as well :D
smrtgmp 11-11-05, 08:50 PM	lol funny you should mention that. The main baddie in this fight was a mind flayer (with some levels of telepath thrown in for good measure). This game has been going for about a year now. They started at 2nd level and have worked their way up from there. We play regularly and have marathon sessions (often 10-12 hours in length) so they level at a reasonable rate. anyways, we've probably derailed this thread enough (sorry, OP). If you want to continue chatting, you can send me a PM or IM me via the little AIM button below my avatar. happy gaming. :D