best spells for battle sorcerer [Archive] - Wizards Community

best spells for battle sorcerer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fallen_Universe
12-26-05, 11:07 AM Yeah.

I want to know what are the best spell choices for a battle sorcerer (unearthed arcana).

I ask you because I consider playing some kind of spellcaster/fighter mix and I dont want to use the usual top candidates for this (clr and dru).

A list with the most useful/effective spells would be cool.
Marix
12-26-05, 11:36 PM Just remember, you have less spells known than before.

Now, I would suggest these:

1st level:
Shield
Grease
True Strike
Enlarge Person

2nd level:
Melf's Acid Arrow
See Invisibility
Glitterdust
Mirror Image/Darkvision

3rd level:
Haste
Fireball
Dispel Magic/Vampiric Touch

4th level:
Mass Resist Energy
Dimension Door/Dimensional Anchor
Orb of Force

5th level:
Greater Blink
Cone of Cold
Feeblemind

6th level:
Greater Dispel Magic
True Seeing

7th level:
Greater Teleport
Waves of Exhaustion

8th level:
Mind Blank
Power Word: Stun

9th level:
Mordenkainen's Disjunction or Foresight
Wish

Now, this isn't the end-all be-all spell list. Change it, scrap it, doesn't really matter. Just remember to tailor your feats to take full advantage of the slim pickin's you get as a battle sorcerer, and try to adjust your spells to balance as much as you can for your attacks, defenses, and utilities.
Blaque
12-27-05, 01:08 AM I just made a battle sorcerer that's multi-classed as an effective 10th-level one. The spells right now in the non-cantrip area, and noting access to the core and Spell Compendium:

1st Level:
- True Strike
- Insightful Feint
- Nerveskitter
- Grease

2nd Level
- Heroics
- Wraithstrike
- Whirling Blade

3rd Level
- Dolorious Blade
- Bands of Steel

4th Level
- Blade of Deception

5th Level
- Lesser Spell Matrix

Sue me for abusing some potentially debatable spells (specifically Heroics and Wraithstrike), but they work, so I'll use 'em. Insightful Feint is there mostly for bluffing and feinting (specialized character) since the high Cha sorcerers have to ahve anyhow makes htis actually a pretty good option, IMHO.

The Spell Matrix series of spells are soemthing I think a lot of sorcerers should look into. Its about the only way you are going to quikcen anything usefully, so its worth a shot. Things like Blade of Deception and Persistant Blade, which grant you more attacks against your opponent, are also really handy, since you might be dealing with a slight bt of MAD, and not having as good of accuracy as you'd like. These spells give you a nice extra attack, without putting yourself at risk. Both are matrixable, so look it up.

Dropping insightful feint for shield would help too, since the character I made depended on equipment to get most of her AC. Don't rely on blasting too much, save for maybe a single beam or ray spell of some sort. You want to make your actual combat capabilty better, and when you are casting a fireball, you could be full attacking, or something. I'm also a fan of using something like an Orb or Ray instead in that you can put them in a spell-storing weapon, not worry about it being saved for less, and since they are lower level, generally you have more ot put in them.

Ummm, and stuff.

Nyarr.
Ertai Planeswalker
12-27-05, 01:24 AM Personally I would focus on spells that buff yourself or hamper your opponent in combat, but no straight up direct damage spells. So i'd take Enlarge and Shrink person, haste and slow, stoneskin, misdirection... also, don't forget about spells that allow you to keep attacking your enemy regardlessof his defenses, so you need see invisibility, true seeing, fly, ethereal jaunt. Also, Dimension Door is a combat favorite of mine. Thunderlance (FRCS) is also a very usefull spell.
Blaque
12-27-05, 01:49 AM Just to add, some good feats to look into, IMHO:

Extend Spell - Mainly since you are buffing a lot. The aformentioend spell matrix comes quite in handy for making some good use of swift-casted extended spells like Heroics, and whatnot.

Improved Familiar - WIll help with your critter's sruvivablity if you want to still keep it around, and not have it die on ya.

Weapon Focus - Just 'cause sometimes, you want to make sure your preferred weapon can keep up and all that jazz.

Arcane Diciple - If you got extra Wisdom about, this will help you a lot with expanding your spell list. War Domain is always useful for such builds.

Sudden Metamagics - These don't mess with your caster level, and don't slow your spells down. This can get quite in handy later on.

Combat Expertise - Based on your tactics, as normal. My battle sorcerer feints a lot, for example. This also helps make it so Heroics gets more milage, as you expand what it can add.

Power Attack - Simalelr as above. Once again, helps Heroics too.

Also, there might be some other variants you mgiht want to look into. Specifically, also in UA, there is a variant to give up your familiar for a companion as if you were a ranger (a druid of half your sorcerer level). This is actually pretty nice, since a companion does a couple things:

- Its not going to hurt you as badly if it dies on you. Doesn't seem as much, but as a melee character, the last thing you want is your pet to get in the fray, die, and leave you without XP, or to drop it entirely, giving up your only not-caster class quality.

- Animal companions generally are better at fighting the familiars anyhow, and can get pretty beefy. Even a leopard as a 10th level sorcerer is a nice buy.

- With the Natural Bond feat form Complete Adventurer, you can get +4 to yoru effective druid level to your companion. This allows for a lot of nice beefy things like tigers and whatnot at more reasonable times.

- Companions don't deliver touch spells, granted, but since they'll stick near you a lot, probably,t hey benefit from buffs you do, like Dolorious Blade, Nerveskitter, and Heroics.

More stuff.
Alienfreak
12-27-05, 10:12 AM Arcane Disciple (Healing) is the way to go in my opinion :)
Never leave your Heal at home if you go into battle :D
tarkin
12-27-05, 11:19 AM From the core books, here are the spells of each level that I like a lot.

0) Disrupt Undead, Flare
1) Sleep until you can change it - take Magic Missile. Shield, Ray of Enfeeblement (strength of 1 often can stand in armor)
2) Web, Scorching Ray, Mirror Image
3) Fireball, Dispell Magic, Non-detection
4) Greater Invisiblity, Enervation, Resilient Sphere
5) Feeblemind, Teleport
6) Acid Fog, Circle of Death
7) Plane Shift, Project Image
8) Irresitable Dance, Maze, Sunburst, Telekinetic Sphere
9) Astral Projection, ShapeChange, Timestop, Prismatic SPhere.
CaoSlayer
12-27-05, 12:07 PM since nobody reminds it:
which is your fighting style?

there are diferent spells suitable for diferent situations.

for a not too unviable arcane archer the combo of wall of wind/fly it is almost unbeatable, if your master allow it, alter self into an avariel works better.

for close combat I highly recomend to take a spellstoring weapon and always have it charged with a powerful spell, I personaly favors hideous laughter since can take out a foe from battle, scorching ray for the high damage ration and vampiric touch because isnt elemental damage and heals.

in addition if you are planning on two weapon fighting, take a look into touch spells, since it is easy to conect with one and dont uses your str. it is a great way for negating the disadvantages of two weapon fighting, just watch the witch from Narnia movie.
xAndurilx
12-27-05, 12:44 PM I cannot believe you dont have Polymorph or Alterself in your list of recommended spells.

Shame on you.

All of you.
tarkin
12-27-05, 12:52 PM While those are good spells, they are not so much battle spells.

Same with False Life.
Alienfreak
12-27-05, 03:28 PM Alter Self -> Troglodyte is definatly an battle spell ...
Dracspero
12-27-05, 03:52 PM Depends on the type. If you're an archer oriented battle sorcerer you'll likely have a high dex, and not want to lose it (there won't be many forms that will have a better dex AND let you keep using your bow). If you're a melee type polymorph will be more usefull, but Alter Self probably won't grant a race that will give you better physical stats.
CaoSlayer
12-27-05, 04:28 PM but Alter Self probably won't grant a race that will give you better physical stats.

the main advantage of alter self over polymorph it is that with alter self you keep your physical stats.
Ertai Planeswalker
12-27-05, 06:46 PM I cannot believe you dont have Polymorph or Alterself in your list of recommended spells.

Shame on you.

All of you.
:blush: :blush: :blush:

Okay, Polymorph Self -> Firbolg.
NineInchNall
12-27-05, 11:50 PM The CO board went through all of this loooong ago. Granted, the list hasn't been updated for some time now, but you really should check out The DEFINITIVE sorcerer spell list 3.5 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=183763&page=1&pp=30). Really now, it amuses me how no one seems to know about that forum. ;)
gorfnad the shiznit
12-28-05, 02:58 AM Tenser's Transformation anyone? It makes the battle sorc more of a fighter. If you can cast haste, displacement, and stoneskin before it, the battle sorc then becomes a mini-tank.
CaoSlayer
12-28-05, 04:37 AM Tenser's Transformation anyone? It makes the battle sorc more of a fighter. If you can cast haste, displacement, and stoneskin before it, the battle sorc then becomes a mini-tank.

in other words, you should try some non-core spells like chain contigence spell (level 9, allows to cast up to three spells instead one) and spell matrix so you can cast faster all the spells.

that spell that allows you to attack with touch attack it is way overpowered.
Hustler One
12-28-05, 10:50 AM Ray of Enfeeblement has been extremely useful to me. And Bestow Curse, easily I can drop people out of a battle and concentrate on larger threats. Great for capturing prey alive aswell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fallen_Universe 12-26-05, 11:07 AM	Yeah. I want to know what are the best spell choices for a battle sorcerer (unearthed arcana). I ask you because I consider playing some kind of spellcaster/fighter mix and I dont want to use the usual top candidates for this (clr and dru). A list with the most useful/effective spells would be cool.
Marix 12-26-05, 11:36 PM	Just remember, you have less spells known than before. Now, I would suggest these: 1st level: Shield Grease True Strike Enlarge Person 2nd level: Melf's Acid Arrow See Invisibility Glitterdust Mirror Image/Darkvision 3rd level: Haste Fireball Dispel Magic/Vampiric Touch 4th level: Mass Resist Energy Dimension Door/Dimensional Anchor Orb of Force 5th level: Greater Blink Cone of Cold Feeblemind 6th level: Greater Dispel Magic True Seeing 7th level: Greater Teleport Waves of Exhaustion 8th level: Mind Blank Power Word: Stun 9th level: Mordenkainen's Disjunction or Foresight Wish Now, this isn't the end-all be-all spell list. Change it, scrap it, doesn't really matter. Just remember to tailor your feats to take full advantage of the slim pickin's you get as a battle sorcerer, and try to adjust your spells to balance as much as you can for your attacks, defenses, and utilities.
Blaque 12-27-05, 01:08 AM	I just made a battle sorcerer that's multi-classed as an effective 10th-level one. The spells right now in the non-cantrip area, and noting access to the core and Spell Compendium: 1st Level: - True Strike - Insightful Feint - Nerveskitter - Grease 2nd Level - Heroics - Wraithstrike - Whirling Blade 3rd Level - Dolorious Blade - Bands of Steel 4th Level - Blade of Deception 5th Level - Lesser Spell Matrix Sue me for abusing some potentially debatable spells (specifically Heroics and Wraithstrike), but they work, so I'll use 'em. Insightful Feint is there mostly for bluffing and feinting (specialized character) since the high Cha sorcerers have to ahve anyhow makes htis actually a pretty good option, IMHO. The Spell Matrix series of spells are soemthing I think a lot of sorcerers should look into. Its about the only way you are going to quikcen anything usefully, so its worth a shot. Things like Blade of Deception and Persistant Blade, which grant you more attacks against your opponent, are also really handy, since you might be dealing with a slight bt of MAD, and not having as good of accuracy as you'd like. These spells give you a nice extra attack, without putting yourself at risk. Both are matrixable, so look it up. Dropping insightful feint for shield would help too, since the character I made depended on equipment to get most of her AC. Don't rely on blasting too much, save for maybe a single beam or ray spell of some sort. You want to make your actual combat capabilty better, and when you are casting a fireball, you could be full attacking, or something. I'm also a fan of using something like an Orb or Ray instead in that you can put them in a spell-storing weapon, not worry about it being saved for less, and since they are lower level, generally you have more ot put in them. Ummm, and stuff. Nyarr.
Ertai Planeswalker 12-27-05, 01:24 AM	Personally I would focus on spells that buff yourself or hamper your opponent in combat, but no straight up direct damage spells. So i'd take Enlarge and Shrink person, haste and slow, stoneskin, misdirection... also, don't forget about spells that allow you to keep attacking your enemy regardlessof his defenses, so you need see invisibility, true seeing, fly, ethereal jaunt. Also, Dimension Door is a combat favorite of mine. Thunderlance (FRCS) is also a very usefull spell.
Blaque 12-27-05, 01:49 AM	Just to add, some good feats to look into, IMHO: Extend Spell - Mainly since you are buffing a lot. The aformentioend spell matrix comes quite in handy for making some good use of swift-casted extended spells like Heroics, and whatnot. Improved Familiar - WIll help with your critter's sruvivablity if you want to still keep it around, and not have it die on ya. Weapon Focus - Just 'cause sometimes, you want to make sure your preferred weapon can keep up and all that jazz. Arcane Diciple - If you got extra Wisdom about, this will help you a lot with expanding your spell list. War Domain is always useful for such builds. Sudden Metamagics - These don't mess with your caster level, and don't slow your spells down. This can get quite in handy later on. Combat Expertise - Based on your tactics, as normal. My battle sorcerer feints a lot, for example. This also helps make it so Heroics gets more milage, as you expand what it can add. Power Attack - Simalelr as above. Once again, helps Heroics too. Also, there might be some other variants you mgiht want to look into. Specifically, also in UA, there is a variant to give up your familiar for a companion as if you were a ranger (a druid of half your sorcerer level). This is actually pretty nice, since a companion does a couple things: - Its not going to hurt you as badly if it dies on you. Doesn't seem as much, but as a melee character, the last thing you want is your pet to get in the fray, die, and leave you without XP, or to drop it entirely, giving up your only not-caster class quality. - Animal companions generally are better at fighting the familiars anyhow, and can get pretty beefy. Even a leopard as a 10th level sorcerer is a nice buy. - With the Natural Bond feat form Complete Adventurer, you can get +4 to yoru effective druid level to your companion. This allows for a lot of nice beefy things like tigers and whatnot at more reasonable times. - Companions don't deliver touch spells, granted, but since they'll stick near you a lot, probably,t hey benefit from buffs you do, like Dolorious Blade, Nerveskitter, and Heroics. More stuff.
Alienfreak 12-27-05, 10:12 AM	Arcane Disciple (Healing) is the way to go in my opinion :) Never leave your Heal at home if you go into battle :D
tarkin 12-27-05, 11:19 AM	From the core books, here are the spells of each level that I like a lot. 0) Disrupt Undead, Flare 1) Sleep until you can change it - take Magic Missile. Shield, Ray of Enfeeblement (strength of 1 often can stand in armor) 2) Web, Scorching Ray, Mirror Image 3) Fireball, Dispell Magic, Non-detection 4) Greater Invisiblity, Enervation, Resilient Sphere 5) Feeblemind, Teleport 6) Acid Fog, Circle of Death 7) Plane Shift, Project Image 8) Irresitable Dance, Maze, Sunburst, Telekinetic Sphere 9) Astral Projection, ShapeChange, Timestop, Prismatic SPhere.
CaoSlayer 12-27-05, 12:07 PM	since nobody reminds it: which is your fighting style? there are diferent spells suitable for diferent situations. for a not too unviable arcane archer the combo of wall of wind/fly it is almost unbeatable, if your master allow it, alter self into an avariel works better. for close combat I highly recomend to take a spellstoring weapon and always have it charged with a powerful spell, I personaly favors hideous laughter since can take out a foe from battle, scorching ray for the high damage ration and vampiric touch because isnt elemental damage and heals. in addition if you are planning on two weapon fighting, take a look into touch spells, since it is easy to conect with one and dont uses your str. it is a great way for negating the disadvantages of two weapon fighting, just watch the witch from Narnia movie.
xAndurilx 12-27-05, 12:44 PM	I cannot believe you dont have Polymorph or Alterself in your list of recommended spells. Shame on you. All of you.
tarkin 12-27-05, 12:52 PM	While those are good spells, they are not so much battle spells. Same with False Life.
Alienfreak 12-27-05, 03:28 PM	Alter Self -> Troglodyte is definatly an battle spell ...
Dracspero 12-27-05, 03:52 PM	Depends on the type. If you're an archer oriented battle sorcerer you'll likely have a high dex, and not want to lose it (there won't be many forms that will have a better dex AND let you keep using your bow). If you're a melee type polymorph will be more usefull, but Alter Self probably won't grant a race that will give you better physical stats.
CaoSlayer 12-27-05, 04:28 PM	but Alter Self probably won't grant a race that will give you better physical stats. the main advantage of alter self over polymorph it is that with alter self you keep your physical stats.
Ertai Planeswalker 12-27-05, 06:46 PM	I cannot believe you dont have Polymorph or Alterself in your list of recommended spells. Shame on you. All of you. :blush: :blush: :blush: Okay, Polymorph Self -> Firbolg.
NineInchNall 12-27-05, 11:50 PM	The CO board went through all of this loooong ago. Granted, the list hasn't been updated for some time now, but you really should check out The DEFINITIVE sorcerer spell list 3.5 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=183763&page=1&pp=30). Really now, it amuses me how no one seems to know about that forum. ;)
gorfnad the shiznit 12-28-05, 02:58 AM	Tenser's Transformation anyone? It makes the battle sorc more of a fighter. If you can cast haste, displacement, and stoneskin before it, the battle sorc then becomes a mini-tank.
CaoSlayer 12-28-05, 04:37 AM	Tenser's Transformation anyone? It makes the battle sorc more of a fighter. If you can cast haste, displacement, and stoneskin before it, the battle sorc then becomes a mini-tank. in other words, you should try some non-core spells like chain contigence spell (level 9, allows to cast up to three spells instead one) and spell matrix so you can cast faster all the spells. that spell that allows you to attack with touch attack it is way overpowered.
Hustler One 12-28-05, 10:50 AM	Ray of Enfeeblement has been extremely useful to me. And Bestow Curse, easily I can drop people out of a battle and concentrate on larger threats. Great for capturing prey alive aswell.