Best spells for first spell secret... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best spells for first spell secret... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
paolung
10-24-06, 04:12 PM A Wu Jen (Complete Arcane) gets their first Spell Secret at level 3, which effectively allows them to permanently alter a spell they can cast with one of the following metamagic feats (even if they don't have that feat) without changing the casting time or level of the spell:

Enlarge Spell
Extend Spell
Still Spell
Silent Spell

Two questions arise:

1. The way the ability reads, a Wu Jen could modify a spell "she knows"- meaning arcane, divine, other... no restrictions! In theory, then, the Wu Jen could take (as an example) 10 levels in Cleric and then apply the spell secret to the "Spell Resistance" spell... is this interpretation correct? What do you think?

2. Let's assume that the ruling is that only Wu Jen spells of level 1 or 2 could be affected (which would be the most restrictive interpretation of the class ability), which spells, in your opinion, would be best candidates for said spell secret? Please list your top 3 along with the secret you'd use and why.

Thanks in advance for any help and ideas! :)
tarkin
10-24-06, 05:06 PM There is no such thing as a "correct" interpreation. There is yours, there is mine, there is the one WoTC has.

I interprate it as clearly Wu-Jen 1-2 only.

The interpreation you gave is based on the assumption that WoTC uses the english language in an extremely exact manner. This is not demonstratively not the case (See Mithral). In addition, it significantly increases the power of the class, contradicts standard assumptions, and turns a base class into something mainly usefull as an 'add-on' for other base classes.

WoTC in general does not give capabilities in a base (non-prestige) class that mainly benefit other classes, without expressely discussing them.

I would not expect any WoTC approved game to follow that interpreation. I would expect to see it in a Power Game or Anything Goes Game, not a Strict or Loose Game.

It seems pretty clear to me that they meant Wu-Jen spells they can currently cast, i.e. of 1-2 levels, which is what I would expect any WoTC approved game, Strict game, or Loose Game to follow.

I don't play Oriental, so I do not feel comfortable making recomendations about specific spells. But I can say that I like Still and Silent on 'escaping' spells such as gaseous form. When the bad guy grapples you, you cast a still version of Gaseous Form and waft away.
festerday
10-24-06, 05:23 PM 1: I think you really have to choose a spell from the Wu Jen spell list.
2: enlarged Hail of stone, extended Shield, still Magic missile.
smrtgmp
10-24-06, 07:50 PM In addition, it significantly increases the power of the class, contradicts standard assumptions, and turns a base class into something mainly usefull as an 'add-on' for other base classes.No it doesnt.

Its not as if taking 3 levels in something that wont progress your CL for another class is even remotely optimized. You would be much better off with 3 more levels of cleric than you would be taking 3 levels of wu-jen to add the benefits of a single metamagic feat to a single spell.

That being said, I agree that the designers probably intended the spell secrets to only apply to Wu-Jen spell, even if the RAW doesnt specify as much.
PhaedrusXY
10-24-06, 07:54 PM I don't remember what is on the Wu Jen list. If you have access to them, either Alter Self or Rope Trick would be nice to permanently apply Extend Spell to. Both are useful at the level you gain them at and continue to be useful later on, also.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
paolung 10-24-06, 04:12 PM	A Wu Jen (Complete Arcane) gets their first Spell Secret at level 3, which effectively allows them to permanently alter a spell they can cast with one of the following metamagic feats (even if they don't have that feat) without changing the casting time or level of the spell: Enlarge Spell Extend Spell Still Spell Silent Spell Two questions arise: 1. The way the ability reads, a Wu Jen could modify a spell "she knows"- meaning arcane, divine, other... no restrictions! In theory, then, the Wu Jen could take (as an example) 10 levels in Cleric and then apply the spell secret to the "Spell Resistance" spell... is this interpretation correct? What do you think? 2. Let's assume that the ruling is that only Wu Jen spells of level 1 or 2 could be affected (which would be the most restrictive interpretation of the class ability), which spells, in your opinion, would be best candidates for said spell secret? Please list your top 3 along with the secret you'd use and why. Thanks in advance for any help and ideas! :)
tarkin 10-24-06, 05:06 PM	There is no such thing as a "correct" interpreation. There is yours, there is mine, there is the one WoTC has. I interprate it as clearly Wu-Jen 1-2 only. The interpreation you gave is based on the assumption that WoTC uses the english language in an extremely exact manner. This is not demonstratively not the case (See Mithral). In addition, it significantly increases the power of the class, contradicts standard assumptions, and turns a base class into something mainly usefull as an 'add-on' for other base classes. WoTC in general does not give capabilities in a base (non-prestige) class that mainly benefit other classes, without expressely discussing them. I would not expect any WoTC approved game to follow that interpreation. I would expect to see it in a Power Game or Anything Goes Game, not a Strict or Loose Game. It seems pretty clear to me that they meant Wu-Jen spells they can currently cast, i.e. of 1-2 levels, which is what I would expect any WoTC approved game, Strict game, or Loose Game to follow. I don't play Oriental, so I do not feel comfortable making recomendations about specific spells. But I can say that I like Still and Silent on 'escaping' spells such as gaseous form. When the bad guy grapples you, you cast a still version of Gaseous Form and waft away.
festerday 10-24-06, 05:23 PM	1: I think you really have to choose a spell from the Wu Jen spell list. 2: enlarged Hail of stone, extended Shield, still Magic missile.
smrtgmp 10-24-06, 07:50 PM	In addition, it significantly increases the power of the class, contradicts standard assumptions, and turns a base class into something mainly usefull as an 'add-on' for other base classes.No it doesnt. Its not as if taking 3 levels in something that wont progress your CL for another class is even remotely optimized. You would be much better off with 3 more levels of cleric than you would be taking 3 levels of wu-jen to add the benefits of a single metamagic feat to a single spell. That being said, I agree that the designers probably intended the spell secrets to only apply to Wu-Jen spell, even if the RAW doesnt specify as much.
PhaedrusXY 10-24-06, 07:54 PM	I don't remember what is on the Wu Jen list. If you have access to them, either Alter Self or Rope Trick would be nice to permanently apply Extend Spell to. Both are useful at the level you gain them at and continue to be useful later on, also.