Best spells for Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best spells for Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
EarthTremor
05-01-07, 10:00 AM Hey Folks. I'm playing my next PC and I think I'd like to try an Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (Complete Arcane, pg 44). But the challenge myself a bit, I'm going to do it as a sorcerer rather than a wixard. I'd also like the embrace to PrC'd sub-theme of colour.

So my questions are:

1) What are your favourite abjuration spells for sorcerers, keeping the PrC's rather hefty requirements in mind?

2) What are your favourite 'colour' themed spells? Some posters on another board have already hightlighted the power of Color Spray, but are there any others you can think of?

And 3)... what race should I opt for? I've played a few elves recently and I'm keen to try something else.

The sourcebooks we will be using are the PHB, MM, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine, Complete Warrior and the Spell Compendium. Some posters have already recommended a few options from PHB2 and Complete Mage but no-one in our gaming groups owns either of those books, sorry.

Cheers!
EarthTremor
05-02-07, 01:45 AM ack... hate bumping my own threads but no love for the Initiate?

Even just few 'top picks' for spells?
Muktar
05-02-07, 03:36 AM Prismatic ray, prismatic eye, . . .did I say prismatic?
Lafing Cat
05-02-07, 04:53 AM There is of course, any spell with prismatic in the name, I'd add prismatic bow, prismatic mist, and prismatic deluge to the list (though I don't think most of them are actually all that good)

In addition, Hypnotic Pattern, Rainbow Blast, Rainbow Ray, Blinding Colour Surge.

Of course the "best" way to get all your spells "in theme" is to take Spell Thematics. Boosted in 3.5 to give +1 CL to a spell of each level, it also makes them harder to identify and lets you pick a "theme" to all of your spells. For example, your Fireball could be a blast of flames of all colours, your Pyrotechnics could be the hit of the show, your Melf's Acid Arrow could become Melf's Acid Trip Arrow... etc...
EarthTremor
05-02-07, 10:20 AM Prismatic ray, prismatic eye, . . .did I say prismatic?

Except those are evocation spells, not abjuration :)
EarthTremor
05-02-07, 10:21 AM There is of course, any spell with prismatic in the name, I'd add prismatic bow, prismatic mist, and prismatic deluge to the list (though I don't think most of them are actually all that good)

In addition, Hypnotic Pattern, Rainbow Blast, Rainbow Ray, Blinding Colour Surge.

Of course the "best" way to get all your spells "in theme" is to take Spell Thematics. Boosted in 3.5 to give +1 CL to a spell of each level, it also makes them harder to identify and lets you pick a "theme" to all of your spells. For example, your Fireball could be a blast of flames of all colours, your Pyrotechnics could be the hit of the show, your Melf's Acid Arrow could become Melf's Acid Trip Arrow... etc...

Spell Thematic? I haven't seen that feat, what book is it from?
green_yawgmoth
05-02-07, 01:10 PM Where is this "prismatic deluge" from? I have an initate/archmage character (who went SF: abjur and evoc), and this sounds perfect for him.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Osedox
05-02-07, 01:45 PM There is of course, any spell with prismatic in the name, I'd add prismatic bow, prismatic mist, and prismatic deluge to the list (though I don't think most of them are actually all that good)

In addition, Hypnotic Pattern, Rainbow Blast, Rainbow Ray, Blinding Colour Surge.

Of course the "best" way to get all your spells "in theme" is to take Spell Thematics. Boosted in 3.5 to give +1 CL to a spell of each level, it also makes them harder to identify and lets you pick a "theme" to all of your spells. For example, your Fireball could be a blast of flames of all colours, your Pyrotechnics could be the hit of the show, your Melf's Acid Arrow could become Melf's Acid Trip Arrow... etc...lol
Jherid
05-02-07, 04:27 PM Where is this "prismatic deluge" from? I have an initate/archmage character (who went SF: abjur and evoc), and this sounds perfect for him.

Complete Mage page 114.

It's a 9th level spell that functions like a prismatic spray except it's a cylinder with medium range.
EarthTremor
05-02-07, 05:55 PM Where is this "prismatic deluge" from? I have an initate/archmage character (who went SF: abjur and evoc), and this sounds perfect for him.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif

Yeah? I was thinking of that exact same path for my character... what high arcana did you choose for your archmage levels? Frankly, only Mastery of Shaping and Mastery of Counterspelling appear to be any good.
green_yawgmoth
05-02-07, 06:23 PM Yeah? I was thinking of that exact same path for my character... what high arcana did you choose for your archmage levels? Frankly, only Mastery of Shaping and Mastery of Counterspelling appear to be any good.
I went mastery of elements and spell-like ability. MoE is nice for evocation spells, since you hardly ever have to worry about energy immunity/resistance. I took the spell-like ability one because spending one high level slot and one lower level slot to get 2 uses of an auto-metamagiced spell is pretty nice.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
tyrecian
05-02-07, 10:26 PM I know it sounds funky, but you could always ask your GM to allow you to pick your own effects for the spells you cast.

if you are going abjuration for instance, a shield could be a tower shield looking device (albeit spectrally), or an invisible disc of force. You could choose to make it opaque in any color of the spectrum. If the GM allows it you could simply keep up Prestidigitation as a 0 level cantrip and use it to maintain these changes in the way these spells appear.

Resist energy could be a shimmerring glow of whatever color you are protecting against with little balls of light that spark off the chars and float into the air and such...

Your Dispel magic could resemble a rainbow, blasting the other's magic away.

Really if you are attempting creativity, there should be no problem with this. Acid arrow for instance doesnt say what kind of acid it is, and there are acids of many colors, even clear.

Theme comes in alot more for ROle Playing than it does in actual combat. So make Prestidigitation your best friend, and buy expensive robes for those days about town. It is easy to make the stars and moons on your silk robe glow in various colors with Presti-D, as well as simply make your hands blur with little clouds of color as you cast spells with somatic components.

Illusions are also a handy way in which to procure colorful fun. Many spells have colors already built in, such as the Orb line, (conjuration) which are must haves for a sorcerer... each globe doing a different type of damage, so they appear in different colors. Fire is usually red, yellow, blue or green, but acid can be any color, and cold balls could range from white to sky blue to black giving off tendrils of smoke. Of course Force Orbs can be anything at all, even all of the colors, like a prismatic effect.

I would sway away from taking any feats to do these things, so that you can concentrate on the init o' 7fold veil concept for your character, since you are going sorc, it will be tougher cause you dont have those extra feats (i dont have my compArc, so i cant really remember much about it, other than it looks cool)... Its a sub theme after all...

The prismatic line is fun and dandy and all, but dont limit yourself to spells you dont want just to fit the sub theme, almost any spell can be colorful in one way or another, to allow it to sink in, simply write the effect by your spell in your spellbook, and every time you cast remind folks. They will eventually understand your sub theme and enjoy it as much as you do, often asking for descriptions when you forget them, or involving your character in RPing because they see a color scenario.

i.e.: Bull's strength: A translucent image of a bull's head appears above yours. Shot through with scintillating rainbow colors, the image dissolves into shards of light which fall and attach to your body, you feel stronger.

All of the Cloud line could be used to create a variety of tinted fogs (dm allowance)...

Even fireballs: An explosion of deep red centerred on the bugbear expands in waves of green and yellow until it encompasses the entire group in a myriad of explosive colors.

Trust me as a DM who always has to make this *stuff* up for my unimaginative players, it goes a long way to making the gaming sessions more fun, and memorable. It also gives that extra bit of character to your PC that makes them a worthwhile party member and a fun PC to play. You will want to keep em around and the party will too. Also your DM, who puts in so much time, will really enjoy someone taking the initiative to maintain a personality and theme for a campaign, and you will be rewarded for that diligence at some point, i almost garauntee.

Word of advice, dont force the subtheme... let it come two or three times a game session, but 15th level everyone will love it. Pushing it will anger the other characters and could turn PCs agianst you... sounds petty, but so are many of the players i game with, hehe.
Derren S.
05-03-07, 02:19 AM Good Abjuration spells (for the requirement) include:

Level 0: Resistance. 0th level spell don't really matter so why not use them to fulfill the spellcasting requirement?

Level 1: Protection from Alignment (Evil). Stops domination effects quite nicely

Shield: +4 Shield AC. Standard buff

Level 2: Magic Circle against ALignment (only when you don't get Protection from alignment). Automatic defense against dominated melee fighters

Level 3: Dispell Magic. A must have

Protection from Elements. Again, a must have

Nondetection. For a intrigue heavy game or when you are paranoid

Level 4: Dimensional Anchor. If your DM plays enemies intelligently (-> They flee)

Stoneskin. Dr is always nice

Lesser Globe of Invulnerability. If Dimensional Anchor is not needed.

What you also can try is to get the Reactive Counterspell feat if you have access to it and then take Reactive Counterspell and the spells which destroy the veils which you think you would rely most often. That way you can always dispell them when the enemy targets your veil with them.
EarthTremor
05-03-07, 03:58 AM Good Abjuration spells (for the requirement) include:

Level 0: Resistance. 0th level spell don't really matter so why not use them to fulfill the spellcasting requirement?

Level 1: Protection from Alignment (Evil). Stops domination effects quite nicely

Shield: +4 Shield AC. Standard buff

Yeah, was thinking this would be a good start. I could always swap some of the less useful spells out once I have access to higher-level stuff.

Level 2: Magic Circle against ALignment (only when you don't get Protection from alignment). Automatic defense against dominated melee fighters

Level 3: Dispell Magic. A must have

Protection from Elements. Again, a must have

Nondetection. For a intrigue heavy game or when you are paranoid

The Magic Circles are 3rd-level spells, but they are useful.

Level 4: Dimensional Anchor. If your DM plays enemies intelligently (-> They flee)

Stoneskin. Dr is always nice

Lesser Globe of Invulnerability. If Dimensional Anchor is not needed.

4th-level Abjurations are the tricky ones; I'll need to know two to qualify for the class, and at the character level that I'll meet the skill requirments, i'll know exactly two 4th-level spells. So there's a lot of pressure to make them useful spells.

Stoneskin is nice but the material component is way to costly to use all that frequently, so unfortunately it's off the list. I didn't think of Dimensional Anchor though. well spotted.

What you also can try is to get the Reactive Counterspell feat if you have access to it and then take Reactive Counterspell and the spells which destroy the veils which you think you would rely most often. That way you can always dispell them when the enemy targets your veil with them.

I haven't seen this feat. What book is it from?

Thnaks for all the help guys :)
RLRapp
05-03-07, 04:28 AM Are limited to the PHB for spells? There are some really cool spell in the Compendium.
EarthTremor
05-03-07, 04:50 AM Are limited to the PHB for spells? There are some really cool spell in the Compendium.

Yes, I have the Spell Compendium :)
tyrecian
05-03-07, 08:09 PM Don't forget that you dont get SS as a Sorc until lvl 8, so that 250 gp is not so costly at those levels. In fact you can have 5 prepared no trouble at all, from all the money you save from NOT being a wizard... hehe

anyways it lasts 10min/level, so 80 minutes minimum, which is 800 rounds.

That is usually enough time to plough through a few encounters and then go about resting up for a few more the next day. Its definately worth it though.
EarthTremor
05-03-07, 08:57 PM You don't know how stingy my DM can be ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EarthTremor 05-01-07, 10:00 AM	Hey Folks. I'm playing my next PC and I think I'd like to try an Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (Complete Arcane, pg 44). But the challenge myself a bit, I'm going to do it as a sorcerer rather than a wixard. I'd also like the embrace to PrC'd sub-theme of colour. So my questions are: 1) What are your favourite abjuration spells for sorcerers, keeping the PrC's rather hefty requirements in mind? 2) What are your favourite 'colour' themed spells? Some posters on another board have already hightlighted the power of Color Spray, but are there any others you can think of? And 3)... what race should I opt for? I've played a few elves recently and I'm keen to try something else. The sourcebooks we will be using are the PHB, MM, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine, Complete Warrior and the Spell Compendium. Some posters have already recommended a few options from PHB2 and Complete Mage but no-one in our gaming groups owns either of those books, sorry. Cheers!
EarthTremor 05-02-07, 01:45 AM	ack... hate bumping my own threads but no love for the Initiate? Even just few 'top picks' for spells?
Muktar 05-02-07, 03:36 AM	Prismatic ray, prismatic eye, . . .did I say prismatic?
Lafing Cat 05-02-07, 04:53 AM	There is of course, any spell with prismatic in the name, I'd add prismatic bow, prismatic mist, and prismatic deluge to the list (though I don't think most of them are actually all that good) In addition, Hypnotic Pattern, Rainbow Blast, Rainbow Ray, Blinding Colour Surge. Of course the "best" way to get all your spells "in theme" is to take Spell Thematics. Boosted in 3.5 to give +1 CL to a spell of each level, it also makes them harder to identify and lets you pick a "theme" to all of your spells. For example, your Fireball could be a blast of flames of all colours, your Pyrotechnics could be the hit of the show, your Melf's Acid Arrow could become Melf's Acid Trip Arrow... etc...
EarthTremor 05-02-07, 10:20 AM	Prismatic ray, prismatic eye, . . .did I say prismatic? Except those are evocation spells, not abjuration :)
EarthTremor 05-02-07, 10:21 AM	There is of course, any spell with prismatic in the name, I'd add prismatic bow, prismatic mist, and prismatic deluge to the list (though I don't think most of them are actually all that good) In addition, Hypnotic Pattern, Rainbow Blast, Rainbow Ray, Blinding Colour Surge. Of course the "best" way to get all your spells "in theme" is to take Spell Thematics. Boosted in 3.5 to give +1 CL to a spell of each level, it also makes them harder to identify and lets you pick a "theme" to all of your spells. For example, your Fireball could be a blast of flames of all colours, your Pyrotechnics could be the hit of the show, your Melf's Acid Arrow could become Melf's Acid Trip Arrow... etc... Spell Thematic? I haven't seen that feat, what book is it from?
green_yawgmoth 05-02-07, 01:10 PM	Where is this "prismatic deluge" from? I have an initate/archmage character (who went SF: abjur and evoc), and this sounds perfect for him. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Osedox 05-02-07, 01:45 PM	There is of course, any spell with prismatic in the name, I'd add prismatic bow, prismatic mist, and prismatic deluge to the list (though I don't think most of them are actually all that good) In addition, Hypnotic Pattern, Rainbow Blast, Rainbow Ray, Blinding Colour Surge. Of course the "best" way to get all your spells "in theme" is to take Spell Thematics. Boosted in 3.5 to give +1 CL to a spell of each level, it also makes them harder to identify and lets you pick a "theme" to all of your spells. For example, your Fireball could be a blast of flames of all colours, your Pyrotechnics could be the hit of the show, your Melf's Acid Arrow could become Melf's Acid Trip Arrow... etc...lol
Jherid 05-02-07, 04:27 PM	Where is this "prismatic deluge" from? I have an initate/archmage character (who went SF: abjur and evoc), and this sounds perfect for him. Complete Mage page 114. It's a 9th level spell that functions like a prismatic spray except it's a cylinder with medium range.
EarthTremor 05-02-07, 05:55 PM	Where is this "prismatic deluge" from? I have an initate/archmage character (who went SF: abjur and evoc), and this sounds perfect for him. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif Yeah? I was thinking of that exact same path for my character... what high arcana did you choose for your archmage levels? Frankly, only Mastery of Shaping and Mastery of Counterspelling appear to be any good.
green_yawgmoth 05-02-07, 06:23 PM	Yeah? I was thinking of that exact same path for my character... what high arcana did you choose for your archmage levels? Frankly, only Mastery of Shaping and Mastery of Counterspelling appear to be any good. I went mastery of elements and spell-like ability. MoE is nice for evocation spells, since you hardly ever have to worry about energy immunity/resistance. I took the spell-like ability one because spending one high level slot and one lower level slot to get 2 uses of an auto-metamagiced spell is pretty nice. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
tyrecian 05-02-07, 10:26 PM	I know it sounds funky, but you could always ask your GM to allow you to pick your own effects for the spells you cast. if you are going abjuration for instance, a shield could be a tower shield looking device (albeit spectrally), or an invisible disc of force. You could choose to make it opaque in any color of the spectrum. If the GM allows it you could simply keep up Prestidigitation as a 0 level cantrip and use it to maintain these changes in the way these spells appear. Resist energy could be a shimmerring glow of whatever color you are protecting against with little balls of light that spark off the chars and float into the air and such... Your Dispel magic could resemble a rainbow, blasting the other's magic away. Really if you are attempting creativity, there should be no problem with this. Acid arrow for instance doesnt say what kind of acid it is, and there are acids of many colors, even clear. Theme comes in alot more for ROle Playing than it does in actual combat. So make Prestidigitation your best friend, and buy expensive robes for those days about town. It is easy to make the stars and moons on your silk robe glow in various colors with Presti-D, as well as simply make your hands blur with little clouds of color as you cast spells with somatic components. Illusions are also a handy way in which to procure colorful fun. Many spells have colors already built in, such as the Orb line, (conjuration) which are must haves for a sorcerer... each globe doing a different type of damage, so they appear in different colors. Fire is usually red, yellow, blue or green, but acid can be any color, and cold balls could range from white to sky blue to black giving off tendrils of smoke. Of course Force Orbs can be anything at all, even all of the colors, like a prismatic effect. I would sway away from taking any feats to do these things, so that you can concentrate on the init o' 7fold veil concept for your character, since you are going sorc, it will be tougher cause you dont have those extra feats (i dont have my compArc, so i cant really remember much about it, other than it looks cool)... Its a sub theme after all... The prismatic line is fun and dandy and all, but dont limit yourself to spells you dont want just to fit the sub theme, almost any spell can be colorful in one way or another, to allow it to sink in, simply write the effect by your spell in your spellbook, and every time you cast remind folks. They will eventually understand your sub theme and enjoy it as much as you do, often asking for descriptions when you forget them, or involving your character in RPing because they see a color scenario. i.e.: Bull's strength: A translucent image of a bull's head appears above yours. Shot through with scintillating rainbow colors, the image dissolves into shards of light which fall and attach to your body, you feel stronger. All of the Cloud line could be used to create a variety of tinted fogs (dm allowance)... Even fireballs: An explosion of deep red centerred on the bugbear expands in waves of green and yellow until it encompasses the entire group in a myriad of explosive colors. Trust me as a DM who always has to make this stuff up for my unimaginative players, it goes a long way to making the gaming sessions more fun, and memorable. It also gives that extra bit of character to your PC that makes them a worthwhile party member and a fun PC to play. You will want to keep em around and the party will too. Also your DM, who puts in so much time, will really enjoy someone taking the initiative to maintain a personality and theme for a campaign, and you will be rewarded for that diligence at some point, i almost garauntee. Word of advice, dont force the subtheme... let it come two or three times a game session, but 15th level everyone will love it. Pushing it will anger the other characters and could turn PCs agianst you... sounds petty, but so are many of the players i game with, hehe.
Derren S. 05-03-07, 02:19 AM	Good Abjuration spells (for the requirement) include: Level 0: Resistance. 0th level spell don't really matter so why not use them to fulfill the spellcasting requirement? Level 1: Protection from Alignment (Evil). Stops domination effects quite nicely Shield: +4 Shield AC. Standard buff Level 2: Magic Circle against ALignment (only when you don't get Protection from alignment). Automatic defense against dominated melee fighters Level 3: Dispell Magic. A must have Protection from Elements. Again, a must have Nondetection. For a intrigue heavy game or when you are paranoid Level 4: Dimensional Anchor. If your DM plays enemies intelligently (-> They flee) Stoneskin. Dr is always nice Lesser Globe of Invulnerability. If Dimensional Anchor is not needed. What you also can try is to get the Reactive Counterspell feat if you have access to it and then take Reactive Counterspell and the spells which destroy the veils which you think you would rely most often. That way you can always dispell them when the enemy targets your veil with them.
EarthTremor 05-03-07, 03:58 AM	Good Abjuration spells (for the requirement) include: Level 0: Resistance. 0th level spell don't really matter so why not use them to fulfill the spellcasting requirement? Level 1: Protection from Alignment (Evil). Stops domination effects quite nicely Shield: +4 Shield AC. Standard buff Yeah, was thinking this would be a good start. I could always swap some of the less useful spells out once I have access to higher-level stuff. Level 2: Magic Circle against ALignment (only when you don't get Protection from alignment). Automatic defense against dominated melee fighters Level 3: Dispell Magic. A must have Protection from Elements. Again, a must have Nondetection. For a intrigue heavy game or when you are paranoid The Magic Circles are 3rd-level spells, but they are useful. Level 4: Dimensional Anchor. If your DM plays enemies intelligently (-> They flee) Stoneskin. Dr is always nice Lesser Globe of Invulnerability. If Dimensional Anchor is not needed. 4th-level Abjurations are the tricky ones; I'll need to know two to qualify for the class, and at the character level that I'll meet the skill requirments, i'll know exactly two 4th-level spells. So there's a lot of pressure to make them useful spells. Stoneskin is nice but the material component is way to costly to use all that frequently, so unfortunately it's off the list. I didn't think of Dimensional Anchor though. well spotted. What you also can try is to get the Reactive Counterspell feat if you have access to it and then take Reactive Counterspell and the spells which destroy the veils which you think you would rely most often. That way you can always dispell them when the enemy targets your veil with them. I haven't seen this feat. What book is it from? Thnaks for all the help guys :)
RLRapp 05-03-07, 04:28 AM	Are limited to the PHB for spells? There are some really cool spell in the Compendium.
EarthTremor 05-03-07, 04:50 AM	Are limited to the PHB for spells? There are some really cool spell in the Compendium. Yes, I have the Spell Compendium :)
tyrecian 05-03-07, 08:09 PM	Don't forget that you dont get SS as a Sorc until lvl 8, so that 250 gp is not so costly at those levels. In fact you can have 5 prepared no trouble at all, from all the money you save from NOT being a wizard... hehe anyways it lasts 10min/level, so 80 minutes minimum, which is 800 rounds. That is usually enough time to plough through a few encounters and then go about resting up for a few more the next day. Its definately worth it though.
EarthTremor 05-03-07, 08:57 PM	You don't know how stingy my DM can be ;)