Post/Author/DateTime	Post
technodemon 01-17-06, 02:53 PM	What are the good spells found in other source books besides PHB to be made into wand?
LordThavian 01-17-06, 03:17 PM	Any of the orb spells in Complete Arcane would make good choices! :D
Seeker95 01-17-06, 03:19 PM	Since the spells from other books besides WotC are not OGL, we can't legally tell you. However, even if we tell you, it won't help you unless you have the book anyway. So the easiest answer to this question is: Whatever spell of level 4 or less that your DM says you have access to.
IMarvinTPA 01-17-06, 03:32 PM	Since the spells from other books besides WotC are not OGL, we can't legally tell you. However, even if we tell you, it won't help you unless you have the book anyway. So the easiest answer to this question is: Whatever spell of level 4 or less that your DM says you have access to. It isn't THAT bad! You can tell him the names of spells. Just don't go reprinting the whole spell for every spell you think is a good wand. As for me, Wands of those orbs are good. Assay Spell Resistance Delay Death (Unless the Spell Compendium upped the level.) Ghost Touch Weapon Mass Shield of Faith Weapon of the Deity can be fun Just look around. My site has summaries of spells from many sources. IMarv
tarkin 01-17-06, 04:12 PM	Some spells are better than others for wands. In particular, one of the better Wand spells is Ice Storm. No save, no level dependent damage, so you get maximum benefit for minimal effort. Some untyped damage, good against rogues. Smart choice.
Rhomphaia 01-17-06, 06:36 PM	Depends on the type of caster you are using. I will use spells from the PHB to list examples. A caster who buffs, for example, might like Magic Weapon, Greater Magic Waepon, any of the ability buffs (Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, etc), Mage Armor and Magic Vestment and a variety of others. Buff spells are the meat and drink of wand usage. A caster while likes to deal damage would benefit from a wand of Magic Missile, Scorching Ray or Fireball or any number of direct damage spells. Against lower level monsters, Sleep, Deep Slumber, Ray of Enfeeblement and Color Spray are good choices for ending an encounter without bloodshed. I have personally gotten TONS of mileage out of wands of Cure Light Wounds, Cure Moderate Wounds, Summon Monster and Lesser Restoration. However, some spells are not so good for wands. Compulsory enchantments and many conjurations and transmutations are generally poor choices. Examples include Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Feeblemind, Charm Person, Obscuring Mist, Tenser's Floating Disc, Mount and Stinking Cloud. Just keep in mind what kind of caster you are playing and make your wands accordingly. I can tell you the best schools overall for wands are evocation, necromancy and abjuration, in about that order. The worst tend to be enchantment with conjuration and illusion tied at second-worst (though all of these schools have a few excellent wand spell choices).
Seeker95 01-17-06, 07:20 PM	I apologize for my earlier post. I mis-read his question to mean non-WotC spells.
Luminous Crayon 01-17-06, 08:07 PM	Wands use the lowest possible save DCs for the spells they contain. So, the best spells to use in wands are spells that do not allow saves. Cure Light Wounds is the classic choice, but Mage Armor, Detect Magic, and Invisibility are also among the more useful ones I can think of offhand. Wands get exponentially more expensive as the spell level of the spell they contain increases. So while wands of things like Fly, Dimension Door, and Polymorph are frequently useful, they are a little out of the price range of all but the most affluent adventurers. Wands are set at a fixed caster level upon creation, and higher caster level wands are more expensive than lower ones. So, the best spells to use in wands are spells that are not very caster-level dependent, and still function adequately at the minimum CL. While a first-level wand of Magic Missile is often a tempting purchase for a wizard or sorceror with 750g to throw around, those 1d4+1 points of damage are going to get less and less impressive as you gain levels and start throwing around Fireballs and Evard's Black Tentacles on a whim. Ironically, despite the fairly strong genre image of spellcasters pointing wands at their enemies and zapping them into cinders, the most practical and useful spells for wandification in DnD are actually spells that don't target your enemies at all (since spells that affect your enemies are more likely to have saving throws involved, and to be greatly dependant on caster level for their effects.)
Osedox 01-17-06, 08:44 PM	All of my medium to high level casters are never without a Wand of Maximized Lesser Orb of ----, at 9th level thats 40 damage, no save, no SR Ray of Enfeeblement is a good no save spell, and Enervation is crazy for an evil character, other than that Luminious Crayon is right, it is better to stick with spells that are for more useful things, rather than combat oh and shatter is handy as hell
Moon-Lancer 01-17-06, 11:24 PM	splinter bolt from sc is pritty neet. No sr, and no dc. Only bad part is you have to make a ranged attack, not touch attack. bite of the wear rat would be pritty awsome to have as a share husk would be handy to have around blindsight forest fold Vortex of teeth would rock as a wand. No save, awsome protection.
incubus 01-17-06, 11:57 PM	Mnemonic Enhancer.
scottt 01-18-06, 01:03 AM	Mnemonic Enhancer.Hmmm a "spell battery" wand. I like it. Does it still require the 10 minute casting time for each use? Even so with a full wand and 8hrs and 20mins prep time you could prepare 150 levels of extra 1st-3rd level spells at your full casting ability rather than the wand's poxy casting ability. OUCH. Kind of makes a mockery of the sorcerer class. Prepare: You prepare up to three additional levels of spells. A cantrip counts as 1/2 level for this purpose. You prepare and cast these spells normally. I'm not sure the retain use would be as useful if there is a 10 minute cast time.
Roxlimn 01-18-06, 01:27 AM	You always take only 1 hour to prep all your available spell slots.
Infernis 01-18-06, 05:09 AM	Um, Restoration? Especially at higher levels were lesser restoration just doesn't cut it any more. Neutralize poison until you can do Heroe's feast. I make wands of stuff I would need to have in an emergency and would need more than say 5 of at a time. This way I don't have to memorize the spell at all. I have found that it is more economical to craft lots of Wands of Cure light than to do the Cure moderate, cure serious or cure critical wounds. Other choices I do are endure elements, detect magic, comprehend languages, and lesser vigor (assuming you make the wand at higher caster level and don't just make it at minimum caster level). Having 50 Restorations around can be a life saving investment :) Infernis
Seeker95 01-18-06, 08:56 AM	Mnemonic Enhancer.As scottt noted, the retain function is not very useful. Yes, it still takes 10 minutes to cast, even from a wand. I don't think a mnemonic enhancer wand would be worth the 21,000 to buy / 10,500 to create.
tarkin 01-18-06, 11:20 AM	Yes it is. Mainly because you don't have to restrict yourself to one charge. Wake up one day and drain 50 charges from a wand. Takes 500 minutes. Takes 8 hours, 30 minutes. Then spend one hour preparing. Then go and destroy a city with fireballs while protected from arrows, fire, cold, electricity, sonic, acid, with Mirror Images, and blur up. Powerfull offensive strategy, particularly for war time.
Seeker95 01-18-06, 01:36 PM	Mainly because you don't have to restrict yourself to one charge.Given the scenario you have presented, I think it reasonable for a DM to impose a no-multiple uses at a time requirement. Then again, if you spent the last 8 hours and thirty minutes buffing yourself up with this, you probably didn't get a chance to rest. :P I am one of those DMs who is quite comfortable getting a nerf bat out when someone tries to break a game.
TheGogmagog 01-18-06, 02:11 PM	Given the scenario you have presented, I think it reasonable for a DM to impose a no-multiple uses at a time requirement. Then again, if you spent the last 8 hours and thirty minutes buffing yourself up with this, you probably didn't get a chance to rest. :P I am one of those DMs who is quite comfortable getting a nerf bat out when someone tries to break a game. Hmm, didn't get a chance to rest? Is there a duration for the Mnemonic Enhancer? Once you spend the 9 hours or so to memorize the spells they are in your memory in additional slots. Would you retain the 50 2rd level spells until cast or would you only have them for the rest of the day. The rest of the day would only be good for some drawn out siege which you have planned (doesn't do much good if you are suprised). Semi-permanent slots might be worth the 21,000 to buy / 10,500 to create. I'm not even sure how broken it is compared to the cost of a wand of wizardry. I certainly would expect a DM to put a stop to that plan regardless.
Phase 01-18-06, 02:23 PM	is there a quick way to see how much wands cost per lvl? ie a 4th lvl wand being 21k or the like? and how would you maxamize a wand? extra costs, or a feat?
Seeker95 01-18-06, 04:50 PM	Wands are Caster Level x Spell Level x 750 to buy. Half that to make. (Plus 50 times the cost of any priced components.) You can place a quickened cantrip into a wand, or a maximized 0 or 1st leve spell. When pricing a metmagic-based wand, price using spell slot level.
mvincent 01-18-06, 04:50 PM	Best wand: cure light wounds. Good (cheesy) cost break wands: - Wand of identify made by a cleric with the magic domain (divine casting doesn't require the 100gp matrial cost. Although it's 2nd level, it's still cheaper per use than casting it yourself using a pearl). - Wand of Lesser Restoration made by a Paladin (1500 gp) - Wand of Resist Energy made by a Ranger (1500 gp) Other good (i.e. cheap) wands: - Unseen servant - Protection Evil - Enlarge - True strike - Obscuring Mist - Speak w/animals (especially if you have a small bag of tricks)
Alamanther's comeback 01-18-06, 05:22 PM	Ray of Enfeeblement is a good no save spell, and Enervation is crazy for an evil character There's nothing inherrently evil about enervation... It doesn't have the [Evil] descriptor, and I can even see casters using it towards disabling foes they don't want to kill... Anywho, enervation is fabulous, as is ray of enfeeblement... From the Spell Compendium, you might also use [ray of clumsiness (like ray of enfeeblement, only with a penalty to Dexterity), I]heroics[/I], chain missile (which has SR, but no save), and blast of flame (which has a save, but no SR).
cwslyclgh 01-18-06, 05:49 PM	It doesn't have the [Evil] descriptor, and I can even see casters using it towards disabling foes they don't want to kill...except if the misjudge and accidently kill the poor sod with thier enervation then that guy is going to become a wight... if they make animate dead, create undead, greater create undead, ghould gauntlet, etc. (all the spells that create undead) [evil], they should probably make enervation [evil] as well... as when used against your average run of the mill man on the street it might as well be called create wight. (note the same applies to energy drain and any other spells which inflict negative levels, as they all potentialy create undead). from the SRD: A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain. Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight.
cwslyclgh 01-18-06, 05:59 PM	chain missile (which has SR, but no save) while I am thrilled (as it's creator) that you think chain missile is a good wand spell I am afraid I dissagree... chain missile is too tied up with caster level, and seeing as it only advances every other caster level, making it realy worth while is very prohibitive cost wise. A wand with a caster level 10 chain missile costs a lot more (22,500gp) then a wand with a caster level 9 magic missile (6,750gp) and is not all that much more effective... it deals the same amount of damage to a single target, and 1d4+1 points of damage each to 5 additional targets... that is over tripple the price for not much of a return.
Alamanther's comeback 01-18-06, 06:03 PM	except if the misjudge and accidently kill the poor sod with thier enervation then that guy is going to become a wight... if they make animate dead, create undead, greater create undead, ghould gauntlet, etc. (all the spells that create undead) [evil], they should probably make enervation [evil] as well... as when used against your average run of the mill man on the street it might as well be called create wight. (note the same applies to energy drain and any other spells which inflict negative levels, as they all potentialy create undead). from the SRD: Your argumentation makes sense, but I would rather have the spell re-written so that it specifically doesn't create undead (FAR too powerful for a fourth level spell anyway, considering that create undead is level six and has a costly material component and a very long casting time) than see it outfitted with the [Evil] descriptor. In any case, most arcanists wouldn't want to blow a fourth level spell on a lowly commoner. ;)
Merestil Haye 01-18-06, 06:19 PM	I have not seen Knock suggested. I like the idea of Ray of Enfeeblement though. Maximised. At 10th level, That's an 11 point Str penalty dependant only on a to-hit roll. Yes, I know it's expensive, I'll put one in as treasure for my PCs. The next time they fight a necromancer.
cwslyclgh 01-18-06, 06:28 PM	some spells from the Spell Compendium that I think would make decent wands are: assay spell resistance attune form benign transposition consumptive field ice lance ray deflection ray of dizziness and vortex of teeth
BrutishCelt 01-18-06, 06:30 PM	I dig the orb spells for wands. I prefer the sonic orbs, because sonic resistance is fairly rare amongst monsters. Force force missiles is a good one, too. Metal melt is just plain dirty when you've got a wand full of them, battering ram is good when you can't afford a ring of the ram, and the summon monster spells can whip up a small army in no time. As long as you buff up with true strike beforehand, the various rays and orbs are probably the best offensive wands to have tucked up your sleeve.
Luminous Crayon 01-18-06, 06:31 PM	Your argumentation makes sense, but I would rather have the spell re-written so that it specifically doesn't create undead (FAR too powerful for a fourth level spell anyway, considering that create undead is level six and has a costly material component and a very long casting time) than see it outfitted with the [Evil] descriptor. In any case, most arcanists wouldn't want to blow a fourth level spell on a lowly commoner. ;)I'm not so sure that Enervation guarantees that the wight that may result will end up under the control of the one who cast the spell. In fact, it may be reasonable to assume exactly the opposite: that a wight created by these means might seek revenge against the spellcaster who murdered its mortal form. At any rate, if I were a reasonably safety-minded mage planning to amass an army of wights, killing folk with Enervation is *not* the way I'd go about it. That said, I'd probably rewrite the spell in exactly the manner you just suggested, if it saw extensive use in my games.I have not seen Knock suggested.This is another good one, and I feel terrible for forgetting it. Thanks for the reminder.
Alamanther's comeback 01-18-06, 06:40 PM	I'm not so sure that Enervation guarantees that the wight that may result will end up under the control of the one who cast the spell. Which is no different from create undead, actually, which also provides no ability to control the created undead (assumed by the spell description to be hostile).
psionichamster 01-18-06, 06:42 PM	every character i've had that could use one, carried a wand of CLW HP/GP cost is the best available (barring memorized/spontaneously cast slots) for healing, and SO many people can use 'em Shatter was a personal favorite...blasted many a hole through walls Scorching ray should be a staple...especially if you can make one at 7th lvl. or have CL bonuses to wands. 9th lvl MM, and 10th lvl Ray of Enfeeblement make for very nice choices. Featherfall and levitate are useful, especially if you have a climber in the party. Maxed Lesser Orb of Sound, though, makes for a very dynamic punch. namaste' the hamster
Luminous Crayon 01-18-06, 07:17 PM	Which is no different from create undead, actually, which also provides no ability to control the created undead (assumed by the spell description to be hostile).Thanks for clueing me in; my memory gets rusty. This makes the question of Enervation even more interesting.
Osedox 01-18-06, 09:39 PM	From the SRD Enervation Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray of negative energy Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes You point your finger and utter the incantation, releasing a black ray of crackling negative energy that suppresses the life force of any living creature it strikes. You must make a ranged touch attack to hit. If the attack succeeds, the subject gains 1d4 negative levels. If the subject has at least as many negative levels as HD, it dies. Each negative level gives a creature a –1 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks, and effective level (for determining the power, duration, DC, and other details of spells or special abilities). Additionally, a spellcaster loses one spell or spell slot from his or her highest available level. Negative levels stack. Assuming the subject survives, it regains lost levels after a number of hours equal to your caster level (maximum 15 hours). Usually, negative levels have a chance of permanently draining the victim’s levels, but the negative levels from enervation don’t last long enough to do so. An undead creature struck by the ray gains 1d4x5 temporary hit points for 1 hour. I dont see anything about undead do you? :P I would rule that unless a spell specificaly states an effect, it doesent happen. Apparently i had forgotten that Enervation doesent carry the [Evil] tag, perhaps it did in 3.0?
Luminous Crayon 01-18-06, 09:55 PM	I dont see anything about undead do you? :P I would rule that unless a spell specificaly states an effect, it doesent happen.I haven't looked it up yet, but the passage of interest is apparently under the description of negative levels: namely, what happens to anyone who's killed by an excess of them. For this particular example, it's a really weird way to organize things. When a spell like this can have such a strange effect that isn't even hinted at in the spell description but requires you to dig through a glossary, I start writing little notes in my PHB.
Osedox 01-18-06, 10:13 PM	From the SRD A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain. Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight. A creature gains 5 temporary hit points for each negative level it bestows (though not if the negative level is caused by a spell or similar effect). According to the rules you are correct, however this is just one of those times when a DM has to say NO. Creating Undead is more than half of the battle, since with a simple 2nd level spell or a turning check by an evil cleric can turn that Wight into a willing minion, for no cost, and at a much lower level than Create Undead. I would emphaticaly rule that this is a case where counteracting rules dont over-rule eachother. A creature slain by Enervation does exactly what it says in the spell description, it dies. Please no one be offended, i am simply stating my opinion, and dont want to cause a flame battle.
Luminous Crayon 01-19-06, 07:02 AM	Why would I be offended? I'm agreeing with you. I learned something new about the Rules As Written today, but I don't use anything close to the full RAW anyway, and haven't for years. Enervation's nasty side effect is one more thing for me to conveniently ignore; no skin off my nose. That said, we've derailed the thread pretty badly; we really ought to be getting back to the original topic of spells in wands.
smrtgmp 01-19-06, 07:09 AM	Given the wait between death via enervation and raising as a wight, I dont see this getting too out of hand, especially when you concider that you will likely have to hit your target with multiple enervations to kill them unless they are exceedingly weak to begin with. Furthermore, a wight is intelligent, meaning command undead will do nothing more than charm them. As such, it wont exactly be your willing pawn. Just my 2cp on the matter. YMMV. :)
Seeker95 01-19-06, 09:36 AM	Why would I be offended? I'm agreeing with youAre you implying that you would be offended if you did not agree with his opinion? :P As for death by enervation leading to raising as a wight... that's what happens when you die from negative levels. It doesn't need to be listed in the spell description any more than the fireball spell description needs to state that you die if you are reduced to -10 hit points.
IMarvinTPA 01-19-06, 03:54 PM	Ironically, despite the fairly strong genre image of spellcasters pointing wands at their enemies and zapping them into cinders, the most practical and useful spells for wandification in DnD are actually spells that don't target your enemies at all (since spells that affect your enemies are more likely to have saving throws involved, and to be greatly dependant on caster level for their effects.) In a sense, a wand of +1 Caster Level is more appropriate for what wizards in fiction are using, or metamagic rods are really wand-like. Maybe some wands in fiction are more like Pearls of Power, but more pre-emptive (cast the spell for free, still have it prepared). IMarv
Darius Silverbolt 01-20-06, 01:07 PM	I have always liked putting lesser vigor in wands. You get 11 HP for 375 GP! But the price it isn't all that great in combat like a cure light wounds wand but for the long run it goves more bang for the buck.
IMarvinTPA 01-20-06, 01:23 PM	I have always liked putting lesser vigor in wands. You get 11 HP for 375 GP! But the price it isn't all that great in combat like a cure light wounds wand but for the long run it goves more bang for the buck. Its a first level spell, so its 750 gp. In combat, it'll automatically stablize a dieing character. IMarv
Sereno 01-20-06, 01:43 PM	According to the rules you are correct, however this is just one of those times when a DM has to say NO. Creating Undead is more than half of the battle, since with a simple 2nd level spell or a turning check by an evil cleric can turn that Wight into a willing minion, for no cost, and at a much lower level than Create Undead. I would emphaticaly rule that this is a case where counteracting rules dont over-rule eachother. A creature slain by Enervation does exactly what it says in the spell description, it dies. This sounds like a simple case of the person who wrote the death by negative levels rule not knowing *every possible source* of negative levels. The wording of the rule implies negative levels by creature attack ... hence the "Depending on the creature that killed her." I don't think any sane DM would allow a 2nd level spell to be used to create controllable powerful undead. And, if the spell DOES cause the person to rise as a wight, who'd actually use the spell until they were high enough level to be sure to control the resultant undead? At that point, there's better spells for making undead, too....
Seeker95 01-20-06, 01:50 PM	Its a first level spell, so its 750 gp.Depends on whether you made it yourself. :P A follow-up question regarding, for example, a wand of mass lesser vigor. Nothing in the spell description explicitly indicates that you get to select who it affects. Aside from an ad hoc ruling, is there something that contradicts this reading?
Ignatius Metamorphic 01-20-06, 02:18 PM	Probably the most useful wand I ever crafted was a Wand of Protection from Energy. I used that thing all the time. I buffed myself. I buffed party members. In fact, I once blew 5 charges before an encounter to get protection from all 5 types of energy. I suppose Resist Energy would be a lot cheaper, but not as useful. Ignatius
Darius Silverbolt 01-20-06, 02:18 PM	Its a first level spell, so its 750 gp. In combat, it'll automatically stablize a dieing character. IMarv I was refering to crafting cost the wand. Sorry about not being clear. You righr about the auto stabalize but anyhealing spell will do that but when in combat I rather get the 1d8+1 use of a cure light wounds wand which will give a bigger boost to hp in a round vs a 1 hp / rd for 11 rnds or a lesser vigor.
IMarvinTPA 01-20-06, 02:22 PM	I don't think any sane DM would allow a 2nd level spell to be used to create controllable powerful undead. And, if the spell DOES cause the person to rise as a wight, who'd actually use the spell until they were high enough level to be sure to control the resultant undead? At that point, there's better spells for making undead, too.... However, its quite convienient for your Chaotic Evil Cleric who's deity is more about chaos than anything else to create lots of uncontrolled undead. He doesn't care what they do or try to control them. They're just crazy! (BTW, I never make my own wands...) IMarv
wonlee76 01-20-06, 02:41 PM	For a very limited purpose of a rogue with a high UMD check or maybe an arcane trickster, a wand of Acid Splash can get you some mileage. Short range = within range for a range sneak attack. No SR, No Save, range touch attack and pure acid damage on the sneak attack thus bypassing DR concerns. All in all, for the price, pretty handy for the rogue/arcane trickster type.
cwslyclgh 01-20-06, 02:58 PM	I don't think any sane DM would allow a 2nd level spell to be used to create controllable powerful undead. And, if the spell DOES cause the person to rise as a wight, who'd actually use the spell until they were high enough level to be sure to control the resultant undead? At that point, there's better spells for making undead, too....Enervation is a 4th level spell, and the wights it creates are not under the casters control... when somebody mentioned a 2nd level spell above they were refering to command undead, which can be cast on any wight, not just one created as a by-product of enervation... (and since wights are intelligent, command undead will not give you "control" over them that is absolute, it just makes them freindly... and allows you to attempt an opposed charisma check to give them non-suiciadal or obviously harmful orders. as to waiting until you are high enough level to be sure to control the resultant undead... enervation is not on the cleric spell list, nor can I think of any domains off the top of my head which grant it, so for sorcerer/wizards using command undead is probably about the best chioce they have.
smrtgmp 01-20-06, 04:07 PM	cwslyclgh said what I was going to say. as to waiting until you are high enough level to be sure to control the resultant undead... enervation is not on the cleric spell list, nor can I think of any domains off the top of my head which grant it, so for sorcerer/wizards using command undead is probably about the best chioce they have.The necromancer domain (in the Eberron Campaign Setting) grants access to several arcane necromancy spells, including command undead and enervation. One of my PCs is a Cleric of the Blood of Vol. He took this domain, and the corresponding domain spontaneity feat.
LiamDeclan 01-21-06, 01:44 AM	Wands of Faith Healing are great if everyone in the party worships the same Deity. Even if you just use it on yourself its like casting a maximized cure light wounds every time.