Post/Author/DateTime	Post
joseccb 04-10-07, 12:08 PM	What are in your opinion the best spells to store in a melee spellstoring weapon??? Combust Ray of Dizziness Vampiric Touch
sineous blackspell 04-10-07, 12:13 PM	hold person
Beware of Kobold 04-10-07, 12:32 PM	Vampiric Touch won't work that well in a spellstoring weapon. from the description of spellstoring in the srd: "Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires." the weapon casts the spell, not the user of the weapon. The spell would do damage but the weapon would recieve the healing. My favorite spellstoring spell is Melf's Unicorn Arrow from PHBII. It does 1d8+8 damage per some number (cant remember) of levels and initiates a DC 21 bull rush (+2 to the DC for every unicorn horn that attacks the target)
Beware of Kobold 04-10-07, 12:35 PM	Also spells that create rays (such as ray of dizziness) aren't targeted spells. Spellstoring specifies that it only holds spells that list a target in the description such as "one humanoid creature per three levels" or something like that. Ray spells don't list a target and usually say "effect: one ray" or something similar
NobodyRemembersThis 04-10-07, 01:04 PM	If a cleric, I am partial to Inflict Serious Wounds. If a Druid, Poison (1d10 con damage/ Yes Please!) If a Bard, Confusion. If a Sorcerer or Wizard, Ghoul Touch I am also partial to Dispel Magic :plotting:
TunFiskeMad 04-10-07, 01:20 PM	shivering touch or whats its called - isnt that touch 3d6 dex dmg - i can see the fun in that :D
Aracor 04-10-07, 01:24 PM	Nobody's mentioned my favorites! Blindness Bestow Curse Slow I'll second Dispel Magic too.
Alvoros Darkleaf 04-10-07, 01:45 PM	Gotta love Bestow Curse - generally a good choice with it's multiple possible effects - it has great flexibility. But...on this topic...HOW do you determine what the save DC of the spell stored spell goes off as? We argue over this continually in our game, so generally just avoid this weapon enhancement...though would love to use it with my Duskblade. For example...my 14th level cleric companion casts "Bestow Curse" in the weapon (if he casted it normally it would be a DC 20 lets say) and my duskblade attacks with it....what is the "Will Negates" DC of the spell? Is it the same as if the cleric had casted it? DC 14? Does it use the "minimum" DC like a scroll etc. What about a spell with caster level effects...does it use the original caster level of who puts the spell in, or does is use the caster level of the "spell storing" enchantment....12? Alvo
NobodyRemembersThis 04-10-07, 02:14 PM	According to the SRD, the spellcaster casts the spell into the weapon. So, the spell has the DC of the Spellcaster at the time of the casting.
Aracor 04-10-07, 02:14 PM	Gotta love Bestow Curse - generally a good choice with it's multiple possible effects - it has great flexibility. But...on this topic...HOW do you determine what the save DC of the spell stored spell goes off as? We argue over this continually in our game, so generally just avoid this weapon enhancement...though would love to use it with my Duskblade. For example...my 14th level cleric companion casts "Bestow Curse" in the weapon (if he casted it normally it would be a DC 20 lets say) and my duskblade attacks with it....what is the "Will Negates" DC of the spell? Is it the same as if the cleric had casted it? DC 14? Does it use the "minimum" DC like a scroll etc. What about a spell with caster level effects...does it use the original caster level of who puts the spell in, or does is use the caster level of the "spell storing" enchantment....12? Alvo We've always played it so that it uses whatever was put in. If a 40 intelligence wizard puts something in there, it's going to use his save. If a scroll is used to put the spell in there, the minimum save will be used. We default it to the minimum if nobody knows or if it wasn't documented.
kjenks 04-10-07, 02:47 PM	The save DC is the minimum, regardless of who cast the spell into the weapon or what the spellcaster's ability scores and feats were. Here's the rule: SRD === SAVING THROWS AGAINST MAGIC ITEM POWERS Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects. For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability modifier of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell. Staffs are an exception to the rule. Treat the saving throw as if the wielder cast the spell, including caster level and all modifiers to save DC. Most item descriptions give saving throw DCs for various effects, particularly when the effect has no exact spell equivalent (making its level otherwise difficult to determine quickly). === Caster level is usually 12th, but it would be CL 15th for a +5 weapon. Here's the rule: SRD === • Caster Level: The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation. This information is given in the form “CL x,” where “CL” is an abbreviation for caster level and “x” is an ordinal number representing the caster level itself. For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator’s caster level must be as high as the item’s caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator’s level). === For weapons, that general rule is modified like this: SRD === Caster Level for Weapons: The caster level of a weapon with a special ability is given in the item description. For an item with only an enhancement bonus and no other abilities, the caster level is three times the enhancement bonus. === And here's the weapon special ability description: SRD === Spell Storing: A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already. Strong evocation (plus aura of stored spell); CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be a caster of at least 12th level; Price +1 bonus. === Notice that last line: "CL 12th"
Grod_The_Giant 04-10-07, 03:09 PM	well, let's not get too off-topic here. I personally am partial to shocking grasp. Easy for a caster to get their hands on, and does a good deal of damage for a level 1 spell. With fire immunity for everyone, fireball would be fun (for a real flaming burst) Blindness/Deafness would be good, especially for rogues If your party's wizard put it in, vamperic touch would be a good way to heal him/her (I'd rule the hp drained goes to the person who cast the spell into the weapon) hell, how about true strike? basically a gaurenteed hit for your next attack.
Beware of Kobold 04-10-07, 03:10 PM	in most cases (almost every case) ruling it that way will increase the caster level of the spell in the weapon by a lot. for 8000 something gold a level 5 cleric can change his inflict serious wounds spell from a 3d8+5 to a 3d8+12
Beware of Kobold 04-10-07, 03:13 PM	With fire immunity for everyone, fireball would be fun (for a real flaming burst) hell, how about true strike? basically a gaurenteed hit for your next attack. Fireball and Truestrike are not targetted spells and so can't be cast into the weapon. Even if it did work, why would you want to cast true strike on the person you are attacking? True Strike isn't a spell that affects the person you want to attack, it gives the attacker +20 bonus on his next attack.
Thiez 04-10-07, 03:25 PM	The save DC is the minimum, regardless of who cast the spell into the weapon or what the spellcaster's ability scores and feats were. Here's the rule: SRD === SAVING THROWS AGAINST MAGIC ITEM POWERS Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects. For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability modifier of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell. Staffs are an exception to the rule. Treat the saving throw as if the wielder cast the spell, including caster level and all modifiers to save DC. Most item descriptions give saving throw DCs for various effects, particularly when the effect has no exact spell equivalent (making its level otherwise difficult to determine quickly). === Caster level is usually 12th, but it would be CL 15th for a +5 weapon. Here's the rule: SRD === • Caster Level: The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation. This information is given in the form “CL x,” where “CL” is an abbreviation for caster level and “x” is an ordinal number representing the caster level itself. For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator’s caster level must be as high as the item’s caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator’s level). === For weapons, that general rule is modified like this: SRD === Caster Level for Weapons: The caster level of a weapon with a special ability is given in the item description. For an item with only an enhancement bonus and no other abilities, the caster level is three times the enhancement bonus. === And here's the weapon special ability description: SRD === Spell Storing: A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already. Strong evocation (plus aura of stored spell); CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be a caster of at least 12th level; Price +1 bonus. === Notice that last line: "CL 12th" lol, so a +1 spellstoring staff would have save DCs based on the stats of the wielder, and all other spellstoring items would have minimum DC? ;)
joseccb 04-10-07, 10:17 PM	so if the DC is the minimun... spells with no save are in advantage when it comes to spellstoring... Combust would be great for damage.... Spell Storing: A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already. Strong evocation (plus aura of stored spell); CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be a caster of at least 12th level; Price +1 bonus. Also when it says "a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level" how will this work with metamagic???? The entry for Spell Storing as a weapon enhancement doesn't specify like the entry for Ring of Spell Storing...
Critalondel 04-11-07, 01:47 AM	I'm a big fan of Shocking Grasp, too. An extra 5d6 damage on an important sword swing is nothing to sneeze at.
ArcTan 04-11-07, 01:50 AM	The save DC is the minimum, regardless of who cast the spell into the weapon or what the spellcaster's ability scores and feats were. Here's the rule: SRD === SAVING THROWS AGAINST MAGIC ITEM POWERS Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects. For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability modifier of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell. Staffs are an exception to the rule. Treat the saving throw as if the wielder cast the spell, including caster level and all modifiers to save DC. Most item descriptions give saving throw DCs for various effects, particularly when the effect has no exact spell equivalent (making its level otherwise difficult to determine quickly). === Caster level is usually 12th, but it would be CL 15th for a +5 weapon. Here's the rule: SRD === • Caster Level: The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation. This information is given in the form “CL x,” where “CL” is an abbreviation for caster level and “x” is an ordinal number representing the caster level itself. For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator’s caster level must be as high as the item’s caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator’s level). === For weapons, that general rule is modified like this: SRD === Caster Level for Weapons: The caster level of a weapon with a special ability is given in the item description. For an item with only an enhancement bonus and no other abilities, the caster level is three times the enhancement bonus. === And here's the weapon special ability description: SRD === Spell Storing: A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already. Strong evocation (plus aura of stored spell); CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be a caster of at least 12th level; Price +1 bonus. === Notice that last line: "CL 12th" Er, no. That's for spells that are intrinsic properties of the item, i.e. spells cast into the item by the creator of the item. Spell storing doesn't work like that. The creator gives it the ability to store spells, but the spells are stored by anyone who casts a spell into the item, so the save DC is based on the person who stored the spell, not on the item's own CL.
ArcTan 04-11-07, 01:54 AM	so if the DC is the minimun... spells with no save are in advantage when it comes to spellstoring... Combust would be great for damage.... Also when it says "a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level" how will this work with metamagic???? The entry for Spell Storing as a weapon enhancement doesn't specify like the entry for Ring of Spell Storing... It doesn't need to specify. Metamagic always works like that -- you use the effective level of the spell after metamagic is applied. So you could use an Empowered magic missile but not an Extended hold person.
joseccb 04-11-07, 09:32 AM	It doesn't need to specify. Metamagic always works like that -- you use the effective level of the spell after metamagic is applied. So you could use an Empowered magic missile but not an Extended hold person. :D :D So if I use feats like Easy Metamagic, Practical Metamagic, Metamagic School Focus or the cheesy Arcane Thesis (that doesn't have a minimun cap of +1 when reducing) would that work with spell storing??? What if I modify the spell with a rod??? What if I apply Sudden Metamagic???? Could that work???
Thiez 04-11-07, 09:41 AM	"What if I modify the spell with a rod??? What if I apply Sudden Metamagic???? Could that work???" It might work, if you used the sudden metamagic the moment you cast the spell in the weapon... ooh this is nice.
Khanix 04-11-07, 09:53 AM	Personally I like bestow cures, touch of idiocy and the like, but if you want to get mean, and I mean really, unquestionably, DM hatred causingly, mean, take a look at shivering touch over in frostburn.... now imagin yourself hitting a dragon or some other strong, low dex beast, for.... yup 3d6 points of dex
kjenks 04-11-07, 10:10 AM	Er, no. That's for spells that are intrinsic properties of the item, i.e. spells cast into the item by the creator of the item. Spell storing doesn't work like that. The creator gives it the ability to store spells, but the spells are stored by anyone who casts a spell into the item, so the save DC is based on the person who stored the spell, not on the item's own CL. I understand that what you say is the way many people play Spell Storing weapons, but do you know of any rules that actually confirm that?
kjenks 04-11-07, 10:21 AM	Metamagic effects apparently work in a Spell Storing weapon, but you should probably follow the general rules for Magic Items and Metamagic Spells, which specifically mention potions, scrolls and wands, but (by the title of the paragraph) seem to apply to other magic items: SRD === Magic Items and Metamagic Spells: With the right item creation feat, you can store a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll, potion, or wand. Level limits for potions and wands apply to the spell’s higher spell level (after the application of the metamagic feat). A character doesn’t need the metamagic feat to activate an item storing a metamagic version of a spell. === And per the following FAQ ruling on Sudden metamagic feats, you could use such a feat, but it would increase the effective spell slot required. And the Spell Storing weapon restricts you to a level 3 spell slot or lower, so you could not cast a spell into the weapon if the total spell slot is higher than 3. SRD === Can sudden metamagic feats (from Complete Arcane) be used to scribe scrolls or craft wands that include the metamagic effect? If so, how would you calculate the cost (since sudden metamagic feats don’t alter the level of the spell)? You can use a sudden metamagic feat in item creation; the cost to create the item would be just as if you were using the regular metamagic feat. For instance, using your Sudden Widen feat to create a scroll of widened fireball would cost as much as a scroll of a 6th-level spell (which is what a widened fireball is). The act of creating the scroll or wand would expend your daily use of Sudden Widen (since the act of creation triggers the spell, making it unavailable for casting). ===
kjenks 04-11-07, 10:41 AM	in most cases (almost every case) ruling it that way will increase the caster level of the spell in the weapon by a lot. for 8000 something gold a level 5 cleric can change his inflict serious wounds spell from a 3d8+5 to a 3d8+12 Inflict Serious Wounds is a pretty good spell to put into a Spell Storing weapon, but the Will save DC is only 14. Compare this with getting +1d6 on almost every hit from a Flaming weapon. A level 5 cleric investing 8,300+ gp for a Spell Storing weapon would be investing a serious percentage of his total wealth for one extra spell. That's on par with 9,000 gp for a level 3 Pearl of Power.
NobodyRemembersThis 04-11-07, 11:17 AM	Let's not forget Touch of Madness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/spells/touchOfMadness.htm). Nothing like a 1 round/Caster Level Daze Effect. :smirk:
Aracor 04-11-07, 11:18 AM	I understand that what you say is the way many people play Spell Storing weapons, but do you know of any rules that actually confirm that?As far as I can tell, the rules don't say one way or the other. Applying LOGIC (I know, I know, feel free to tell me not to); conservation of energy says that whatever you put in, you get out again. I think long ago a customer service rep upheld that as well; but I'd REALLY need to dig to see if I still have it.
Thiez 04-11-07, 11:22 AM	Magic Missile can work with spellstoring. No save, 9d4+9 damage (avg 18). To get the same result with +1d6 energy damage, you need to hit more than 5 times, assuming the creature you're fighting does not have energy resistance. Not bad for a first level spell.
kjenks 04-11-07, 03:00 PM	Magic Missile can work with spellstoring. No save, 9d4+9 damage (avg 18). To get the same result with +1d6 energy damage, you need to hit more than 5 times, assuming the creature you're fighting does not have energy resistance. Not bad for a first level spell. Empower + Magic Missile is even better. (5d4+5)x1.5 (avg 26). Not bad for a level 3 spell.
kjenks 04-11-07, 03:02 PM	As far as I can tell, the rules don't say one way or the other. The rules DO say one way or the other. See above.
mvincent 04-11-07, 03:18 PM	Spell storing doesn't work like that. The creator gives it the ability to store spells, but the spells are stored by anyone who casts a spell into the item, so the save DC is based on the person who stored the spell, not on the item's own CL.That is actually incorrect. This has been (conclusively) discussed several times (on several different boards). If information, links, etc. are desired I would be happy to do the research to provide such. ... but only assuming that the person requesting it would actually make use of it (i.e. isn't completely set on his own opinion regardless of the information I provide) and might even consider thanking me for the effort. Also note: This in regard to DC's... CL's are a different matter, but precedence shows that this is also set to the minimum (rather than the original caster's or creator's CL).