Best way to build a Balanced Magitech heavy setting in D&D [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best way to build a Balanced Magitech heavy setting in D&D [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Stryfe_Raven
09-05-06, 09:17 PM I love Eberron and the forgotten realms but I'd really like to create a more Magitech heavy campaign world but still keep it both balanced with rules, playable and a strong fantasy feel.
Does anyone have house rules or have any ideas on how to create such a setting from within the frame work the rules provided. I'd really like it to have the steam/magi-punk feel of Eberron but with magic items being more common within the major cities and somewhat common in the smaller minor cities but still semi-rare and expensive in rural and less-modern areas.

Is there anyway to do something like this and still keep it balanced?

I'm thinking of introducing a new resource similar to dragonshards that grant a craft reserved to help detour the XP cost when creating magic items that incorporated such a stone, I think this would help explain why magic items are more common as a common magewright could both craft items and advance his skills without the need to worry about his newest project stalling out his advancement. At the same time the world modern magical industry would become reliant on the resource just as the modern industry nations are reliant on cheap energy. The rarity of the resource would help balance magic items in the setting just as the rarity of magestone and powers stones keep magitech from overwhelming the worlds of mage knight and magic the gathering respectively.
Stryfe_Raven
09-06-06, 05:00 PM bump :)
Wuggadad
09-07-06, 12:23 AM Well, what kind of magi-tech flavor do you want?

Do you want the production levels that we associate with industrialization? Elementals for power sources, enchanted mills, etc...?

Or perhaps you can have enchanted tools that allow a talented crafter to produce faster and better. You don't have mass production, but you have a lot more high quality stuff being made. And it lasts. That means that wealth can be built up.

An industrialized society might churn out a huge number of weapons and armor very quickly, but they will be all alike and not of great quality. A magi-tech society could turn out a much smaller amount of very good armor and weapons. But they would last a long time and have the uniqueness of hand crafting.

Do you want to tap into information age and airplane age memes? You can have crystal ball news networks, Planar Allies like Archons or Demons with Greater Teleport to deliver mail and packages. The metropolises of such a world would be much more aware about events happening in foreign capitals. And would access to a huge variety of goods and services. And they would have the wealth to support truly affluent life styles.

Perhaps the appeal of magi-tech is that you can have the "Middle Ages as they Ought to have been". Free from disease and willful ignorance. Then you can have widespread temples who send priests travelling around to cure childhood illnesses. You have wizards who develop the equivalent of the printing press. Their goal is to educate as many people as possible so their apprentices start off with a good basis of knowledge before the wizard gets them. After all, a master of arcane arts may not be the best individual to teach spelling, grammar and basic mathematics.

The problem with a society free from disease and willful ignorance as I have described above is that it will be extremely dynamic, not stable. There will be new spells and applications developed every year, if not every month. Power and wealth come from trade and magical applications, not stable things like land. Wealth and power from land was the basis of Feudal Society. If control over land comes from the king, and control over land ceases to be as economically dominant, then the power and legitimacy of the king is threatened. A collection of merchant houses might rule, and in turn be vulnerable to upstart business concerns and methods of magical travel.

Consider a kingdom or mercantile republic where the great issue of the day is raising the funds for a transcontinental teleport link, to what location, and with what tariffs.
Wuggadad
09-07-06, 12:35 AM Another draw of "magi-tech" is the production of more powerful semi-mundane weapons. Instead of going "guns", "guns with cartridges", "guns with clips", "auto and semi-automatic guns" you could have other weapons become widely available that do greater damage.

Arrows with one shot damage spells, perhaps. Wands of True Strike. You don't need high level casters or great concentrations of wealth to produce one-shot items.

The book says that the material costs of an item will be half the final cost. But what happens if a process is developed to make particular ingrediants cheaper? Or if particular plants or animals are farmed for their magical potential, making them more readily available?

To put it mildly, the d20 system is not set up to handle anything like Economics. Or Ecology.
Thane26425
09-07-06, 05:57 PM I have built this kind of world. For the most part, technology was like it was in this world. This was because for the most part, tech would be cheaper than an equivalent magic. Certain industries were magic heavy, like medical, entertainment, agricultural, and a few others. Mages tended to use more illusion and enchantment spells than evocations, and most had levels of rogue or fighter. The reason for that is that one could fire a gun faster than one could cast a spell. Also, if a mage was seen throwing a spell, they'd become the focus of many ranged attacks. Therefore, it was safer to be discrete and carry a gun.

Clerics were mainly in the various healthcare industries, supplementing mundane doctors. Most common was the use of clerics for post-surgical healing, since even a low level cleric could cast cure light wounds which would speed healing and recovery. They would also handle undead, possessions, and some crime scene work.

Mages would often make magic items, most of which were considered high end luxury items. For example: a rich person could buy a fancy, mundane refridgerator or they could get an enchanted pantry of presevation and cooling which would cost far more. Its a status thing. Others made magic weapons, armors and other items. One could make sniper rifles with the non-lethal damage option for SWAT teams for example, or powerful hunting rifles for rich clients.

But like I said, magic and tech exist together. Tech is more common in daily life because it is cheaper to set up a factory to mass produce TV's than have wizards slowly crank out magic versions that cost vastly more, though some such items could be made as above for wealthy clients.
Wuggadad
09-07-06, 10:34 PM One way is to go the Terry Pratchett Discworld series.

You get imps painting pictures really fast instead of photography, or maybe you get adaptations of the Silent Image spell.

Instead of telegraph you see semaphore towers in the series. You have all sorts of crazy alchemists.

Maybe watch the Jetsons or a similar ancient TV show about the then far future, and posit a whole bunch of different high technologies that are more or less available. Maybe computers are less available, but Dr. McCoy style tricorders and medical science is more available. (Status, Detect Poison, Cure whatever)

Check magic as technology worlds like A Toxic Spell Dump, (Harry Turtledove?), or the Esthar series by Lawrence Watt-Evans. Or Steven Brust's Jhereg series.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stryfe_Raven 09-05-06, 09:17 PM	I love Eberron and the forgotten realms but I'd really like to create a more Magitech heavy campaign world but still keep it both balanced with rules, playable and a strong fantasy feel. Does anyone have house rules or have any ideas on how to create such a setting from within the frame work the rules provided. I'd really like it to have the steam/magi-punk feel of Eberron but with magic items being more common within the major cities and somewhat common in the smaller minor cities but still semi-rare and expensive in rural and less-modern areas. Is there anyway to do something like this and still keep it balanced? I'm thinking of introducing a new resource similar to dragonshards that grant a craft reserved to help detour the XP cost when creating magic items that incorporated such a stone, I think this would help explain why magic items are more common as a common magewright could both craft items and advance his skills without the need to worry about his newest project stalling out his advancement. At the same time the world modern magical industry would become reliant on the resource just as the modern industry nations are reliant on cheap energy. The rarity of the resource would help balance magic items in the setting just as the rarity of magestone and powers stones keep magitech from overwhelming the worlds of mage knight and magic the gathering respectively.
Stryfe_Raven 09-06-06, 05:00 PM	bump :)
Wuggadad 09-07-06, 12:23 AM	Well, what kind of magi-tech flavor do you want? Do you want the production levels that we associate with industrialization? Elementals for power sources, enchanted mills, etc...? Or perhaps you can have enchanted tools that allow a talented crafter to produce faster and better. You don't have mass production, but you have a lot more high quality stuff being made. And it lasts. That means that wealth can be built up. An industrialized society might churn out a huge number of weapons and armor very quickly, but they will be all alike and not of great quality. A magi-tech society could turn out a much smaller amount of very good armor and weapons. But they would last a long time and have the uniqueness of hand crafting. Do you want to tap into information age and airplane age memes? You can have crystal ball news networks, Planar Allies like Archons or Demons with Greater Teleport to deliver mail and packages. The metropolises of such a world would be much more aware about events happening in foreign capitals. And would access to a huge variety of goods and services. And they would have the wealth to support truly affluent life styles. Perhaps the appeal of magi-tech is that you can have the "Middle Ages as they Ought to have been". Free from disease and willful ignorance. Then you can have widespread temples who send priests travelling around to cure childhood illnesses. You have wizards who develop the equivalent of the printing press. Their goal is to educate as many people as possible so their apprentices start off with a good basis of knowledge before the wizard gets them. After all, a master of arcane arts may not be the best individual to teach spelling, grammar and basic mathematics. The problem with a society free from disease and willful ignorance as I have described above is that it will be extremely dynamic, not stable. There will be new spells and applications developed every year, if not every month. Power and wealth come from trade and magical applications, not stable things like land. Wealth and power from land was the basis of Feudal Society. If control over land comes from the king, and control over land ceases to be as economically dominant, then the power and legitimacy of the king is threatened. A collection of merchant houses might rule, and in turn be vulnerable to upstart business concerns and methods of magical travel. Consider a kingdom or mercantile republic where the great issue of the day is raising the funds for a transcontinental teleport link, to what location, and with what tariffs.
Wuggadad 09-07-06, 12:35 AM	Another draw of "magi-tech" is the production of more powerful semi-mundane weapons. Instead of going "guns", "guns with cartridges", "guns with clips", "auto and semi-automatic guns" you could have other weapons become widely available that do greater damage. Arrows with one shot damage spells, perhaps. Wands of True Strike. You don't need high level casters or great concentrations of wealth to produce one-shot items. The book says that the material costs of an item will be half the final cost. But what happens if a process is developed to make particular ingrediants cheaper? Or if particular plants or animals are farmed for their magical potential, making them more readily available? To put it mildly, the d20 system is not set up to handle anything like Economics. Or Ecology.
Thane26425 09-07-06, 05:57 PM	I have built this kind of world. For the most part, technology was like it was in this world. This was because for the most part, tech would be cheaper than an equivalent magic. Certain industries were magic heavy, like medical, entertainment, agricultural, and a few others. Mages tended to use more illusion and enchantment spells than evocations, and most had levels of rogue or fighter. The reason for that is that one could fire a gun faster than one could cast a spell. Also, if a mage was seen throwing a spell, they'd become the focus of many ranged attacks. Therefore, it was safer to be discrete and carry a gun. Clerics were mainly in the various healthcare industries, supplementing mundane doctors. Most common was the use of clerics for post-surgical healing, since even a low level cleric could cast cure light wounds which would speed healing and recovery. They would also handle undead, possessions, and some crime scene work. Mages would often make magic items, most of which were considered high end luxury items. For example: a rich person could buy a fancy, mundane refridgerator or they could get an enchanted pantry of presevation and cooling which would cost far more. Its a status thing. Others made magic weapons, armors and other items. One could make sniper rifles with the non-lethal damage option for SWAT teams for example, or powerful hunting rifles for rich clients. But like I said, magic and tech exist together. Tech is more common in daily life because it is cheaper to set up a factory to mass produce TV's than have wizards slowly crank out magic versions that cost vastly more, though some such items could be made as above for wealthy clients.
Wuggadad 09-07-06, 10:34 PM	One way is to go the Terry Pratchett Discworld series. You get imps painting pictures really fast instead of photography, or maybe you get adaptations of the Silent Image spell. Instead of telegraph you see semaphore towers in the series. You have all sorts of crazy alchemists. Maybe watch the Jetsons or a similar ancient TV show about the then far future, and posit a whole bunch of different high technologies that are more or less available. Maybe computers are less available, but Dr. McCoy style tricorders and medical science is more available. (Status, Detect Poison, Cure whatever) Check magic as technology worlds like A Toxic Spell Dump, (Harry Turtledove?), or the Esthar series by Lawrence Watt-Evans. Or Steven Brust's Jhereg series.