Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Trakx 08-19-05, 10:51 AM	I just gained a Ring of Wish (one charge) from a Deck of Many Things. Any recommendations as for what I should wish for? The choices seem pretty limited, however it says you can "push" the power of the wish, but to beware as, for example, if you wish for, say, 50,000 experience, you might find a dragon suddenly fly overhead. Or if you wish for a Staff of Magi the owner might appear with it. ...and my DM is all about wording. Any tips, tricks, or advice for good wishing?
Hustler One 08-19-05, 11:03 AM	Well, first off. What might you want in the wish? Then I'm sure people could have a good way of wording it. Or at least helping.
Ussutisi 08-19-05, 11:09 AM	I suppose it would depend on what kind of character yours is. If it were me, I would wish for an army of a million men, unwaveringly loyal to you and armed to the teeth. Then you could pretty much get whatever you wanted. :D
Keenath 08-19-05, 11:43 AM	Traditionally, the best 'safe' wish is to wish for a magic item within the pricing guidelines of the spell (isn't it 25,000 gp or something like that?), or wish for a +1 to an ability score. (This can be really nice to boost an odd score up to being even, or to set an even score odd so you can up it at your next level divisible by 4.) You could wish for a minor spell-like ability -- "I wish I could alter self once per day" -- but that's going to depend on your DM and your party's level; it might be safer to wish for a magic item that does it. If you want to stick to items from the book, pull out the DMG (or the SRD for that matter) and scroll down the Wonderous Items table to 25,000 gp, and start looking backwards from there. Luckstones and +5 Cloaks of Resistance are popular, though that level 5 pearl of power could be really nice for a wizard or sorcerer. Or you could pick a Ring of Evasion, assuming you have a moderately good reflex save. Or, heck, that'd go well with the cloak of resistance, eh? My other suggestion would be a ring of minor spell storing. These things are dead useful for a non-caster, as long as you have somebody around to keep it charged up. Great for holding a couple of buffs or an emergency escape option (dimension door)!
Trakx 08-19-05, 11:55 AM	Good point. I didn't state it originally because I figured there were enough general things that people want to wish for that my own wishes could be, well, generalized. Lots of experience, gold, magic items/weapons/armor, godhood, my own kingdom. I drew two cards from the Deck, actually. The second one changed my alignment from True Neutral to Neutral Evil. I was True Neutral as a rogue trying to reform after being converted to the faith of Pelor by a very charismatic (and hot) cleric - being True Neutral, I occationally slipped back into my old ways, though I strove for good. Now that I'm N.E., I don't care - screw her if she won't accept me. That's her weakness. You only get one shot on this plane, and I'm going all the way. All knees will bow, it's just a matter of time. Before acquiring this deck, we have a reoccuring villain who took us all out and stole all our items from us. Basically, we all had +2 weapons, decent armor (all non-magical). I guess it might be nice to get all that back. But I was hoping for something better, especially since my character doesn't care for his companions as much as he does himself.
Trakx 08-19-05, 12:38 PM	I was thinking of a not-so-safe wish (as your options are virtually unlimited), but worded right - which is why I'm coming to you (the D&D forum).
ajmastrean 08-19-05, 12:48 PM	@Trakx You drew Balance, huh? Well, consider that it does not function like the cursed Helm of Opposite Alignment. You are not compelled to act according to your new alignment. It seems your character was trying to be Good, you can suck up the negative level (and remove it with a Restoration) and work for an Atonement or just do good until you get back to NN. You DO NOT HAVE TO PLAY AN EVIL CHARACTER! Other than that, Wish for "Friends" and let your DM do the work.
Trakx 08-19-05, 12:52 PM	Other than that, Wish for "Friends" and let your DM do the work. Wish, "I wish for friends"?
Pryrates 08-19-05, 12:53 PM	Wish spells really all depend on your DM. Almost anything except the most simple of wishes can be used to screw you over, even asking to say be smarter might wind up causing you to say change into a sprite for the +4 int. If he/she isnt quite that bad then id say ask for something thats a permanent aspect of your character, ability boost, better hit points, a feat, some thing like that. Dont ask for items or exp because as you said either their owners or something that would get you that much xp in a single enoucnter will show up.
ajmastrean 08-19-05, 12:55 PM	@Trakx Yes, totally. Friends. They're good.
ninja1 08-19-05, 02:05 PM	Does anyone think it is too goofy to allow taking a 20 on an INT check when wordsmithing your wish?
Trakx 08-19-05, 02:07 PM	Does anyone think it is too goofy to allow taking a 20 on an INT check when wordsmithing your wish? My DM made me use a WIS check, but man, I have to say, great idea!
ajmastrean 08-19-05, 02:13 PM	@Trakx Have you wished already? or is this the mechanic your DM is allowing? If yes (or no) what did you wish for? Was it friends? How did that work out? @The other guy About INT checks, no "take 20" for sure. There are penalties for failure and I was under the impression that 20 on ability checks did not even exist (only skills). I'm not sure I would allow an ability check PERIOD. It depends on how much you know about the effects of Wish beforehand.
ninja1 08-19-05, 02:24 PM	I thought an ability check would make it more difficult, but I don't see why a Knowledge: Arcana or Spellcraft check couldn't be useful to "troubleshoot" the wording a bit to route out flaws. Then again, that opens the doors for spells like Divine Insight and Guidance of the Avatar to boost the skill check to absurd levels. I've used the following statement in another game system: Me: Hmmm, should I make an item to boost my Intelligence or my Dex? I'll go with intelligence.... (after much crafting) Me (made smarter by Int item): Damnit, I should have went with Dex!!! :)
mvincent 08-19-05, 02:24 PM	Does anyone think it is too goofy to allow taking a 20 on an INT check when wordsmithing your wish?Better to hire a professional NPC wordsmith or two with high Int's. That way the responsibility is on the DM.
ninja1 08-19-05, 02:31 PM	Yeah, but if I have the higher Int out of the three of us, they can just "aid another".... :)
Jaaz 08-19-05, 02:48 PM	Standard Wish Legalese: "I wish through the sole power of this wish, without influencing or drawing on outside resources or powers, without any change but is absolutely necessary, ..." Bind up the DM's options if he's picky on wording. If he can find a loophole after something like that, go him. If not, go you. :D Some suggestions for wording for popular items: XP: "...To gain sudden insight and experience relevant to my work, to achieve a new level of pwersonal power through it." Now, this wording may not be optimal if you're almost to your next level cause the DM can simply bump you up to it, and leave you at just having gained the new level. Gold/Wealth: "...To have created a sum of gold equal to [king's ransom/kingdom X's royal treasury, etc]." Created is a very key word here. You don't want the wish, despite the legalese, to whisk away some kingdom's treasury and have the court wizards subsequently scrying on you. Magic Items are case-by-case. If you're DM awards good RP, you might be able to get away with something more powerful if you run into a speech on how you need it for your cause, etc. But wording it that way, it might end up as an intelligent item with that Special cause and the abilities you wanted as only dedicated powers. Estates: "...To have a fully constructed [keep/castle/small ranch/etc] waiting for me upon my return to [currently unoccupied landmark]." This could be slightly twisted but once again, that's what the legalese is for. Now the only reason this might be beneficial to you is if you have leadership. Spell like abilities and the like depend on wording, and also potential power of the ability. Don't go overboard on it.
Trakx 08-19-05, 03:03 PM	@Trakx Have you wished already? or is this the mechanic your DM is allowing? If yes (or no) what did you wish for? Was it friends? How did that work out? @The other guy About INT checks, no "take 20" for sure. There are penalties for failure and I was under the impression that 20 on ability checks did not even exist (only skills). I'm not sure I would allow an ability check PERIOD. It depends on how much you know about the effects of Wish beforehand. Taking 20 may not work, but I'm going to try. It sounded good! And, yes, I wished already, but I have another wish. Essentially, I was able to undo a misfortunate event (drawing a bad card from the Deck), but I worded it so that I still drew my card which gave me my Ring of Wish.
ajmastrean 08-19-05, 03:12 PM	@Jaaz Your post is highly dependent on the Wish being controlled by the verbage, not the intentions or effects of the Wish. @Trakx Cool. Remember - FRIENDS!
Trakx 08-19-05, 03:32 PM	@Jaaz Your post is highly dependent on the Wish being controlled by the verbage, not the intentions or effects of the Wish. Yes, but when pushing the boundries of what you can wish for, it boils down to verbage. And as I stated in my first post, my DM is all about wording. I already learned that he is very quick witted and clever when it comes to the reprocussions of wishes not worded right (fortunately, he does it in a way that you, as a player, know it could have been avoided with a better wording, rather than some DMs who have some effect that just pisses you off)
ninja1 08-19-05, 03:36 PM	Yeah, for my games, I place more value on the Intentions of the wish. Let's face it, we as players cannot all have the equivalent of an 18 Intelligence. :) I'm happy with my players telling me "My character uses a Wish, and words it such that he gets a +1 Con". I can see where the wording is important when you wish for something beyond the power of what can be had reliably. At that point, I'd allow for super-smart characters played by not so super-smart players (read: "most of us"), a chance to carefully word their request.
ajmastrean 08-19-05, 03:38 PM	@Trakx Oh ok, but my comments hold in general for all you DMs out there. Anyway, are you narrowing down your list of Wishes? Are you considering any broad ideas that we can help narrow down (since we covered most of the technical issues)? What about friends?
Trakx 08-19-05, 03:39 PM	Here is some wish ideas that I've come up with. I understand that it boils down to proper wording, so concider this a rough draft. 1) I wish for a wealthy king who believed in our cause to outfit our party in the best gear per our abilities and tastes (i.e. a wizard gets a magic robe and staff, strength-based fighter gets a magic sword and full plate, etc.) 2) I wish to be capable of felling an [monster; i.e. adult red dragon]. 3) I wish to have previously killed a [monster] (assuming you haven't already killed one, and hoping that by putting yourself out of danger by saying "previously killed" you would also gain experience). 4) I wish a epic level wizard to willingly serve under my command for [duration, i.e. forever] (this way we can have more wishes, and with his high intellect he can properly word what I wish for).
Trakx 08-19-05, 03:43 PM	What about friends? I think you see some value in wishing for friends that I don't see. I'm afraid my DM will give me the bar patrons from the show Cheers to suddenly appear and be glad to see me. If it works out like I think you're thinking, everyone who encounters me will be concidered friendly (as opposed to hostile, etc.).
ajmastrean 08-19-05, 04:14 PM	@Trakx Usually the simplest wording is the best and most complete. Too many adjectives, prepositional phrases, and conditions can muck up the clear intent (yes, we said wording was #1, but wording is the sensory representation of intent). Let's go through these... 1) I wish for a wealthy king who believed in our cause to outfit our party in the best gear per our abilities and tastesThat's a Teleportation spell and some level of custom Charm spell, minimum. Already out of line of the explicit effects and prime material for mucking. Try: I wish that a helpful (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/skillsAll.html#diplomacy) patron gives [name each party member] a magic item of significant worth and relevant application. 2) I wish to be capable of felling an [monster; i.e. adult red dragon].This is very vague - you could get anything to happen from material assistance to a one-time combat modifier... perhaps you can explain what you mean a little better first? 3) I wish to have previously killed a [monster] (assuming you haven't already killed one, and hoping that by putting yourself out of danger by saying "previously killed" you would also gain experience).This one is also pretty muckable - I would send you back in time and make you fight it. You are basically asking for experience, which you never earned, yet what this wish seems to do is remove a monster from the world. I would definetely not allow this to be used on a unique creature ("... previously killed a 'Baron Berthil'"). Try: I wish to have [8th or lower save or die spell] cast upon [monster] NOW! (It's a start, albeit a pretty poor one) 4) I wish a epic level wizard to willingly serve under my command for [duration, i.e. forever] (this way we can have more wishes, and with his high intellect he can properly word what I wish for).HA HA HA! NO WAY! I'd just murder each one of you... whew. That was a ruckus. Seriously... get real. Remove this from the list. P.S. I'll get back to you about Friends.
Trakx 08-19-05, 06:04 PM	This is very vague - you could get anything to happen from material assistance to a one-time combat modifier... perhaps you can explain what you mean a little better first? Yes, but you are now capable of defeating this [monster; we'll say adult red dragon]. How you do so is now on the DM. He needs to dream up how you are suddenly "capable" of felling this creature. Though, of course, the downside is that in putting it on the DM, you are giving him more room to "muck it up".
Trakx 08-19-05, 06:16 PM	Our campaign is centered around this villain who is trying to resurrect this death cult to create a improved zombie, use them to create a nigh-unstoppable army, take over the world, etc. We are the Bringers of Light who are to vanquish this evil. (Though, my light is a little dim.) I have two ideas based around this campaign which might be useful: 1) I wish, for purposes of targeting alignment (detections, wards, circles, etc.), my character's alignment appears to whatever is most beneficial to my character at that time. For an evil cleric casting a spell against good, I'm evil. For a paladin trying to Detect Evil, I'm good. 2) As we're searching the world for this cult, I could have a extrodinary ability (I don't know the difference in abilities) where I'm able to detect anyone affiliated with or who has had contact with this cult. ...then again, being a better fighter (though items or experience) certainly helps, too.
GemX 08-19-05, 06:20 PM	3) I wish to have previously killed a [monster] (assuming you haven't already killed one, and hoping that by putting yourself out of danger by saying "previously killed" you would also gain experience). "The past can not be changed"?
Darken 08-19-05, 06:21 PM	My wording is probably far from the best, but the idea of this Wish should be the best in that if it's your first time to use Wish, always wish for this: "I wish that all Wishes I make, present or future ones, will function perfectly according to my true intentions, regardless of the source of said Wishes and regardless of how I word it." This way, after you fancy up the wording more with perhaps some more legal disclaimers and contingencies, should ensure that your wishes either function as you desire or not function at all; ie, whatever you wish will either be granted or be denied, with no chance of it being perverted by evil outsiders or the DM.
Trakx 08-19-05, 06:54 PM	My wording is probably far from the best, but the idea of this Wish should be the best in that if it's your first time to use Wish, always wish for this: "I wish that all Wishes I make, present or future ones, will function perfectly according to my true intentions, regardless of the source of said Wishes and regardless of how I word it." This way, after you fancy up the wording more with perhaps some more legal disclaimers and contingencies, should ensure that your wishes either function as you desire or not function at all; ie, whatever you wish will either be granted or be denied, with no chance of it being perverted by evil outsiders or the DM. Truly great idea, but in the case of this campaign and this DM, Wishes are rare and my character's life expenctancy is short.
mvincent 08-19-05, 07:14 PM	"I wish that all Wishes I make, present or future ones, will function perfectly according to my true intentions, regardless of the source of said Wishes and regardless of how I word it."The easiest resolution to this wish it to ensure that you never make anymore wishes, and the easiest way to assure that is simple, brutal and quick.
HidroliX 08-19-05, 07:21 PM	ask to be immortal! lol then he will put you into a cage! where you cant die! LOL!!! OK!! Then in that cage you learn for eternity about your arcane str! or whateverclass you like!! then after thinking studying learning that class you gain xp! Am i right? after millions of years!:P you party is dead.. WHO GIVES A DAMN!! You have 50 levels wizard/40 levels cleric/30 levels fighter/20 levels munchickenness lich! or a way to become immortal in any plane:D Then you got what you wished for ;) :cool:
Ultima Weapon 08-19-05, 09:49 PM	Here is some wish ideas that I've come up with. I understand that it boils down to proper wording, so concider this a rough draft. 1) I wish for a wealthy king who believed in our cause to outfit our party in the best gear per our abilities and tastes (i.e. a wizard gets a magic robe and staff, strength-based fighter gets a magic sword and full plate, etc.) 2) I wish to be capable of felling an [monster; i.e. adult red dragon]. 3) I wish to have previously killed a [monster] (assuming you haven't already killed one, and hoping that by putting yourself out of danger by saying "previously killed" you would also gain experience). 4) I wish a epic level wizard to willingly serve under my command for [duration, i.e. forever] (this way we can have more wishes, and with his high intellect he can properly word what I wish for). Well, seeing that these all go above and beyond wish's base power, I would feel it my duty as a DM to muck it up so here it goes... 1) My worlds are generally low-magic so keeping that in mind..."As your last words ring out, you find yourself and your companions in the throne room of the lord of your land. He smiles upon you and claps his hands. Responding to the claps, a servant for each of you comes forward with a large chest. Inside you find (Items, blah blah blah.)" Unfortuantly, because magic isn't abundant enough for the king to personally have a court wizard or some equivilant thereof, he had no idea that the items he gave you were laden with almost every curse this side of Sunday. 2) Player: I Wish to have the capabilities to fell a full-grown black dragon Me: A wand appears in your hand. Player: ... I identify it... Me: 'Tis a wand of Black dragon slaying with but one charge. 3) Player: I wish to previously have killed a black Dragon! Me: Well done... Player: ...Well? Me: Yes? Player: XP? Me: My dear friend, experience is a measure of the cunning and hardening you have gained for personally experiencing and overcoming a situation, not some magical force that emenates from the body of dead creatures. You wished a monster dead in the past, but did not actively participate in its demise, therefore you get no XP Player: That's crap... Me: I know... 4) This one is just asking for trouble. As I see it, as long as you've got epic level buddies, those buddies have epic level enemies. Enemies who would just love to get back at old elmnister by killing his little friends.
HidroliX 08-20-05, 05:50 AM	Well, seeing that these all go above and beyond wish's base power, I would feel it my duty as a DM to muck it up so here it goes... 2) Player: I Wish to have the capabilities to slay a full-grown black dragon Me: A wand appears in your hand. Player: ... I identify it... Me: 'Tis a wand of Black dragon slaying with but one charge. 3) Player: I wish to previously have killed a black Dragon! Me: Well done... Player: ...Well? Me: Yes? Player: XP? Me: My dear friend, experience is a measure of the cunning and hardening you have gained for personally experiencing and overcoming a situation, not some magical force that emenates from the body of dead creatures. You wished a monster dead in the past, but did not actively participate in its demise, therefore you get no XP Player: That's crap... Me: I know... 4) This one is just asking for trouble. As I see it, as long as you've got epic level buddies, those buddies have epic level enemies. Enemies who would just love to get back at old elmnister by killing his little friends. 2) Player: I Wish to have the capabilities to fell a full-grown black dragon with endless use! :eek: 3) Player: I wish to gain the experience of a killed black dragon in 1 sec, without actually killing one! 4) I wish a epic level wizard to willingly serve under my command for [duration, i.e. forever] (this way we can have more wishes, and with his high intellect he can properly word what I wish for) and he has no enemies of anykind! TADAA!!(A) btw 5. I wish i was an equal of the gods :P (well i am not into that epic thing but.. are gods allowed to kill other gods?) 6. I wish for an [Equipement of any kind] that can only be used by me!
Ultima Weapon 08-20-05, 05:01 PM	[QUOTE=HidroliX] 3) Player: I wish to gain the experience of a killed black dragon in 1 sec, without actually killing one! QUOTE] That would be a big no-no in my game, wishes have to be made as your character would make them, and I'm pretty sure that your average adventurer doesn't believe in the XP system.
Darken 08-22-05, 12:53 PM	The easiest resolution to this wish it to ensure that you never make anymore wishes, and the easiest way to assure that is simple, brutal and quick.In which case, your resolution fails to acknowledge the part in the original wish where it specifically states "present wish" would be granted regardless of wording. In any event, the purpose is to have the ability to tell your DM directly, OOC, what you want to Wish instead of having to come up with flawless wordings in the game. You still word your wish somewhat, so it doesn't take away the fun, but you want this Wish (or varients thereof) to prevent immature DMs who twist your wish against the rules. The rule for Wish fulfillment is reiterated in the ELH, for those who are interested. Bottomline, you want to be able to tell your DM OOC "I want X", and your DM says either "Ok, Granted" or "No, too powerful, Wish fails", with no possible third or fourth answers.
Algorithm_X 08-22-05, 01:13 PM	Friends are a good thing to wish for, I could see several ways that could be granted, First if you actually have friends they could get teleported and or resurected (if they died) Or it could be the next few people you talk to in a polite and sincere way develop a helpful attitude towards you Or you could get Leadership as a bonus feat You could wish for the conviction and moral stength to do what is compassionate and righteous. If you were my player I would grant a wish like that by changing your alignment to good and make you immune to mind effects, but only those that would make you do an evil act. (IE you couldn't be forced to do or be evil, you'd have to choose it.)
Leach 08-22-05, 01:38 PM	First off, when wording Wishes, it's safest to stick to the rules as written (For example, we recently got a wish from a djinn. We wished for a bag of 50 diamonds worth 500 GP apiece. That totals 25,000 GP, the limits of the spell, and is easily liquidatable for cash. And the GM can't smack you with "oh, they came from a high-level cleric of Death" because something like this is explicitely within the reach of the spell. As for some other suggestions, having a million armed-to-the-teeth men fiercely loyal to you is BAD. It probably means you just inherited a small nation, which is just about to be invaded by a much larger nation with a much larger army. An epic-level wizard cohort is also bad, because epic-level people tend to attrack epic-level trouble. ("Oh no, the world is about to be eaten by Jack the Pumpkin God! Only Gandolfo the Great can save us now!") If you want to go outside wish's limits, I suggest you 1) choose something that won't break the game, 2) don't choose something that looks like powergaming (free XP, free levels, etc), and 3) talk it over with your DM. Outline what you'd like, and get from him what he'd consider "going too far." Since he's the ultimate arbiter, find out where his preferences lie. (I have one character who would probably with to cast prestidigitation at will. Some DMs would smack him down for it, but some would consider that minor enough to let it slide.) Best of luck.
Algorithm_X 08-22-05, 02:00 PM	"I wish that all Wishes I make, present or future ones, will function perfectly according to my true intentions, regardless of the source of said Wishes and regardless of how I word it." The easiest resolution to this wish it to ensure that you never make anymore wishes, and the easiest way to assure that is simple, brutal and quick.(Italics removed) Darken because it is possible for a single 9th level spell to shape every potential 9th level spell effect that you could possibly come into possession of? No, I agree killing your character would be best for the universe. I think simply attracting the personal attention of an evil greater god of death to you to collect your soul would be appropriate for a 9th level spell. (it ismportant that there be no chance of resurrection) Or possibly you just die and your soul is consumed to power the wish. (as in using souls for xp components) thus rendering you non-exsistant. Or simply teleporting you next to a demi-lich so it can eat your soul.
Darken 08-22-05, 02:45 PM	Yes, and perhaps to cast a Wish properly, one will need several lawyers to prepare and compile a selection of legal documents to present during the game to make the Wish air-tight. Perhaps in which case, the DM will take it home to study for a couple of weeks to figure out how he can screw that Wish. :rolleyes: I don't want to argue nearly identical points in two different threads regarding the same subject, so I will continue future arguements (if any), in the other thread titled 1001 Twisted Wish, or something similiar to that effect in the same forum.
Trakx 08-22-05, 03:43 PM	Thank you to everyone who replied. While tons of gold or experience would be great, I think I've decided on what I'll wish for - and without, in my opinion, unbalancing the game. I'm still working on the wording, but essentially to have and progressively gain the Druid's Wild Shape ability up to my current level. Our DM doesn't allow druids or barbarians in this campaign, so this would be a way to gain the druid's ability. Also, I'm a 2nd level Chameleon - a human prestige class that, in short, can shift their talents around. At 2nd level they gain a bonus feat. What is special about this feat is that they can change it once per day. Druids have some very cool feats that have prerequisites of their Wild Shape abilties. My Shifting Feat and this Wild Shape ability together, I can shift (albiet once per day) to suit our party's immediate needs! :) One example is a feat (I don't recall the name offhand) that allows you to have the ability of sonar up to 120ft. The prereq. is that you can wild shape into a dire bat (the smallest of the dire creatures). I don't know if I qualify for that feat, yet, at my current level, but more importantly I WILL be able to. To those that wish to respond, what do you think? Good choice, or a bad waste?
tiercel 08-22-05, 08:56 PM	Actually, I think that's a really interesting idea. It's pretty powerful, depending on exactly how/how often you'll be able to use the ability.... Frankly, as much as people here are interested in throwing out ideas for your wish, your best bet is the sit down with your DM and talk with him about it. You shouldn't be trying to "beat the DM" by coming up with a clever surprise here -- and a wish that he works with you in wording will be one he will probably grant. If it's me granting a wish, anything that falls under the guidelines just works, no twisting. Anything outside the guidelines either works as well as it can under the guidelines (if I think the wish is fairly reasonable) or it malfunctions (if I think the wish is unreasonable, but the malfunction is STILL not more powerful than what a wish can normally do by the guidelines). However, I'm not your DM. Personally, I think one of the best uses for wish is simply to have in your pocket as a "get out of jail free" card -- when you are utterly doomed, wish can move you out of a tight spot, heal you up, or undo something that happened last round. Pretty nice! --On the other hand, if you are talking about a wish granted by the Moon card and it is granting you 1 wish, you only have 1 minute to decide what your wish is, and you can't "keep it in your hip pocket" as it were. You should note that if this is the case, you should keep your wordsmithing to a minimum -- if you try to hand your DM a contract 4 pages long that is supposedly "DM-proof", he will ask you to read it out loud, and then cut you off after one minute and grant a wish depending on what you were able to actually say in one minute. (That's if he's nice... he could give you less time to read it, given that you obviously spent at least part of your minute coming up with the wish.) Keep the wish simple. Either just talk to your DM and make sure what you are wishing for is OK, or else keep your wish entirely within the bounds of what the spell actually states. If you do either (or both!) of these things, you should come out fine, otherwise your character is taking his chances....
robertliguori 08-22-05, 09:36 PM	The easiest resolution to this wish it to ensure that you never make anymore wishes, and the easiest way to assure that is simple, brutal and quick. However, this would be a violation of 'perfectly according to my true intentions', and the wish does specify current wishes. Not at all in line with the wish effect. Moral of the story: Wish is powerful and flexible, but it has limits. Look at it this way: do you really want your PC's to dig their companion out of a ton of gold and then say, "I wish the Morkoth the Destroyer had a million gold pieces, too!"
Wellby the Fountain 08-22-05, 10:27 PM	im not familiar with the cards in the deck... but couldnt you just wish to have drawn a specific different card than the one that changed your alignment? just find the most appealing card in the dmg, and word it like... " i wish to have drawn the card *enter cards name here* instead of the *insert card that changed your alignment* card when i drew the *card that changed alignment* from the deck". would that work?
Ringmereth 08-23-05, 02:25 AM	I like your choice; wildshape is pretty darn cool. How you'd word it, though, is difficult, since your world doesn't include any equivalent abilities. If you wish for "The capability to alter my physical form into that of an animal of equal or lesser power than my own [ie, hit dice]," or similar, you'll get polymorph once a day, which isn't what you want (though it would be useful). You might have to compromise and make it work only for your current level, and not progress with you, or name specific conditions ("duration of up to 24 hours, or until dismissed," "usable as many as five times per 24 hours," etc). Since wild shape depends upon mechanical ideas, like hit dice, and not in-game concepts, it's hard to wish for. As for making money, a mostly ironclad wish is: "I wish that a cube of solid, pure platinum, and only a cube of solid, pure platinum [very important bit, to avoid demon princes and whatnot from coming along] measuring 5 feet wide by 5 feet tall by 5 feet deep, be created just above the ground 10 feet north of me, with no initial velocity, or under the effect any conditions that could be hazardous to my health and well-being." Sure, that's a ginormous amount of money, but it's, to the best of my knowledge, unwarpable. Of course, that means that the fabric of the universe will just blow up in your face...
om_dorastrix 08-23-05, 09:44 AM	I wish for a ring of one wish that, if worn constantly, regains its chage every six months. a little over 26318? I got a better one.... I wish for a ring of wish that, if worn constantly, regains its charge evey six months and that draws its energy (XP component) from me. 360gp?? (cheaper than I thought) if it was three months it would be 720... one 2160, 1/wk - 7200, unless im doing the magic cost wrong (possible), DMGp285? Oh I didnt include the 1/25th xp cost... but I dont have time to recalculate Im already running late... The above would work, useless at low levels, and still potent enough at high levels to not be abused... I wish for a ring of miracle with unlimited use that draws its energy (XP component) from me. probably wont work
Keenath 08-23-05, 10:01 AM	God... I'm happy to let my players make wishes. Being that I'm not an evil DM, I try to fulfil the wish as best I can. But if one of my players came up with one of these wishes that's got to be written like a CONTRACT, they'd get this response: "I wish that, now and forever, using solely the power of this wish, and no external agency, making no changes that are not absolutely necessary --" "Bzzzt. You took too long to state your wish. The spell fizzled. Next?" I know it's a reaction to evil DMs who were urged by 2nd edition to screw every wish that's ever used, but the DM is the DM. He's the one who has to figure out how to grant the wish without completely destroying the game. Trying to use legalese to tie the DM's hands, to insure that your wish becomes exactly what you want, and never mind the effect on the campaign... That is a Player-Vs-DM mindset, and if you REALLY want to go there, we can go there, but you won't like it when we arrive. To the OP -- if you go outside the power level of a wish spell, there are three possible outcomes: Partial fulfilment, in which case you get only a fraction of what you wanted, such as gaining only +1 STR instead of becoming the strongest in the world; Fulfilment with a catch, such as dragging a demon into the Prime Material who happens to own the item in question; or simple spell failure. Ask too much and the DM is perfectly justified in declaring that the wish simply doesn't work. It did its best, but couldn't make the change you demanded, and it failed. Edit: Come to think of it, a "partial fulfilment" could be to ignore all the legalese wrapped around the wish. Nobody said that a wish automatically does everything you say. As a partial fulfilment of your contract-style wish, it's distilled down to its most pure form -- "I wish for blah" -- and THAT is fulfilled in whatever way the wish sees fit.
Keenath 08-23-05, 10:08 AM	As for making money, a mostly ironclad wish is: "I wish that a cube of solid, pure platinum, and only a cube of solid, pure platinum [very important bit, to avoid demon princes and whatnot from coming along] measuring 5 feet wide by 5 feet tall by 5 feet deep, be created just above the ground 10 feet north of me, with no initial velocity, or under the effect any conditions that could be hazardous to my health and well-being." Sure, that's a ginormous amount of money, but it's, to the best of my knowledge, unwarpable. Of course, that means that the fabric of the universe will just blow up in your face... Heck, that's easy to warp. Two choices. If I'm feeling generous: "The spell starts creating platinum, but it starts to fizzle after getting only a fraction of the cube created. You have a slab of platinum worth 25,000 GP." If I'm not: "Okay, you have a block of platinum." One week later, Earth Elemental Monoliths start appearing and hunt down the player, demanding to know what he has done with the block he stole from the throne of the Great Elemental Prince, and demanding to know how he stole it without being caught. (You forgot to wish that the block was unowned. You gained only a block of platinum; the anger of the previous owner is a natural consequence, and not a result of the wish spell.) Also, I noticed this today, in re-reading the spell. Down by the components, regarding the wishing for magical items: "You must pay twice the normal XP cost for crafting or improving the item, plus an additional 5,000 XP." If you're using a ring or whatnot, we can waive the additional 5k, since that's the spell's cost. On the stated powers of wish, it says, "Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value." Apparently you can wish for an abitrarily powerful magic item, so long as you have the XP to pay for it. In my campaign, you can freely wish for an item up to 25,000 gp, since you COULD just wish for that much gold and BUY the item.
Trakx 08-29-05, 09:49 AM	Frankly, as much as people here are interested in throwing out ideas for your wish, your best bet is the sit down with your DM and talk with him about it. You shouldn't be trying to "beat the DM" by coming up with a clever surprise here -- and a wish that he works with you in wording will be one he will probably grant. Yes, but my DM isn't the "Tell me your intentions" sort of DM. He's quick witted, and he welcomes the chance to twist your wish. He won't help you out to get what you want with proper wording. He doesn't seem to think doing so is fair. All that said, however, he also likes it when people ask for the "safer wishes" described by the spell.
Trakx 08-29-05, 10:06 AM	Our games were constantly running too late and they were on Thursdays (yes, I work Mon - Fri). So, it being my last night, I decided to use my wish on my last night. We were stalking a lady who was studying demonology and ways to create an improved zombie. We tracked her to this small fortress in the middle of a swamp. We entered a building and after fighting our way down to the basement we found her in a room doing a spell. We weren't able to get to her in time and she finished the spell, inviting a major demon to possess her. It did, and then grew to its true size, becoming Huge. After fighting it for a little bit, and it nearly killing my character, I run out of the room. My party stays and battles it, but they're not doing so hot. I wish, "I wish the demon had the same morals and ethics of our paladin" (who was a paladin of Heironeous). Unbeknownst to me, our wizard stunned him while everyone was beating on him. So, even if he WAS now Lawful Good, he'll be dead before I can see the fruits of my wish. Yay.
Tetsubo 08-29-05, 10:46 AM	Traditionally, the best 'safe' wish is to wish for a magic item within the pricing guidelines of the spell (isn't it 25,000 gp or something like that?), or wish for a +1 to an ability score. (This can be really nice to boost an odd score up to being even, or to set an even score odd so you can up it at your next level divisible by 4.) You could wish for a minor spell-like ability -- "I wish I could alter self once per day" -- but that's going to depend on your DM and your party's level; it might be safer to wish for a magic item that does it. If you want to stick to items from the book, pull out the DMG (or the SRD for that matter) and scroll down the Wonderous Items table to 25,000 gp, and start looking backwards from there. Luckstones and +5 Cloaks of Resistance are popular, though that level 5 pearl of power could be really nice for a wizard or sorcerer. Or you could pick a Ring of Evasion, assuming you have a moderately good reflex save. Or, heck, that'd go well with the cloak of resistance, eh? My other suggestion would be a ring of minor spell storing. These things are dead useful for a non-caster, as long as you have somebody around to keep it charged up. Great for holding a couple of buffs or an emergency escape option (dimension door)! I like this idea. But how about wishing for the POWER of the item to be inherent to the character? It would be like a Supernatural ability...
Graah 08-29-05, 01:20 PM	Description of the lich, Larloch, in Lords of Darkness gives an "official" view of using wishes. "Through the use of wish spells and lengthy rituals (each of which costs him a spell slot of levels 1st-9th), Larloch can use each of the following spells once per day as a spell-like ability:" - followed by a list of one spell from 1st to 9th level each, but I'll avoid too many spoilers and don't list them. Dunno about wording and dunno if any DM allows that, but...it's "official"! :rolleyes: