Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sooperspook 12-11-05, 11:53 PM	do the penalties from Bestow curse stack with themselves or each other? i noticed that the ability penalty is unnamed as is the -4 roll penalty. and what about the 50% chance of inaction? can it stack to make 100%? thanks all
sooperspook 12-12-05, 03:02 AM	Nobody knows?
Rhomphaia 12-12-05, 07:42 AM	Someone posted a thread like this two or three days ago... Anyway, here is a synopsis of the listed effects of Bestow Curse and whether or not they stack. *-4 penalty to saves and checks- Does not stack. The penalty comes from the same source and as stated in RAW, these do not stack. *50% chance of inaction each round- This really cannot stack, just think about it. *-6 decrease to an ability score- This, unlike the other two, does stack. People will argue that it doesn't, but they will be citing nothing but personal opinion and house rules. By RAW, the wording is what is important. The -6 to an ability score is specifically worded as a decrease, not a penalty. As such, it can and does stack.
Black Mantha 12-12-05, 03:27 PM	*-6 decrease to an ability score- This, unlike the other two, does stack. People will argue that it doesn't, but they will be citing nothing but personal opinion and house rules. By RAW, the wording is what is important. The -6 to an ability score is specifically worded as a decrease, not a penalty. As such, it can and does stack. This would be too unbalancing. You could drop any creature with 4 curses, and most with 2. Even LVL 20 PC's would usually have a score under 13. But, yeah, with the way it's worded you'd have to houserule it.
seraphin138 12-12-05, 06:11 PM	the decrease in ability score does not stack ;) see spell description : it says : minimum 1 ;)
sooperspook 12-12-05, 08:22 PM	with the penalty to saves and checks , i thought that only if the penalty type was named (ie competence, profane, circumstance etc) then it wouldn't stack? The penalty given in the spell isn't named as far as i know. can you point me towards the right quote that would say it doesn't stack? as for the 50% chance ...yeah, having that stack would be ridiculous. Not sure about the ability scores tho. minimum of one doesnt mean you can't drop it repreatedly down till you hit one. still, i like this spell and want to use it alot but i'd rather not abuse it.
seraphin138 12-13-05, 03:54 AM	indeed i phrased my meaning rather poorly : the decrease does stack but you can't kill someone with it ( not directly anyway) ; you can keep casting the spell until his caracteristic drops to one hmm... as an afterthought... which makes someone with a wand of bestow curse a powerful person indeed... well maybe you can target one caracteristic only once... i'll check the faq if i see anything ;)
Black Mantha 12-13-05, 04:03 AM	with the penalty to saves and checks , i thought that only if the penalty type was named (ie competence, profane, circumstance etc) then it wouldn't stack? The penalty given in the spell isn't named as far as i know. can you point me towards the right quote that would say it doesn't stack? Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies. They did away with named penalties in 3.5. Furthermore, this line indicates that a decrease wouldn't stack, just as a penalty wouldn't. Consider this, though: Empowered,Maximised ray of enbeeblement + bestow curse. -22 to strength. Anything using equipment is lost, and enerything else takes -11 to attacks and damage.
seraphin138 12-13-05, 04:22 AM	i'd say : multiple castings of the same spell do not stack and i think i remember the rules saying so but i don't have them here with me so you can't cast bestow curse twice to drop someone's strength (or other) caracteristic to 1 you can cast multiple rays of enfeeblement but! only the worst penalty will apply as long as they are both in effect ( suration : 1 min ) and of course the penalty of the appropriate csating when the one spell runs out and only the other remains as to wether bestow curse and ray of enffeblement stack with each other... the sources for the penalty are very different indeed and one is permanent and the other not so i'd say yes :) however... i'm unsure about how you get -22 to strength... maximised : 11 (assuming you'r high enough level) empowered : 1d6 x 1.5 (rounded down) +5 bestow curse : 6 which makes the penalty go between 23 and 31 :)
seraphin138 12-13-05, 04:23 AM	read your quote of the rules only now ;) that will teach me only to read answers in mails...
Rhomphaia 12-13-05, 05:41 AM	They did away with named penalties in 3.5. Furthermore, this line indicates that a decrease wouldn't stack, just as a penalty wouldn't. Consider this, though: Empowered,Maximised ray of enbeeblement + bestow curse. -22 to strength. Anything using equipment is lost, and enerything else takes -11 to attacks and damage. emphasis mine They did away with what?! Please do not make me post every instance of a named bonus or penalty in the 3.5 PHB. I read the entire section you quoted from the PHB, and I would be inclined to believe you except for one thing. That entire section deals with bonuses and penalties. There is no mention of increases or decreases or any other sort of ability score modification (ability damage or drain or similar) of any sort. The paragraph you quoted goes on to give an example using Ray of Enfeeblement, a spell that specifically states a penalty. If they meant the quote to apply to things other than bonuses and penalties, I think they might have used an example like Bestow Curse instead. At best, this is a rules interpretation. You could really swing either way on the issue. Personally, I go by the wording of the spell itself, seeing as there is a lack of a definitive blanket ruling otherwise on increases or decreases to ability scores. Perhaps we should write WotC and ask for at least a FAQ answer on this.