Bestow Curse Stacking [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bestow Curse Stacking [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
allenthailand
12-09-05, 02:50 PM I was wondering, what happens if someone is hit by multiple bestow curses? Certainly the three effects could all co-exist, but could you hit someone for a -6 to Con, then another -6 to Con, and so on?
Argamoth
12-09-05, 03:10 PM Personaly I'd say you can't curse a person more than once at a time, since it's a permanent spell.
cwslyclgh
12-09-05, 03:18 PM penalties in D&D stack, unless they come from the same source, since BC imposes a penalty it will not stack with itself to lower an ability score that has already been lowered. using it to lower two different ability scores would be fine however.
Rhomphaia
12-09-05, 03:23 PM Here is Bestow Curse from the SRD;

Bestow Curse
Necromancy
Level: Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You place a curse on the subject. Choose one of the following three effects.
–6 decrease to an ability score (minimum 1).
–4 penalty on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks.
-Each turn, the target has a 50% chance to act normally; otherwise, it takes no action.

You may also invent your own curse, but it should be no more powerful than those described above.
The curse bestowed by this spell cannot be dispelled, but it can be removed with a break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, remove curse, or wish spell.
Bestow curse counters remove curse.

Now, the 50% inaction each round really can't stack and the penalty to pretty much every action cannot stack, since it is from the same source. However, the decrease to an ability score can and does stack. It is a decrease, not a penalty. A lot of people get that wrong. This means until the ability score hits 1, you can hit the same target on the same ability score over and over again.

Houserules may say otherwise, but those are not RAW.
kinem
12-09-05, 10:40 PM I wouldn't let the same curse stack. Decrease/penalty sounds like the same thing to me - the point is that it's not damage or drain. However, it's not too hard to use a variety of curses.
Sarlax
12-10-05, 02:06 AM I wouldn't let the same curse stack. Decrease/penalty sounds like the same thing to me - the point is that it's not damage or drain. However, it's not too hard to use a variety of curses.
I tend to agree. While the RAW says what it says, I think there's an obvious implicit meaning, which is that "effects usually don't stack." The DM's job, among other things, is to step in at this point and judge whether you should be able to curse someone with a dull mind 100 times for a -600 Intelligence penalty, or if you should only be able to pull off that move once.
Rhomphaia
12-10-05, 04:01 AM I tend to agree. While the RAW says what it says, I think there's an obvious implicit meaning, which is that "effects usually don't stack." The DM's job, among other things, is to step in at this point and judge whether you should be able to curse someone with a dull mind 100 times for a -600 Intelligence penalty, or if you should only be able to pull off that move once.
emphasis mine

Just because you think there is an obvious meaning, doesn't make it the rules as written, it makes it a house rule. Where exactly does it say that effects don't usually stack. The only effect that I can think of that in blanket terms doesn't stack are penalties/bonuses of the same name or from the same source.

Once more, look at the wording. Decrease and penalty are NOT the same. If they were the same, then they would both be called either 'decrease' or they would both be called 'penalty'. The only implicit meaning here is that you can use this version of Bestow Curse multiple times, according to RAW.
runestar
12-10-05, 06:49 AM You are right. Going by a strict reading of the spell, it seems that multiple uses of the 1st option of bestow curse does stack.

Arcane reach, here I come..... :)
Sarlax
12-10-05, 01:44 PM Just because you think there is an obvious meaning, doesn't make it the rules as written, it makes it a house rule. Where exactly does it say that effects don't usually stack.
As I indicated, I was talking about DM judgement in recognizing where there can be problems with the RAW. I never argued that "This is how it works by the rules," but rather implied that it's reasonable for a DM to step in and say, "We know what the RAW says, but we aren't slaves to it, and in this instance, there's a better way to go."
Rhomphaia
12-11-05, 12:30 AM And just how is it a better way to go exactly? That in itself is personal opinion, and that is not what the OP asked for. The original poster did not ask for house rules either.

The poster merely asked if Bestow Curse stacked, and by RAW, the -6 decrease to an ability score does. The other listed effects do not.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
allenthailand 12-09-05, 02:50 PM	I was wondering, what happens if someone is hit by multiple bestow curses? Certainly the three effects could all co-exist, but could you hit someone for a -6 to Con, then another -6 to Con, and so on?
Argamoth 12-09-05, 03:10 PM	Personaly I'd say you can't curse a person more than once at a time, since it's a permanent spell.
cwslyclgh 12-09-05, 03:18 PM	penalties in D&D stack, unless they come from the same source, since BC imposes a penalty it will not stack with itself to lower an ability score that has already been lowered. using it to lower two different ability scores would be fine however.
Rhomphaia 12-09-05, 03:23 PM	Here is Bestow Curse from the SRD; Bestow Curse Necromancy Level: Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Creature touched Duration: Permanent Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes You place a curse on the subject. Choose one of the following three effects. –6 decrease to an ability score (minimum 1). –4 penalty on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks. -Each turn, the target has a 50% chance to act normally; otherwise, it takes no action. You may also invent your own curse, but it should be no more powerful than those described above. The curse bestowed by this spell cannot be dispelled, but it can be removed with a break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, remove curse, or wish spell. Bestow curse counters remove curse. Now, the 50% inaction each round really can't stack and the penalty to pretty much every action cannot stack, since it is from the same source. However, the decrease to an ability score can and does stack. It is a decrease, not a penalty. A lot of people get that wrong. This means until the ability score hits 1, you can hit the same target on the same ability score over and over again. Houserules may say otherwise, but those are not RAW.
kinem 12-09-05, 10:40 PM	I wouldn't let the same curse stack. Decrease/penalty sounds like the same thing to me - the point is that it's not damage or drain. However, it's not too hard to use a variety of curses.
Sarlax 12-10-05, 02:06 AM	I wouldn't let the same curse stack. Decrease/penalty sounds like the same thing to me - the point is that it's not damage or drain. However, it's not too hard to use a variety of curses. I tend to agree. While the RAW says what it says, I think there's an obvious implicit meaning, which is that "effects usually don't stack." The DM's job, among other things, is to step in at this point and judge whether you should be able to curse someone with a dull mind 100 times for a -600 Intelligence penalty, or if you should only be able to pull off that move once.
Rhomphaia 12-10-05, 04:01 AM	I tend to agree. While the RAW says what it says, I think there's an obvious implicit meaning, which is that "effects usually don't stack." The DM's job, among other things, is to step in at this point and judge whether you should be able to curse someone with a dull mind 100 times for a -600 Intelligence penalty, or if you should only be able to pull off that move once. emphasis mine Just because you think there is an obvious meaning, doesn't make it the rules as written, it makes it a house rule. Where exactly does it say that effects don't usually stack. The only effect that I can think of that in blanket terms doesn't stack are penalties/bonuses of the same name or from the same source. Once more, look at the wording. Decrease and penalty are NOT the same. If they were the same, then they would both be called either 'decrease' or they would both be called 'penalty'. The only implicit meaning here is that you can use this version of Bestow Curse multiple times, according to RAW.
runestar 12-10-05, 06:49 AM	You are right. Going by a strict reading of the spell, it seems that multiple uses of the 1st option of bestow curse does stack. Arcane reach, here I come..... :)
Sarlax 12-10-05, 01:44 PM	Just because you think there is an obvious meaning, doesn't make it the rules as written, it makes it a house rule. Where exactly does it say that effects don't usually stack. As I indicated, I was talking about DM judgement in recognizing where there can be problems with the RAW. I never argued that "This is how it works by the rules," but rather implied that it's reasonable for a DM to step in and say, "We know what the RAW says, but we aren't slaves to it, and in this instance, there's a better way to go."
Rhomphaia 12-11-05, 12:30 AM	And just how is it a better way to go exactly? That in itself is personal opinion, and that is not what the OP asked for. The original poster did not ask for house rules either. The poster merely asked if Bestow Curse stacked, and by RAW, the -6 decrease to an ability score does. The other listed effects do not.