Big stuff in little packages [Archive] - Wizards Community

Big stuff in little packages [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Iver Gearsham
08-11-06, 04:20 PM I love Shrink Item and have spent huge amounts of time figuring out ways to use it. (Extend is my favorite Meta Feat)
Generally, I make things that I Shrink with Fabricate, Stone Shape, Vitrify from Sand Storm, Wall of Iron (Ask a village blacksmith for 2 tons of Iron you will learn to cast it too), Transmute Rock to Mud, Water to Acid from Stormwrack, Transmute Rock to Lava.

With a Bottle of Endless Sand from SandStorm you can make sand dunes to cast Vitrify on. This will give you glass (probably very ugly brown glass you couldn’t see through) Stone Shape (or make Glass Shape), Fabricate it in to the Jars/Tanks to handle the Acid your about to make.

Water to Acid 3 lvl. Let’s you make 1cubic foot per lvl. of acid quickly with no expense but time with an Instant duration so it can’t be Dispelled or AMFed.

Minimum caster levels two casting of WtA is the max for the lowest lvl casting of Shrink Item. This is equivalent to over 100 flasks of acid.
I use them to destroy walls; bridge supports, Foundations (with a lot more acid), bore holes in floors, and burn trolls to mush. On the inside of a building stuck in cloth form on the ceiling you can rain acid down on command to a designated spot/s.

Transmute Rock to Mud Is great for throwing on foes with AMF up.
When preparing to receive waves of foes to a defending position you can toss out gobs of Shrunk TRM mud too make hazardous terrain that you can turn back to rock with a Dispell Magic casting to trap foes feet (or more with Improved Trip!) in rock.
Stick cloth form TRM too the ceiling rain mud down on them then Dispell Magic and you have modern art statues.

TRM mud can be worked in a similar fashion to concrete to make large stone items by molding the mud and dispelling it.

Vitrified sand can be used in many ways like TRM with the added fire damage and entrapment potential of the cooling glass Very nasty.

Transmute Rock to Lava as useful as Acid, TRM and Vitrify only more fire damage a better chance of entombing your foes.

Boiling water is a cheap and easy attack and deterrent Shrunk weapons.
Boiling oil is more expensive but way more dangerous.

Early on I like to make 10’’ by 7’’wooden archer barricades for cover and block hallways.

Using A&E skills with Crafting and we get these.
Using Shrink Item to carry these things about.
None casters can gain use of them through a Ring of Minor Spell storing you can share with the whole group.

Whirling Flail
Height: 3 ft.
Weight: 300 lbs.
Shape: Pyramid
Attacks: 4 at +10
Damage: 1d10+4
Duration: 2d4 rounds
Cost: 200 gp.

When tossed or activated by command word the side panels unfold (they are springloaded hinges at the base of the pyramid) with enough force to "right" (flip it so the correct point is facing up) the weapon spins four heavy flails attacking everything in 5 ft. of the square it lands in.
It can attack for 2d4 rounds; Moving into its area while active draws 4 attacks.

Sprayer
Height: 3 ft.
Weight: 300 lbs.
Shape: Pyramid
Attacks: 10-ft. area
Damage: As liquid
Duration: 2d4 rounds*
Cost: 200 gp. Plus liquid

When tossed or activated by command word the side panels unfold (they are springloaded hinges at the base of the pyramid) with enough force to "right" (flip it so the correct point is facing up) the weapon spins “Wetting” everything in 10ft. Of the square it lands in.
It can spray for 2d4 rounds, Moving into its area while active draws the effect of the liquid.
Default liquid: Fiery Boiling Oil Damage 2d6 heat and fire Reflex save for half damage must make DC 15 Reflex save after taking damage or burn for 1d6 extra damage every round until save is made or you are extinguished.

Jumping Jacks
Weight: 100 lbs.
Shape: [_
]
Attacks: 20-ft. area at +10
Damage: 2d8 +4
Duration: 1d4 rounds
Cost: 100 gp.
When tossed or activated by command word the Large sized Greatclubs rotate with enough force to flip it’s self into the air randomly bouncing around slamming everything with its clubs.
Reflex save DC 15 for no damage every round.

Description two greatclubs facing opposite directions connected at the base by a coiled spring.

Battle platform
5-ft. square
6-ft. tall platform at midpoint (3-ft.)
Material wood or iron
Cost: 25gp. Wood. 50 gp. Iron
It takes a Standard Action to activate and a Move action to mount the battle platform.
When on a Battle platform you gain +1 to hit for higher ground advantage.
+4 AC to Melee and Ranged attacks due to cover.
+2 on Reflex saves that originate or burst out from a point on the other side of the cover.
Due to cover Attacks of Opportunity for drinking a potion, Casting a spell or using a Ranged weapon in melee are negated. (To verify check pg.’s 150 to 151 PHB)

Any comments? Additions? Questions? Or post your own ideas please!
tarkin
08-11-06, 05:01 PM If I were your DM, this is what I would tell you:

1) How you get the acid is mostly irrelevant, as is how you get the equiptment you store it. No need to discuss a possibly questionable method. You can always buy a house sized barrel of acid. Particularly because you have a hidden assumption that the acid you make does not damage the admittly poor quality glass you make. This assumption is false. No where in d20 does it say glass is immune to acid, particularly not the poor quality one you create

2) The damage from the acid will also not work the way you think it does. Non-magical acid is quite frankly, not a stackable thing, except in special circumstances. Liquids drip off items, that is why there is no "extra large vial of acid". The max damage you can do is 20d6 and then only if the item is totally immersed in it, which would require you to first build some kind of holding tank around the structure you want the acid to eat. Without that holding tank, your acid is going to do something on the order of 5 - 10d6, total. This damage is too small to be worth the effort.

3) Again, unless you have a very generous DM, throwing shrunken items results in a projectile with a "low momentum", that falls to the ground when it expands. Energy is conserved, not speed. So when they increase in size, they spread all the energy that used to be in that tiny mass to the much bigger mass, resulting in a forward speed that is ridiculously slow. They fall to the ground before doing any damage. You can however try dropping things above someone's head, at least you might hit the target (although the saving throw is generally easy to make.)

4) Your idea of using Transmute Rock to Mud as concreted in molds work very well. But most people prefer the 3rd level cleric/4th level wizard spell Stone Shape.

5) Because of the problems with throwing things, in general it is not a smart idea to throw a shrunken item, even lava. Dropping them can make a some sense, but again, saving throw DC's are so low that it is not worth it.

6) All those negative comments, now finally for some positive ones.

I see no problem whatsoever with the idea of making portable trap/battle field devices/aids that you shrink and throw.

I like the idea, and would allow your various devices to work.
Why should the DM be the only person using traps against his enemey.
Iver Gearsham
08-16-06, 06:36 PM Well tarkin I like your comments but you are under estimating the value of having the liquid weapons. Each of the types mentioned is available to a caster for just the time it takes to cast the spells and they (the caster) have effective weapons they can use when spending a spell fighting the cannon fodder is just a wast.
For example a party of 4 tenth level PCs squares off with 10 4th level orc fighters on the way to a orc fortress.
PC fighter,cleric and rogue will engage most of them and typically the party wizard gets to do nothing or shoot a crossbow if he can hit the full AC (Boring!) I prefer to do a ranged touch attack for 5d6 to 10d6 of damage on the foe and make him Cleaveage for the PC fighter to work on.

1: Ugly glass is not poor quality it just is not suitable to make pretty translucent objects or windows out of. The other point is to not spend a fortune on getting the base weapon.

2: I would like to see were it says Acid or other energy types are not stackable Please provide a Quote. 5d6 to 10d6 is great for a thrown Ranged Touch Attack just what my DM has it do :) and I like it it gives me a punch equal to a fighters attack that's easy to do and doesn't cost me an arm and a leg or one of my spells for the day.

3: I assume your addressing boulder throwers with that one and as I have not attempted to do so with my presentations.

4: Stone Shape is good but has 30% error factor in what you make. Or you could just build your molds with precision for a small too zero error factor and greater volume of effected material.

5: It is your opinion for what the DC's should be so I will go with the Attack roll Total equals the Reflex save that my DM uses.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Iver Gearsham 08-11-06, 04:20 PM	I love Shrink Item and have spent huge amounts of time figuring out ways to use it. (Extend is my favorite Meta Feat) Generally, I make things that I Shrink with Fabricate, Stone Shape, Vitrify from Sand Storm, Wall of Iron (Ask a village blacksmith for 2 tons of Iron you will learn to cast it too), Transmute Rock to Mud, Water to Acid from Stormwrack, Transmute Rock to Lava. With a Bottle of Endless Sand from SandStorm you can make sand dunes to cast Vitrify on. This will give you glass (probably very ugly brown glass you couldn’t see through) Stone Shape (or make Glass Shape), Fabricate it in to the Jars/Tanks to handle the Acid your about to make. Water to Acid 3 lvl. Let’s you make 1cubic foot per lvl. of acid quickly with no expense but time with an Instant duration so it can’t be Dispelled or AMFed. Minimum caster levels two casting of WtA is the max for the lowest lvl casting of Shrink Item. This is equivalent to over 100 flasks of acid. I use them to destroy walls; bridge supports, Foundations (with a lot more acid), bore holes in floors, and burn trolls to mush. On the inside of a building stuck in cloth form on the ceiling you can rain acid down on command to a designated spot/s. Transmute Rock to Mud Is great for throwing on foes with AMF up. When preparing to receive waves of foes to a defending position you can toss out gobs of Shrunk TRM mud too make hazardous terrain that you can turn back to rock with a Dispell Magic casting to trap foes feet (or more with Improved Trip!) in rock. Stick cloth form TRM too the ceiling rain mud down on them then Dispell Magic and you have modern art statues. TRM mud can be worked in a similar fashion to concrete to make large stone items by molding the mud and dispelling it. Vitrified sand can be used in many ways like TRM with the added fire damage and entrapment potential of the cooling glass Very nasty. Transmute Rock to Lava as useful as Acid, TRM and Vitrify only more fire damage a better chance of entombing your foes. Boiling water is a cheap and easy attack and deterrent Shrunk weapons. Boiling oil is more expensive but way more dangerous. Early on I like to make 10’’ by 7’’wooden archer barricades for cover and block hallways. Using A&E skills with Crafting and we get these. Using Shrink Item to carry these things about. None casters can gain use of them through a Ring of Minor Spell storing you can share with the whole group. Whirling Flail Height: 3 ft. Weight: 300 lbs. Shape: Pyramid Attacks: 4 at +10 Damage: 1d10+4 Duration: 2d4 rounds Cost: 200 gp. When tossed or activated by command word the side panels unfold (they are springloaded hinges at the base of the pyramid) with enough force to "right" (flip it so the correct point is facing up) the weapon spins four heavy flails attacking everything in 5 ft. of the square it lands in. It can attack for 2d4 rounds; Moving into its area while active draws 4 attacks. Sprayer Height: 3 ft. Weight: 300 lbs. Shape: Pyramid Attacks: 10-ft. area Damage: As liquid Duration: 2d4 rounds* Cost: 200 gp. Plus liquid When tossed or activated by command word the side panels unfold (they are springloaded hinges at the base of the pyramid) with enough force to "right" (flip it so the correct point is facing up) the weapon spins “Wetting” everything in 10ft. Of the square it lands in. It can spray for 2d4 rounds, Moving into its area while active draws the effect of the liquid. Default liquid: Fiery Boiling Oil Damage 2d6 heat and fire Reflex save for half damage must make DC 15 Reflex save after taking damage or burn for 1d6 extra damage every round until save is made or you are extinguished. Jumping Jacks Weight: 100 lbs. Shape: [_ ] Attacks: 20-ft. area at +10 Damage: 2d8 +4 Duration: 1d4 rounds Cost: 100 gp. When tossed or activated by command word the Large sized Greatclubs rotate with enough force to flip it’s self into the air randomly bouncing around slamming everything with its clubs. Reflex save DC 15 for no damage every round. Description two greatclubs facing opposite directions connected at the base by a coiled spring. Battle platform 5-ft. square 6-ft. tall platform at midpoint (3-ft.) Material wood or iron Cost: 25gp. Wood. 50 gp. Iron It takes a Standard Action to activate and a Move action to mount the battle platform. When on a Battle platform you gain +1 to hit for higher ground advantage. +4 AC to Melee and Ranged attacks due to cover. +2 on Reflex saves that originate or burst out from a point on the other side of the cover. Due to cover Attacks of Opportunity for drinking a potion, Casting a spell or using a Ranged weapon in melee are negated. (To verify check pg.’s 150 to 151 PHB) Any comments? Additions? Questions? Or post your own ideas please!
tarkin 08-11-06, 05:01 PM	If I were your DM, this is what I would tell you: 1) How you get the acid is mostly irrelevant, as is how you get the equiptment you store it. No need to discuss a possibly questionable method. You can always buy a house sized barrel of acid. Particularly because you have a hidden assumption that the acid you make does not damage the admittly poor quality glass you make. This assumption is false. No where in d20 does it say glass is immune to acid, particularly not the poor quality one you create 2) The damage from the acid will also not work the way you think it does. Non-magical acid is quite frankly, not a stackable thing, except in special circumstances. Liquids drip off items, that is why there is no "extra large vial of acid". The max damage you can do is 20d6 and then only if the item is totally immersed in it, which would require you to first build some kind of holding tank around the structure you want the acid to eat. Without that holding tank, your acid is going to do something on the order of 5 - 10d6, total. This damage is too small to be worth the effort. 3) Again, unless you have a very generous DM, throwing shrunken items results in a projectile with a "low momentum", that falls to the ground when it expands. Energy is conserved, not speed. So when they increase in size, they spread all the energy that used to be in that tiny mass to the much bigger mass, resulting in a forward speed that is ridiculously slow. They fall to the ground before doing any damage. You can however try dropping things above someone's head, at least you might hit the target (although the saving throw is generally easy to make.) 4) Your idea of using Transmute Rock to Mud as concreted in molds work very well. But most people prefer the 3rd level cleric/4th level wizard spell Stone Shape. 5) Because of the problems with throwing things, in general it is not a smart idea to throw a shrunken item, even lava. Dropping them can make a some sense, but again, saving throw DC's are so low that it is not worth it. 6) All those negative comments, now finally for some positive ones. I see no problem whatsoever with the idea of making portable trap/battle field devices/aids that you shrink and throw. I like the idea, and would allow your various devices to work. Why should the DM be the only person using traps against his enemey.
Iver Gearsham 08-16-06, 06:36 PM	Well tarkin I like your comments but you are under estimating the value of having the liquid weapons. Each of the types mentioned is available to a caster for just the time it takes to cast the spells and they (the caster) have effective weapons they can use when spending a spell fighting the cannon fodder is just a wast. For example a party of 4 tenth level PCs squares off with 10 4th level orc fighters on the way to a orc fortress. PC fighter,cleric and rogue will engage most of them and typically the party wizard gets to do nothing or shoot a crossbow if he can hit the full AC (Boring!) I prefer to do a ranged touch attack for 5d6 to 10d6 of damage on the foe and make him Cleaveage for the PC fighter to work on. 1: Ugly glass is not poor quality it just is not suitable to make pretty translucent objects or windows out of. The other point is to not spend a fortune on getting the base weapon. 2: I would like to see were it says Acid or other energy types are not stackable Please provide a Quote. 5d6 to 10d6 is great for a thrown Ranged Touch Attack just what my DM has it do :) and I like it it gives me a punch equal to a fighters attack that's easy to do and doesn't cost me an arm and a leg or one of my spells for the day. 3: I assume your addressing boulder throwers with that one and as I have not attempted to do so with my presentations. 4: Stone Shape is good but has 30% error factor in what you make. Or you could just build your molds with precision for a small too zero error factor and greater volume of effected material. 5: It is your opinion for what the DC's should be so I will go with the Attack roll Total equals the Reflex save that my DM uses.