Post/Author/DateTime	Post
danzibr 02-27-07, 01:48 PM	Well, the question may not be so big, but I've wondered and wondered this and have never found an answer... Okay, so let's say Bill is a level 5 Druid. Can he cast Summon Nature's Ally III (or whatever that spell is) five round in a row, then have a whole bunch of creatures out on the fifth turn? Soretomo, can he only do one at a time? It seems like someone with the summoning buffing feat would be overpowered if the latter were true. Dan
The_Ditto 02-27-07, 01:56 PM	Okay, so let's say Bill is a level 5 Druid. Can he cast Summon Nature's Ally III (or whatever that spell is) five round in a row, then have a whole bunch of creatures out on the fifth turn? Yep, why not? Mind you, since he is only level 5, just as he finishes casting the 5th spell, the first summoned monster(s) dissappear ... but that's beside the point .. ;) It seems like someone with the summoning buffing feat would be overpowered if the latter were true. Dan Might seem like that, but he's spending quite the resources to spit that stuff out.
tarkin 02-27-07, 01:57 PM	You would have to do it this way: 1st round, begin to cast. 2nd round. End casting, get creatures from first summoning. Begin to cast again. 3rd round, End casting, get creatures from second summoning. Begin to cast again. 4th ... The major problem with Summon X is the full round action, and the fact that usually the creature summoned does less net damage than casting a spell of the original level. Summoning spells are good 'variable' spells in that you can use them for a number of different things. Trap disarming is a prime example. In combat, they tend to be good for flanking, damage sponges defences, and dealing with wierd creatures (need a flyer/swimmer/creature with a fire attack...)
danzibr 02-27-07, 01:58 PM	Oh, I thought because the duration was 1 round/lvl they lasted 5 full rounds... Wait, what? On the sixth round they would start disappearing, one round at a time, right? Come to think of it, I suppose he wouldn't have that many spells. Still, casting all the high lvl summon spells just seems overpowered. And by that I mean my fiancee played as a cleric and summoned animals and everybody else in the party stank in comparison. Cool little badgers. EDIT: Wait, I just read that... so if a spell is a full round action the outcome doesn't happen until the beginning of the next round? Dan
BW0222 02-27-07, 03:59 PM	danzibr, Oh, I thought because the duration was 1 round/lvl they lasted 5 full rounds... Wait, what? On the sixth round they would start disappearing, one round at a time, right? Correct. Come to think of it, I suppose he wouldn't have that many spells. Correct. With a wisdom bonus, he'd still only have two third level spells. He could start summoning 2nd-level or 1st-level creatures. Still, casting all the high lvl summon spells just seems overpowered. And by that I mean my fiancee played as a cleric and summoned animals and everybody else in the party stank in comparison. Cool little badgers. Not really. They have limits. First, as a full round spell, you can be easily interupted if you are hit until your next initiative. i.e. you are typically waiting through every opponents initiative and they ususually see you casting. Almost impossible to get off in melee, without blockers, or again spellcasters or archers who aren't currently busy. Second, as a full round spell, you can't move more than 5'. i.e. you can't more out and cast, or cast and then move to cover. You are typically out in the open. Third, as a full round spell, they don't affect your opponents that round. i.e. you aren't dropping anyone that round, so they can attack, move, etc. Forth, because the spell has a limited range (short), you either need to be fairly close, or the creature needs to waste time moving. Sixth, most creatures two spell levels from your max, are of no use in higher level combats. For example, at APL 5, 1st-level summoned monsters are pretty much useless. At APL 7, 2nd-levels are pretty much useless. Often folks can just ignore them, cleave through them, or blast them away with area spells. Thus, typically only your high-level spell slots are of any use. Seven, protection from good/evil/law/chaos effectively neutralizes summon creatures. Eight, the spell only last one round per level. Until you are at least 5th or so, most times it is fairly pointless to summon stuff. Nine, they slow combat down is not used properly. Druid creatures (especially elementals) are powerful spells. However, most other classes typically have better spell choices of their level. EDIT: Wait, I just read that... so if a spell is a full round action the outcome doesn't happen until the beginning of the next round? Correct. A full round spell is finished casting (and takes effect) at the begining of your next initiative.
danzibr 02-27-07, 07:36 PM	Thank you, BWO222. Is that a O or a 0? Anyways, that clears stuff up a lot. Not nearly as overpowered as I thought. Especially the monster thing. Dan