Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lassar 10-20-05, 03:41 PM	Hej everyone, i have a few questions on this spell... 1. It mentions in the spell description that the Hand needs to make an attack first before starting a grapple (as usual). In the grapple description it states that your opponent gets an attack of opportunity against that and if he deals damage the grapple attempt fails. The question is if this works for the spell as well? That would be really bad, I mean the hand has AC 20 and that shouldn't be a problem to hit at that level...it is a 7th lvl spell..what do you think? 2. what means 'immobile'? That is the description under being pinned..it says only that immobile is not the same as helpless! Do you only loose your Dex to AC when your pinned? Or do you get special disadvantages regarding Reflex-saves? (Just some backround information..I wanna grapple a horned devvil with that spell :-) Thanks a lot for your help.
solbergb 10-20-05, 03:47 PM	I'm pretty sure the intent is that it doesn't provoke an AOO given what the spell is for. Look at the 6th level spell...I think it can bull rush you without giving you the AOO as if you had the feat on the hand. I've not seen it ruled ever that you get an AOO (except if you have Close Quarters Combat feat) but your DM may feel differently, since the spell doesn't say. With respect to the second question, immobile just means "the grasping hand grapples and holds you, it doesn't do damage". Grapple by default prevents you from moving position on the battlemap without doing a "move the grapple" maneuver. So...the way I see it ruled in actual play and also what I believe the intent is (but I can't prove it because the spell descriptions are quite terse): Hand makes touch attack If Hand succeeds, hand does grapple check If grapple check succeeds, victim is considered "grappled" but takes no damage. Clear? (Crushing hand spell is needed to have it "squeeze") (with respect to pinning, the only difference vs being grappled is you are at an additional -4 to armor class for outside attackers, and your actions are limited to escaping the pin...which has the effect of only moving you into the less restricted "grappled" position. If you let the hand pin people instead of merely grappling them, you are significantly powering it up)
tarkin 10-20-05, 04:43 PM	The Grasping Hand is based on the Interposing Hand, and has all it's abilities. The interposing Hand says: The hand never provokes attacks of opportunity from opponents. So you don't need to worry about the AoO. ------ By Immobile it means you can't move, but get no other penalties because you are immobile. The definition of Pinned lists all actual penalties you get, immobile is being used as a generic english word, not as a special defined term. Basically it is -4 to AC, can't speak (unless he lets you), and can't move from that location, and are considered grappled. But Grappling does say: No Threatened Squares You don’t threaten any squares while grappling. No Dexterity Bonus You lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if you have one) against opponents you aren’t grappling. (You can still use it against opponents you are grappling.) So yes, you lose your Dex, against everyone except the Hand.
Lassar 10-21-05, 03:03 AM	Thanks, of course you are right! I had the Idea with AoO because it says in the spell description that it needs to make an attack to get contact, but of course that does not mean that the defender gets an AoO. Ups, I was afraid that I forgot something. Another question was if the Hand can pin an opponent as well. I was quite sure that the answer would be negative, but not 100% Thanks for clearing up!