Bigbys Grasping Hand [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bigbys Grasping Hand [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tackleberry
11-07-06, 05:20 PM Hi there,
I have searched the forums to see if this has been asked before but found nothing so I apologise if I missed it.

Can anyone tell me if a Bigbys Grasping Hand provokes attacks of opportunity when attempting to grapple?

It states in the PHB that the spell is similiar to Interposing Hand which does not provoke AOO's. But the interposing Hand is not trying to grapple.
However, there is no indication that if the hand attempted to grapple an opponent whether the opponent would get an AOO.

It is my opnion that it should provoke AOO as the spell allows no saving throw and considering a 12th level caster would summon a hand wth around +30 on its grapple mod, this seems a smidgeon overpowered.
My understading of the way the rules are written would suggest that as the rules do not specifically say it does not provoke AOO's then shouldnt we assume it does provoke AOO's. As this is the rule for grappling under normal circumstances.

Any comments?

Thanks.
Zaistars69
11-07-06, 08:37 PM The spell says specifically that it never provokes attacks of opportunity. That should spell it out pretty good. Never is an absolute. Does not provoke.
solbergb
11-08-06, 01:08 PM The other comment is that while the grapple check is large, it is not out of line with a typical CR12 creature that has improved grab.

By level 12, EL12-15 enemies have many, many defenses against grapple (freedom of movement, blinking, various dimensional travel powers etc) even if they can't beat the grapple check.

They can also just plain kill the hand. It isn't all that tough.
Zaistars69
11-08-06, 02:02 PM The other comment is that while the grapple check is large, it is not out of line with a typical CR12 creature that has improved grab.

By level 12, EL12-15 enemies have many, many defenses against grapple (freedom of movement, blinking, various dimensional travel powers etc) even if they can't beat the grapple check.

They can also just plain kill the hand. It isn't all that tough.
Blinking no worky, hand is force and force trumps ethereal. Dimensional travel is good as is freedom of movement (main reason why the freedom domain for clerics rules).
I once gappled and pinned a huge black dragon (my grapple check was like 1 higher than the dragon's and I am incredibly lucky). it was fun, I love the grasping hand spell. Shut down the baddy druid last week too. BWAHAHAHAHA.
solbergb
11-08-06, 03:23 PM Swap "gaseous form" with "blink" then.

I actually knew a L17 diviner whose contingency was gaseous form as a response to any attempt to impede his movement or to falling. I forget the exact wording but it was something like that.

Of course he probably thought of it because he uses the bigby hand spells and summoned earth elementals (awsome blow), combined with prismatic wall to devastating effect and probably didn't want to be hoist by his own petard (tossed through his own prismatic wall). He wasn't worried about mundane threats but he WAS worried about having his own nasty spells used against him.
Zaistars69
11-08-06, 04:32 PM Swap "gaseous form" with "blink" then.

I actually knew a L17 diviner whose contingency was gaseous form as a response to any attempt to impede his movement or to falling. I forget the exact wording but it was something like that.

Of course he probably thought of it because he uses the bigby hand spells and summoned earth elementals (awsome blow), combined with prismatic wall to devastating effect and probably didn't want to be hoist by his own petard (tossed through his own prismatic wall). He wasn't worried about mundane threats but he WAS worried about having his own nasty spells used against him.
The spell would work but it couldn't be pulled off if you were already grappled, barring a contingency. Then again metamagic feats are fun and can solve many of the problems with grapple.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tackleberry 11-07-06, 05:20 PM	Hi there, I have searched the forums to see if this has been asked before but found nothing so I apologise if I missed it. Can anyone tell me if a Bigbys Grasping Hand provokes attacks of opportunity when attempting to grapple? It states in the PHB that the spell is similiar to Interposing Hand which does not provoke AOO's. But the interposing Hand is not trying to grapple. However, there is no indication that if the hand attempted to grapple an opponent whether the opponent would get an AOO. It is my opnion that it should provoke AOO as the spell allows no saving throw and considering a 12th level caster would summon a hand wth around +30 on its grapple mod, this seems a smidgeon overpowered. My understading of the way the rules are written would suggest that as the rules do not specifically say it does not provoke AOO's then shouldnt we assume it does provoke AOO's. As this is the rule for grappling under normal circumstances. Any comments? Thanks.
Zaistars69 11-07-06, 08:37 PM	The spell says specifically that it never provokes attacks of opportunity. That should spell it out pretty good. Never is an absolute. Does not provoke.
solbergb 11-08-06, 01:08 PM	The other comment is that while the grapple check is large, it is not out of line with a typical CR12 creature that has improved grab. By level 12, EL12-15 enemies have many, many defenses against grapple (freedom of movement, blinking, various dimensional travel powers etc) even if they can't beat the grapple check. They can also just plain kill the hand. It isn't all that tough.
Zaistars69 11-08-06, 02:02 PM	The other comment is that while the grapple check is large, it is not out of line with a typical CR12 creature that has improved grab. By level 12, EL12-15 enemies have many, many defenses against grapple (freedom of movement, blinking, various dimensional travel powers etc) even if they can't beat the grapple check. They can also just plain kill the hand. It isn't all that tough. Blinking no worky, hand is force and force trumps ethereal. Dimensional travel is good as is freedom of movement (main reason why the freedom domain for clerics rules). I once gappled and pinned a huge black dragon (my grapple check was like 1 higher than the dragon's and I am incredibly lucky). it was fun, I love the grasping hand spell. Shut down the baddy druid last week too. BWAHAHAHAHA.
solbergb 11-08-06, 03:23 PM	Swap "gaseous form" with "blink" then. I actually knew a L17 diviner whose contingency was gaseous form as a response to any attempt to impede his movement or to falling. I forget the exact wording but it was something like that. Of course he probably thought of it because he uses the bigby hand spells and summoned earth elementals (awsome blow), combined with prismatic wall to devastating effect and probably didn't want to be hoist by his own petard (tossed through his own prismatic wall). He wasn't worried about mundane threats but he WAS worried about having his own nasty spells used against him.
Zaistars69 11-08-06, 04:32 PM	Swap "gaseous form" with "blink" then. I actually knew a L17 diviner whose contingency was gaseous form as a response to any attempt to impede his movement or to falling. I forget the exact wording but it was something like that. Of course he probably thought of it because he uses the bigby hand spells and summoned earth elementals (awsome blow), combined with prismatic wall to devastating effect and probably didn't want to be hoist by his own petard (tossed through his own prismatic wall). He wasn't worried about mundane threats but he WAS worried about having his own nasty spells used against him. The spell would work but it couldn't be pulled off if you were already grappled, barring a contingency. Then again metamagic feats are fun and can solve many of the problems with grapple.