Black Karma Curse vs. The Rogue [Archive] - Wizards Community

Black Karma Curse vs. The Rogue [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Velcro Zipper
05-06-07, 08:51 PM I submitted this question to the Sage but never heard back so, fellow gamers, what do you think of the following inquiry?

Would a Rogue failing a save against Black Karma Curse (PHBII pg.103) deal Sneak Attack damage to himself?

The description of the spell states a creature affected by the spell deals damage to itself using its most damaging attack form. Seems to me, that would include such things as Sneak Attack, Skirmish, Sudden Strike, and possibly even Power Attack among other things.

Thoughts?
jaelis
05-06-07, 09:05 PM The way it is worded, I'd say no. The "attack form" referred to sounds like it's talking about creatures with more than one weapon available, not more than one way to use a weapon. I think if it meant all that other stuff, the description would have been explicit about it.

But you could make a case for it if you wanted. You'd have to decide where to draw the line... power attack as you say? Would a creature with Improved Trip have to trip itself first? What about spell?
Velcro Zipper
05-07-07, 12:41 AM I'm just putting it out there for discussion. I could see it going either way.

Sneak Attack normally applies whenever an attack is made against a target who is denied its Dex mod to AC. The Rogue in this case would be denied his Dex bonus because he can't avoid the attack. However, I could see it being ruled against the sneak attack damage since he isn't making an attack roll.
MerlintheTuna
05-07-07, 04:02 AM Nah. Otherwise you'd have to make similar rulings for the local Barbarian, who would somehow be Power Attack/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper/Robilar's Gambit-ing himself. Best to keep it simple. Makes the spell a bit much; it's what, 2nd level?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Velcro Zipper 05-06-07, 08:51 PM	I submitted this question to the Sage but never heard back so, fellow gamers, what do you think of the following inquiry? Would a Rogue failing a save against Black Karma Curse (PHBII pg.103) deal Sneak Attack damage to himself? The description of the spell states a creature affected by the spell deals damage to itself using its most damaging attack form. Seems to me, that would include such things as Sneak Attack, Skirmish, Sudden Strike, and possibly even Power Attack among other things. Thoughts?
jaelis 05-06-07, 09:05 PM	The way it is worded, I'd say no. The "attack form" referred to sounds like it's talking about creatures with more than one weapon available, not more than one way to use a weapon. I think if it meant all that other stuff, the description would have been explicit about it. But you could make a case for it if you wanted. You'd have to decide where to draw the line... power attack as you say? Would a creature with Improved Trip have to trip itself first? What about spell?
Velcro Zipper 05-07-07, 12:41 AM	I'm just putting it out there for discussion. I could see it going either way. Sneak Attack normally applies whenever an attack is made against a target who is denied its Dex mod to AC. The Rogue in this case would be denied his Dex bonus because he can't avoid the attack. However, I could see it being ruled against the sneak attack damage since he isn't making an attack roll.
MerlintheTuna 05-07-07, 04:02 AM	Nah. Otherwise you'd have to make similar rulings for the local Barbarian, who would somehow be Power Attack/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper/Robilar's Gambit-ing himself. Best to keep it simple. Makes the spell a bit much; it's what, 2nd level?