Blade of Excessive Reaping - Balanced? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blade of Excessive Reaping - Balanced? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
IceFractal
10-30-06, 08:00 PM Just a simple question - does this seem like a balanced spell?

Blade of Excessive Reaping
Necromancy [Death]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates
SR: Yes

This spell conjures a scythe of black shimmering energy into your hands. The target struck by it must make a Fortitude save or take 5d6 damage/caster level, to a maximum of 100d6 at 20th level.
Damned slayer
10-30-06, 08:04 PM is this a serious question??
xpochian
10-30-06, 08:11 PM Yes, yes it is.

But seriously, no it isn't. Imagine a DM telling you that you've just been borked over by a halfling dexmonkeyzard who just flat-lined you for 459 damage, but thankfully you saved and only took 230!

Basically, it's a close up version of disintegrate. Making it a touch spell does not warrant an additional 3d6 of damage die per level, or fortitude negates bonus.
Heron_Marked_Blade
10-30-06, 08:28 PM Take a look at the DMG guideline for spell damage per spell level. 100d6 @ 20th level would be, by my calculations...a 59th-level spell. :eek:

Of course, epic spells rapidly escalate in power. A spell that deals 100d6 with no mitigating factors (besides touch spell and Fort saves) should be 12th or 13th level. That's just a damage basis. Most epic characters will have immunity to death effects from one source or another.

It's certainly not 5th level, that's for sure.
jaelis
10-30-06, 08:53 PM In what way is this spell stronger than slay living?

Note, there is no damage on a successful save. Slay living does 3d6+ even on a save. It's a [death] effect, so death ward will protect you from it. It's fine... underpowered if anything.

(No, it's not really underpowered. It's not as good as slay living, but slay living is a powerful spell.)

Edit: Looking closer, I see this isn't limited to living targets. Death effects usually are, I think. Is it intended to work against constructs and undead? Because they are immune to death effects anyway.

Edit again: Did you do this on purpose just to trick people? Because I think it worked.
The_Normal_Anomaly
10-30-06, 09:16 PM Congrats, you have just made a near if not epic spell of 9th level. What is so epic? 100d6 without backlash damage. From what I have seen, no non-epic spell ever hits 100d6 damage. Lets put this another way. List as many reasons you can think of for why not to take this spell, then list out as many reasons you can think of to take the spell. That is an incredible amount of damage, and I am sure that in it's present state, the CO boards would love for this spell to be canon. I dare say that this is a kid melee form of Vengeful Gaze of God. It is much less powerful, but it also doesn't kill you for using it either. VGoG deals a flat 305d6 to a single target within range (fort half) and deals 200d6 to the caster. Over three rounds your spell could deal 300d6 wothout any damage to the caster, avoiding 200 to 1200 points of damage. Sure, that would eat up spell slots, but anyone who has that spell would do whatever they could to use it more. I am not saying that this spell is bad, I am saying that the spell level needs revised.
CryoSilver
10-30-06, 09:20 PM Do you need to make a melee touch or a normal attack roll to hit?

It's balanced in either case; it's save or die, touch range.
Damned slayer
10-30-06, 09:58 PM were is it said that the scythe get dismissed on successfull it
so basicly it summons a permant death effect scythe
IceFractal
10-31-06, 12:55 AM As jaelis surmised, this is somewhat of a trick question. The spell was designed to look powerful, while in fact being slightly underpowered. It's just Slay Living with the description modified (actually, it's a bit weaker, as it doesn't do damage on a save and it could potentially fail to kill something with enough hp).

This doesn't allow multiple attacks - the scythe is just a flavor effect, and it's an instantaneous touch spell, thus one target. But it probably should be clarified if anyone actually uses this. As for the living target thing, I took that out to disguise the similarity to Slay Living, but I don't think it matters - are there any non-living targets vulnerable to death effects?

So why did I post it at all? Because I'd noticed, in the course of other spell discussions, that large numbers of dice seemed to hit the "broken" button for many, whether that was true or not. So I wanted to see if that extended to a case where the dice amount actually meant nothing. And it seems that it does. :thinks:
epifreak
10-31-06, 01:18 AM So why did I post it at all? Because I'd noticed, in the course of other spell discussions, that large numbers of dice seemed to hit the "broken" button for many, whether that was true or not. So I wanted to see if that extended to a case where the dice amount actually meant nothing. And it seems that it does. :thinks:

Well, yeah, admit it, you felt at least a little dirty writing 100d6 on a 5th level spell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
IceFractal 10-30-06, 08:00 PM	Just a simple question - does this seem like a balanced spell? Blade of Excessive Reaping Necromancy [Death] Level: Sor/Wiz 5 Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates SR: Yes This spell conjures a scythe of black shimmering energy into your hands. The target struck by it must make a Fortitude save or take 5d6 damage/caster level, to a maximum of 100d6 at 20th level.
Damned slayer 10-30-06, 08:04 PM	is this a serious question??
xpochian 10-30-06, 08:11 PM	Yes, yes it is. But seriously, no it isn't. Imagine a DM telling you that you've just been borked over by a halfling dexmonkeyzard who just flat-lined you for 459 damage, but thankfully you saved and only took 230! Basically, it's a close up version of disintegrate. Making it a touch spell does not warrant an additional 3d6 of damage die per level, or fortitude negates bonus.
Heron_Marked_Blade 10-30-06, 08:28 PM	Take a look at the DMG guideline for spell damage per spell level. 100d6 @ 20th level would be, by my calculations...a 59th-level spell. :eek: Of course, epic spells rapidly escalate in power. A spell that deals 100d6 with no mitigating factors (besides touch spell and Fort saves) should be 12th or 13th level. That's just a damage basis. Most epic characters will have immunity to death effects from one source or another. It's certainly not 5th level, that's for sure.
jaelis 10-30-06, 08:53 PM	In what way is this spell stronger than slay living? Note, there is no damage on a successful save. Slay living does 3d6+ even on a save. It's a [death] effect, so death ward will protect you from it. It's fine... underpowered if anything. (No, it's not really underpowered. It's not as good as slay living, but slay living is a powerful spell.) Edit: Looking closer, I see this isn't limited to living targets. Death effects usually are, I think. Is it intended to work against constructs and undead? Because they are immune to death effects anyway. Edit again: Did you do this on purpose just to trick people? Because I think it worked.
The_Normal_Anomaly 10-30-06, 09:16 PM	Congrats, you have just made a near if not epic spell of 9th level. What is so epic? 100d6 without backlash damage. From what I have seen, no non-epic spell ever hits 100d6 damage. Lets put this another way. List as many reasons you can think of for why not to take this spell, then list out as many reasons you can think of to take the spell. That is an incredible amount of damage, and I am sure that in it's present state, the CO boards would love for this spell to be canon. I dare say that this is a kid melee form of Vengeful Gaze of God. It is much less powerful, but it also doesn't kill you for using it either. VGoG deals a flat 305d6 to a single target within range (fort half) and deals 200d6 to the caster. Over three rounds your spell could deal 300d6 wothout any damage to the caster, avoiding 200 to 1200 points of damage. Sure, that would eat up spell slots, but anyone who has that spell would do whatever they could to use it more. I am not saying that this spell is bad, I am saying that the spell level needs revised.
CryoSilver 10-30-06, 09:20 PM	Do you need to make a melee touch or a normal attack roll to hit? It's balanced in either case; it's save or die, touch range.
Damned slayer 10-30-06, 09:58 PM	were is it said that the scythe get dismissed on successfull it so basicly it summons a permant death effect scythe
IceFractal 10-31-06, 12:55 AM	As jaelis surmised, this is somewhat of a trick question. The spell was designed to look powerful, while in fact being slightly underpowered. It's just Slay Living with the description modified (actually, it's a bit weaker, as it doesn't do damage on a save and it could potentially fail to kill something with enough hp). This doesn't allow multiple attacks - the scythe is just a flavor effect, and it's an instantaneous touch spell, thus one target. But it probably should be clarified if anyone actually uses this. As for the living target thing, I took that out to disguise the similarity to Slay Living, but I don't think it matters - are there any non-living targets vulnerable to death effects? So why did I post it at all? Because I'd noticed, in the course of other spell discussions, that large numbers of dice seemed to hit the "broken" button for many, whether that was true or not. So I wanted to see if that extended to a case where the dice amount actually meant nothing. And it seems that it does. :thinks:
epifreak 10-31-06, 01:18 AM	So why did I post it at all? Because I'd noticed, in the course of other spell discussions, that large numbers of dice seemed to hit the "broken" button for many, whether that was true or not. So I wanted to see if that extended to a case where the dice amount actually meant nothing. And it seems that it does. :thinks: Well, yeah, admit it, you felt at least a little dirty writing 100d6 on a 5th level spell.