Blasphemy and the word spells: Scary powerful! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blasphemy and the word spells: Scary powerful! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JasperDm
02-12-04, 01:57 AM I was running a chapter-ending scenario, and I had, as a vision of Meershaulk(sp?) rising in a yaun-ti community, I had 16 yuan-ti anathema as the city's high guard.

Now, even as I planned this to be nigh-impossible, I had one of the anathema speak Blasphemy through an arrow-slit. They cast this spell once a day, as 20th level casters. The party's NPC cohorts and hirelings all died instantly, as did the two heavily templated PCs. The rest were rendered helpless for 5 minutes! No save, and none of them have spell resistance! Now, this party was 11th level, and I do realize that the anathema is a CR 17. But I had not been aware of the new rules for Blasphemy, that allowed it to adjust with the caster level! Suddenly, just one of them was more than appropriate for his CR, and 16 was a death sentence, and I had to pull a ritual scene to save them from my own ineptitude.

However, here's my point. A 16th level cleric could have slammed the whole group with the helplessness, and coup-de-grace'd them all at his leisure, much less an Anathema. How did this spell become the new, nastier Harm?
Sheer_FALACY
02-12-04, 02:08 AM A 16th level cleric should be able to grind an 11th level heavily templated party beneath the heel of his boot without even noticing it. Blasphemy is quite a reasonable spell until you add caster level increasing stuff to it; killing 5 HD enemies is hardly impressive.

Also, are you complaining that the Anathema is now actually a CR 17 monster instead of whatever it really was before? Is it that bad that it can actually do something impressive against a party of CR - 6 characters?
PhaedrusXY
02-12-04, 02:08 AM Yes, and it only takes two core magic items and an alignment domain for a cleric to be able to paralyze enemies equal to their HD or lower. (Strand of Prayer Beads: Karma Bead, and an Orange Ioun Stone are the items). Expect your PCs to figure that out and turn this around on you very soon.
NorthSaber
02-12-04, 02:09 AM A lot of really nasty effects can be achieved by both PCs and NPCs through high-level scrolls if it is known that one side will be heavy on outsiders or members of a certain alignment. Another reason why alignments shouldn't have anything to do in the game except provide guidelines for roleplaying, if you ask me.

Some time ago our group, while fairly low level, saved a city from a horde of attackers with scrolls of Holy Word (or something like that), which essentially got rid of 90% of the enemy army as they were evil outsiders. The DM wasn't too happy.
Bopple
02-12-04, 02:38 AM The spells are plain silly. 1d10 minute paralyze part, especially.
dantedarkstar
02-12-04, 07:44 AM With CL buffs present in 3.5, these spells are broken. Especially with THE bead.
Add few Hierophant levels, and you have no-save multi-target insta-kill against enemy of equal HD. And since you have sick CL, SR won't matter anyway.

Just "great" spells.
Seeker95
02-12-04, 09:45 AM The complaints are coming in a little on the heavy-handed side.

A smart party has to recognize that as it advances in level and power, so will the enemies it faces. Players of high level characters need to spend a little more time on boosting defensive power as well as offensive.

And they need to learn to run away more frequently.

DMs also need to recognize that when they create an encounter from which they know the party should run away, they need to give the party an opportunity to run away.

The problem is not with the spell. You created an unbalanced, no-win, no-chance-to-leave scenario.
Sproik
02-12-04, 10:13 AM Originally posted by Seeker95
[Players of high level characters]...need to learn to run away more frequently.

Oh, the bitter irony! :D
Krelios
02-12-04, 10:20 AM Now, this party was 11th level, and I do realize that the anathema is a CR 17. But I had not been aware of the new rules for Blasphemy, that allowed it to adjust with the caster level! Suddenly, just one of them was more than appropriate for his CR, and 16 was a death sentence, and I had to pull a ritual scene to save them from my own ineptitude.

Ummm... An "almost impossible" encounter is listed as +5 CR or more (above the party's average level). Just ONE of those SHOULD have been deadly unless they ran, and you gave them no option to. There's nothing wrong with the spell there, if ANY sixteen monsters of a CR 6 higher than the party encountered them, they would win--hands down, every time.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JasperDm 02-12-04, 01:57 AM	I was running a chapter-ending scenario, and I had, as a vision of Meershaulk(sp?) rising in a yaun-ti community, I had 16 yuan-ti anathema as the city's high guard. Now, even as I planned this to be nigh-impossible, I had one of the anathema speak Blasphemy through an arrow-slit. They cast this spell once a day, as 20th level casters. The party's NPC cohorts and hirelings all died instantly, as did the two heavily templated PCs. The rest were rendered helpless for 5 minutes! No save, and none of them have spell resistance! Now, this party was 11th level, and I do realize that the anathema is a CR 17. But I had not been aware of the new rules for Blasphemy, that allowed it to adjust with the caster level! Suddenly, just one of them was more than appropriate for his CR, and 16 was a death sentence, and I had to pull a ritual scene to save them from my own ineptitude. However, here's my point. A 16th level cleric could have slammed the whole group with the helplessness, and coup-de-grace'd them all at his leisure, much less an Anathema. How did this spell become the new, nastier Harm?
Sheer_FALACY 02-12-04, 02:08 AM	A 16th level cleric should be able to grind an 11th level heavily templated party beneath the heel of his boot without even noticing it. Blasphemy is quite a reasonable spell until you add caster level increasing stuff to it; killing 5 HD enemies is hardly impressive. Also, are you complaining that the Anathema is now actually a CR 17 monster instead of whatever it really was before? Is it that bad that it can actually do something impressive against a party of CR - 6 characters?
PhaedrusXY 02-12-04, 02:08 AM	Yes, and it only takes two core magic items and an alignment domain for a cleric to be able to paralyze enemies equal to their HD or lower. (Strand of Prayer Beads: Karma Bead, and an Orange Ioun Stone are the items). Expect your PCs to figure that out and turn this around on you very soon.
NorthSaber 02-12-04, 02:09 AM	A lot of really nasty effects can be achieved by both PCs and NPCs through high-level scrolls if it is known that one side will be heavy on outsiders or members of a certain alignment. Another reason why alignments shouldn't have anything to do in the game except provide guidelines for roleplaying, if you ask me. Some time ago our group, while fairly low level, saved a city from a horde of attackers with scrolls of Holy Word (or something like that), which essentially got rid of 90% of the enemy army as they were evil outsiders. The DM wasn't too happy.
Bopple 02-12-04, 02:38 AM	The spells are plain silly. 1d10 minute paralyze part, especially.
dantedarkstar 02-12-04, 07:44 AM	With CL buffs present in 3.5, these spells are broken. Especially with THE bead. Add few Hierophant levels, and you have no-save multi-target insta-kill against enemy of equal HD. And since you have sick CL, SR won't matter anyway. Just "great" spells.
Seeker95 02-12-04, 09:45 AM	The complaints are coming in a little on the heavy-handed side. A smart party has to recognize that as it advances in level and power, so will the enemies it faces. Players of high level characters need to spend a little more time on boosting defensive power as well as offensive. And they need to learn to run away more frequently. DMs also need to recognize that when they create an encounter from which they know the party should run away, they need to give the party an opportunity to run away. The problem is not with the spell. You created an unbalanced, no-win, no-chance-to-leave scenario.
Sproik 02-12-04, 10:13 AM	Originally posted by Seeker95 [Players of high level characters]...need to learn to run away more frequently. Oh, the bitter irony! :D
Krelios 02-12-04, 10:20 AM	Now, this party was 11th level, and I do realize that the anathema is a CR 17. But I had not been aware of the new rules for Blasphemy, that allowed it to adjust with the caster level! Suddenly, just one of them was more than appropriate for his CR, and 16 was a death sentence, and I had to pull a ritual scene to save them from my own ineptitude. Ummm... An "almost impossible" encounter is listed as +5 CR or more (above the party's average level). Just ONE of those SHOULD have been deadly unless they ran, and you gave them no option to. There's nothing wrong with the spell there, if ANY sixteen monsters of a CR 6 higher than the party encountered them, they would win--hands down, every time.