Blessed Book errata? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blessed Book errata? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
angelroble
09-17-03, 04:06 PM From SRD.

Blessed Book: This well-made tome is always of small size, typically no more than 12 inches tall, 8 inches wide, and 1 inch thick. All such books are durable, waterproof, bound with iron overlaid with silver, and locked.
A wizard can fill the 1,000 pages of a blessed book with spells without paying the 25 gp per page material cost. This book is never found as randomly generated treasure with spells already inscribed in it.

25 gp per page? Is this an error, sure?
Sacrusha
09-17-03, 05:19 PM Is this an error Yes.sure? Yes.
You're not the first one asking. The general answer always was, that the PHB value is correct.
Capn Charlie
09-17-03, 06:49 PM Just for clarity's sake, the correct value would be?
chonjurer
09-17-03, 07:39 PM PHB, pg. 179 - 100gp/page (but only 1 page/spell level now)

On a side note, has anyone noticed the stupid prices for copying a spell out of someone else's spellbook?

They say 50gp/spell level to learn a spell out of someone else's book.

The cost for a 1st level scroll is 25 gp.

Something's not adding up here.
Seeker95
09-17-03, 08:41 PM chonjurer, the cost of the scroll is 25. The price to copy it to your spell book is 100gp. Total = 125.

That same 1st level spell from someone else's spellbook = 50gp.

Something is quite right.
chonjurer
09-17-03, 09:18 PM No, that is the fee that they charge you to copy it.

*THEY* charge you. It doesn't cover the scribing cost for your book as well.
Seeker95
09-17-03, 11:00 PM Oh. Well now. That is something entirely different!

Why would you pay anyone to do this in the first place?
chonjurer
09-18-03, 03:07 AM They are charging you a fee for the priviledge of looking at their spellbook and getting a spell that you don't already have.
Seeker95
09-18-03, 07:51 AM But if you pay for a scroll of the exact same spell (a service they are just as likely to provide) it is cheaper, and you walk away with the scroll to do with it as you wish.
The_Ditto
09-18-03, 11:01 AM Originally posted by Seeker95
But if you pay for a scroll of the exact same spell (a service they are just as likely to provide) it is cheaper, and you walk away with the scroll to do with it as you wish.

no xp hit on anyone ..

Sure, it's small ... but the fact is, there IS an xp hit ..
:D
chonjurer
09-18-03, 01:51 PM Originally posted by Seeker95
But if you pay for a scroll of the exact same spell (a service they are just as likely to provide) it is cheaper, and you walk away with the scroll to do with it as you wish.
:bored:

That was kind of my point, that you decided to argue against before reading the rules completely, and now are agreeing with.
Seeker95
09-18-03, 02:31 PM chonjurer, you use the word argue in your reply.

I was not arguing with you. I voiced an interpretation that was incorrect, you corrected it, and I recanted. If you consistently paint everyone as being against you, eventually, we will end up complying with that picture.
Wizard
09-18-03, 05:30 PM Originally posted by The_Ditto
no xp hit on anyone ..

Sure, it's small ... but the fact is, there IS an xp hit ..
:D

Well, apparently Seeker and chonjurer have kissed an made up, so that's over.

But Ditto, by your reasoning, the scroll ought to be more expensive. It takes no xp to scribe a spell into or out of a spellbook.

And it is 100gp, according to me, custserv, and the age-old rule of
"follow the original rule listing."
ArcaneGnome
09-18-03, 06:28 PM While you might end up paying less for that 1st level scroll, if you want any spell of higher level you pay more getting the scroll because you have to take into account the caster level. When just copying a 2nd level spell it's 100 gp (2*50) as opposed to 150gp for the scroll (2*3*25). So for simplicity's sake, the wiz just uses 50 gp/lvl to copy a spell. It just makes it easier.
Karlindel
09-18-03, 07:14 PM Also consider that a wizard may not have scrolls of all of the spells in his/her spellbook. Some wizards might even choose not to make scrolls of some of their more unique spells, to try to keep knowledge of them away from their competitors.

Also, not every option needs to be cost effective. Although copying a lvl 1 spell from someone else's spellbook may seem a bad idea(getting a scroll is cheaper), the option is there because copying from a spellbook at higher levels saves a lot of money(doesn't include caster level in the formula, so a lvl 3 spell is 150 gp from someone's book, 375 gp for the scroll). And the formula given takes up less space than a table of spell levels and costs. :D Personally, I up the price if the spell is high level or the wizard is higher level, but allow diplomacy rolls to haggle the price down a bit as well.
chonjurer
09-18-03, 07:30 PM Originally posted by Seeker95
I was not arguing with you. I voiced an interpretation that was incorrect, you corrected it, and I recanted.
I'm sorry if I see it differently. But it's over so I'm not going to drag it on.

Karlindel: The listed price is for standard, common spells which should, according to the by-wealth guidelines for cities, be available on scrolls. Why suddenly the 1st level scroll selection in towns disappears as soon as 3.5 gets printed because of greedy wizards baffles me.

While I realise that it is cheaper for higher level spells, (because the base cost is spell level*2*25 instead of spell level*caster level*25), at least you can decide to not use the higher-level scroll for copying if you want.

Note that you can use a prepared spell slot to copy into a book, so really the guy is charging you for 15 minutes use of his book, unless the spell is of a higher level than you can normally cast in which case it takes 1 day/spell level - quite a different expenditure of time.

Now if you take the 1 day/level I could easily see charging 50 gp/spell level (in fact, I would charge more for higher level spells as you can make substantially more doing other pursuits for a day than babysitting someone with your spellbook).

So there's the dumb way to do this: use spellcraft instead of a 0-level spell that all wizards can cast regardless of level and never lose access to so it takes you 8 hours to decipher the spell instead of a couple of seconds (note: the DCs on pg. 178 and pg. 82 contradict each other), and then take 1 day/level to copy it out.

All in all, it takes at least 1 day/level + 1 day of someone else's time.

Then there's the smart way: use Read Magic to instantly understand the spell, take 15 minutes to memorise it and be on your way to copy it into your spell book.

All in all, this method takes 15 minutes 12 seconds of someone else's time, and then 1 day/level of your time only.

And these costs are the same?
Karlindel
09-22-03, 02:34 PM Chonjurer, I was not suggesting that the first level spell scrolls should be unavailable in a large city. However, I would not expect every first level spell to be available on scrolls in even the larger cities. And in smaller towns or villages it is possible that the local wizards would have far more spells in their books than on scrolls.

I hadn't thought about using an open slot to prepare the spell using their book. You need to have a spell scribed in your own book in order to prepare it. So that is only useful if the wizard has already at some point scribed the spell into their spellbook. Otherwise, it takes a day to scribe it into your book using someone else's spellbook.

And I still stand by the idea that not every option needs to be cost effective. Options that aren't cost effective are used less often, but not necessarily useless.
Arbitrary Aardvark
10-21-03, 10:20 AM As I see it:

Cost charged by mage to let you learn a spell -- typically 50 gp/level

Cost to write a spell into your spellbook -- 100 gp/level
Cost to copy a spell from one spellbook to another -- 50 gp/level

(Note: in my world, at least, this must be from one of your spellbooks to another. The cost to make the first copy is higher because each wizard has different notations, different styles of writing etc. Think of it as the difference between copying your own homework vs. copying someone elses.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
angelroble 09-17-03, 04:06 PM	From SRD. Blessed Book: This well-made tome is always of small size, typically no more than 12 inches tall, 8 inches wide, and 1 inch thick. All such books are durable, waterproof, bound with iron overlaid with silver, and locked. A wizard can fill the 1,000 pages of a blessed book with spells without paying the 25 gp per page material cost. This book is never found as randomly generated treasure with spells already inscribed in it. 25 gp per page? Is this an error, sure?
Sacrusha 09-17-03, 05:19 PM	Is this an error Yes.sure? Yes. You're not the first one asking. The general answer always was, that the PHB value is correct.
Capn Charlie 09-17-03, 06:49 PM	Just for clarity's sake, the correct value would be?
chonjurer 09-17-03, 07:39 PM	PHB, pg. 179 - 100gp/page (but only 1 page/spell level now) On a side note, has anyone noticed the stupid prices for copying a spell out of someone else's spellbook? They say 50gp/spell level to learn a spell out of someone else's book. The cost for a 1st level scroll is 25 gp. Something's not adding up here.
Seeker95 09-17-03, 08:41 PM	chonjurer, the cost of the scroll is 25. The price to copy it to your spell book is 100gp. Total = 125. That same 1st level spell from someone else's spellbook = 50gp. Something is quite right.
chonjurer 09-17-03, 09:18 PM	No, that is the fee that they charge you to copy it. THEY charge you. It doesn't cover the scribing cost for your book as well.
Seeker95 09-17-03, 11:00 PM	Oh. Well now. That is something entirely different! Why would you pay anyone to do this in the first place?
chonjurer 09-18-03, 03:07 AM	They are charging you a fee for the priviledge of looking at their spellbook and getting a spell that you don't already have.
Seeker95 09-18-03, 07:51 AM	But if you pay for a scroll of the exact same spell (a service they are just as likely to provide) it is cheaper, and you walk away with the scroll to do with it as you wish.
The_Ditto 09-18-03, 11:01 AM	Originally posted by Seeker95 But if you pay for a scroll of the exact same spell (a service they are just as likely to provide) it is cheaper, and you walk away with the scroll to do with it as you wish. no xp hit on anyone .. Sure, it's small ... but the fact is, there IS an xp hit .. :D
chonjurer 09-18-03, 01:51 PM	Originally posted by Seeker95 But if you pay for a scroll of the exact same spell (a service they are just as likely to provide) it is cheaper, and you walk away with the scroll to do with it as you wish. :bored: That was kind of my point, that you decided to argue against before reading the rules completely, and now are agreeing with.
Seeker95 09-18-03, 02:31 PM	chonjurer, you use the word argue in your reply. I was not arguing with you. I voiced an interpretation that was incorrect, you corrected it, and I recanted. If you consistently paint everyone as being against you, eventually, we will end up complying with that picture.
Wizard 09-18-03, 05:30 PM	Originally posted by The_Ditto no xp hit on anyone .. Sure, it's small ... but the fact is, there IS an xp hit .. :D Well, apparently Seeker and chonjurer have kissed an made up, so that's over. But Ditto, by your reasoning, the scroll ought to be more expensive. It takes no xp to scribe a spell into or out of a spellbook. And it is 100gp, according to me, custserv, and the age-old rule of "follow the original rule listing."
ArcaneGnome 09-18-03, 06:28 PM	While you might end up paying less for that 1st level scroll, if you want any spell of higher level you pay more getting the scroll because you have to take into account the caster level. When just copying a 2nd level spell it's 100 gp (250) as opposed to 150gp for the scroll (23*25). So for simplicity's sake, the wiz just uses 50 gp/lvl to copy a spell. It just makes it easier.
Karlindel 09-18-03, 07:14 PM	Also consider that a wizard may not have scrolls of all of the spells in his/her spellbook. Some wizards might even choose not to make scrolls of some of their more unique spells, to try to keep knowledge of them away from their competitors. Also, not every option needs to be cost effective. Although copying a lvl 1 spell from someone else's spellbook may seem a bad idea(getting a scroll is cheaper), the option is there because copying from a spellbook at higher levels saves a lot of money(doesn't include caster level in the formula, so a lvl 3 spell is 150 gp from someone's book, 375 gp for the scroll). And the formula given takes up less space than a table of spell levels and costs. :D Personally, I up the price if the spell is high level or the wizard is higher level, but allow diplomacy rolls to haggle the price down a bit as well.
chonjurer 09-18-03, 07:30 PM	Originally posted by Seeker95 I was not arguing with you. I voiced an interpretation that was incorrect, you corrected it, and I recanted. I'm sorry if I see it differently. But it's over so I'm not going to drag it on. Karlindel: The listed price is for standard, common spells which should, according to the by-wealth guidelines for cities, be available on scrolls. Why suddenly the 1st level scroll selection in towns disappears as soon as 3.5 gets printed because of greedy wizards baffles me. While I realise that it is cheaper for higher level spells, (because the base cost is spell level225 instead of spell levelcaster level25), at least you can decide to not use the higher-level scroll for copying if you want. Note that you can use a prepared spell slot to copy into a book, so really the guy is charging you for 15 minutes use of his book, unless the spell is of a higher level than you can normally cast in which case it takes 1 day/spell level - quite a different expenditure of time. Now if you take the 1 day/level I could easily see charging 50 gp/spell level (in fact, I would charge more for higher level spells as you can make substantially more doing other pursuits for a day than babysitting someone with your spellbook). So there's the dumb way to do this: use spellcraft instead of a 0-level spell that all wizards can cast regardless of level and never lose access to so it takes you 8 hours to decipher the spell instead of a couple of seconds (note: the DCs on pg. 178 and pg. 82 contradict each other), and then take 1 day/level to copy it out. All in all, it takes at least 1 day/level + 1 day of someone else's time. Then there's the smart way: use Read Magic to instantly understand the spell, take 15 minutes to memorise it and be on your way to copy it into your spell book. All in all, this method takes 15 minutes 12 seconds of someone else's time, and then 1 day/level of your time only. And these costs are the same?
Karlindel 09-22-03, 02:34 PM	Chonjurer, I was not suggesting that the first level spell scrolls should be unavailable in a large city. However, I would not expect every first level spell to be available on scrolls in even the larger cities. And in smaller towns or villages it is possible that the local wizards would have far more spells in their books than on scrolls. I hadn't thought about using an open slot to prepare the spell using their book. You need to have a spell scribed in your own book in order to prepare it. So that is only useful if the wizard has already at some point scribed the spell into their spellbook. Otherwise, it takes a day to scribe it into your book using someone else's spellbook. And I still stand by the idea that not every option needs to be cost effective. Options that aren't cost effective are used less often, but not necessarily useless.
Arbitrary Aardvark 10-21-03, 10:20 AM	As I see it: Cost charged by mage to let you learn a spell -- typically 50 gp/level Cost to write a spell into your spellbook -- 100 gp/level Cost to copy a spell from one spellbook to another -- 50 gp/level (Note: in my world, at least, this must be from one of your spellbooks to another. The cost to make the first copy is higher because each wizard has different notations, different styles of writing etc. Think of it as the difference between copying your own homework vs. copying someone elses.)