Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thorsbjorn 08-18-07, 05:48 PM	The blink spell description says that if someone can see invisible objects his miss chance falls from the standard 50% to only 20%. So I'm wondering whether, if you hit the blinking creature with a glitterdust spell, the miss chance for everyone targeting the blinking creature falls to 20%. Thanks. :)
Gryllmyre 08-18-07, 09:18 PM	Incorrect: The blink ability phases the target in and out of the Material Plane, which accounts for the remaining 20% miss chance, I guess. And I presume that being able to see invisible objects just helps the attacker get more of a bearing on what to swing at. So, I would say that with glitterdust, you would have a 20% miss chance as well, instead of the full 50%. The remaining 20% is from being ethereal. Correct: See below :)
Horseshoe_Hermit 08-18-07, 10:37 PM	Blink doesn't make sense. If you trust the part that says the Blinker moves between the material and ethereal planes on a random basis that makes it equally likely he will be on either plane at a given instant, then it does not follow that the miss percentages work the way they do. Obvious first step: If the attacker cannot strike an ethereal creature, the miss chance is at least 50% because 50% of the time the Blinker isn't there. If the attacker can see invisible creatures, then the answer is obviously 50% miss chance (The rules erroneously state the miss chance is 20%). Obvious second step: If the attacker can see and strike ethereal creatures, Blink does nothing. The spell description says something else that is consistent with other parts of the rules; that, since the Blinker is completely invisible 50% of the time, and the blinking is fast enough, it is as though he is 50% concealed. The effect is rather like Blur, actually; and in both cases, the attack misses 20% due to one-half concealment. These two miss chances are independent, and not even covered by "concealment stacking (rather, lack thereof)" rules, because the first miss chance is not concealment. So, 60% of the time actually (0.5 + 0.2*0.5 = 0.6), the attacker should miss if he has no extraordinary abilities. If the attacker can strike ethereal creatures but can't see them, then the blinker should get one-half concealment. 20% miss chance. *~*~*~ Back to the question: Glitterdust obviously does nothing to affect a blinker. While he is material, he is visible anyway, so it does nothing then; and while he is ethereal, the dust is ethereal also, so its glittering cannot be seen, so it doesn't help. In the case it is ruled that the dust remains material and falls off the blinker, there's still no effect, and this is the only other possibility.
Gryllmyre 08-18-07, 11:24 PM	Good point. I didn't realize that being able to see an invisible creature decreasing the miss chance just meant the target is visible to the attacker while ethereal.
AshenChild 08-19-07, 12:33 AM	Remember, though, that a weapon takes a while to pass through a target. There is still a fair chance that the blinker will phase back in as the weapon is passing through them (and thus recieve the normal damage).
ArcTan 08-19-07, 02:24 AM	Blink doesn't make sense. If you trust the part that says the Blinker moves between the material and ethereal planes on a random basis that makes it equally likely he will be on either plane at a given instant, then it does not follow that the miss percentages work the way they do. Obvious first step: If the attacker cannot strike an ethereal creature, the miss chance is at least 50% because 50% of the time the Blinker isn't there. That assumes I'm swinging randomly, and not specifically trying to hit the blinker when he's in the Material. If the attacker can see invisible creatures, then the answer is obviously 50% miss chance (The rules erroneously state the miss chance is 20%). Why would it be a 50% miss chance? First, I can actually *try* to target the creature at a moment when he's not blinking out, and secondly, even if I fail, if his blinking is that rapid there's a good chance he'll blink back in while I'm still hitting him -- as AshenChild points out, attacks aren't truly instantaneous. Obvious second step: If the attacker can see and strike ethereal creatures, Blink does nothing. The spell description says something else that is consistent with other parts of the rules; that, since the Blinker is completely invisible 50% of the time, and the blinking is fast enough, it is as though he is 50% concealed. The effect is rather like Blur, actually; and in both cases, the attack misses 20% due to one-half concealment. These two miss chances are independent, and not even covered by "concealment stacking (rather, lack thereof)" rules, because the first miss chance is not concealment. So, 60% of the time actually (0.5 + 0.2*0.5 = 0.6), the attacker should miss if he has no extraordinary abilities.[/quote] Clearly the math was not supposed to be exact, or "half" concealment would be 25% concealment, not 20% concealment. Look, the reasoning is really very simple -- there are only two kinds of concealment or miss chance by default, 50% and 20%. 50% is the big one, 20% is the small one. Blink gives 20% for just one factor and 50% for both.
CaoSlayer 08-19-07, 04:51 AM	The blink isnt fast or slow, is random (look how you can walk several feets while being ethereal without phasing out), the reason of being that hard to hit someone blinking is because while he was ethereal he didnt stayed in place but moved so each time he reappears can catch his opponent totally off guard. If you can see your enemy then you are in equal ground against him since you can target him all the time ready to attack when he turns "normal" in place of attacking fast when he becomes visible.