blink + sneak attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

blink + sneak attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
fables
02-19-04, 10:19 PM If a rogue (or anyone with sneak attack) had a ring of blinking, or was a spell caster, he cannot use sneak attack when blinking. The rogue also suffers a miss chance (concealment), sometimes he's there sometimes he's not. He cannot see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot. Anyone disagree?
Drow pandemonium
02-19-04, 10:28 PM Any concealment miss chance ruins SA though right?

If not, when you blink your going between etherial and material, so you can still see your opponent all the time so you could pick a vital spot.

I think my first sentence clears it though.
Cairn
02-19-04, 10:44 PM So is the question:
Can you sneak attack while blinking? Or does the 20% miss chance (that the blinking attacker has) ruin SA because targets have concealment?
UZI
02-19-04, 11:23 PM I don't believe the 20% miss chance of blink is concealment. In "actuality" you just aren't there. The blinking rogue, however, can see the target while in the ethereal (albeit in a shadowy way). Whether this makes it possible to sneak attack is another matter.
da chicken
02-19-04, 11:39 PM Indeed. The miss chance from incorporeality or blink are not forms of concealment. A displaced, blinking, ghostformed creature would require 3 50% miss chances to hit. 50% chance for concealment from displacement. 50% miss chance for blink's potential to be on the Ethereal Plane. 50% miss chance due to being incorporeal. This is, in effect, an 87.5% miss chance.

Although, come to think of it, I'm not sure how blink works with ghostform. I'm not sure a manifesting ghost can be meanigfully affected by blink. How about a displaced, blinking wraith?
Cairn
02-20-04, 11:15 AM To quote Blink:
Physical attacks against you have a 50% miss chance, and the Blind-Fight feat doesn't help opponents, since your're etherial and not merely invisible. If the attack is capable of striking ethereal creatures, the miss chance is only 20%(for concealment)..."
So at least part of this miss chance is due to concealment.
da chicken
02-20-04, 02:08 PM That's because blink makes you invisible half the time. But when you're invisible, you actually not there at all -- you're ethereal. If you can strike ethereal, then the creature is just essentially half invisible.

Of course, I don't know of anything that can attack ethereal creatures that requires a to-hit roll. Incantatrix can, but they can see ethereal so they wouldn't suffer the miss chance anyways.
Salla
02-20-04, 02:12 PM The 20 percent chance for the blinker to miss his target isn't concealment; if you roll that, it means you accidentally timed your attack with a blink and weren't corporeal to land it.

Sneak Attacking while Blinking works fine.
fables
02-20-04, 02:20 PM The miss chance from blink is concealment, it says so in the spell.
When you blink in and out of the material plane into the etherial, you can see you opponent, therefore i guess you could pick a vital spot. A rogue could see the target, but the blink spell causes concealment (although in a wierd way). So how should it be ruled?
Tonus
02-20-04, 02:34 PM "The Ethereal Plane is coexistent with the Material Plane and often other planes as well. The Material Plane itself is visible from the Ethereal Plane, but it appears muted and indistinct, its colors blurring into each other and its edges turning fuzzy.
While it is possible to see into the Material Plane from the Ethereal Plane, the Ethereal Plane is usually invisible to those on the Material Plane. Normally, creatures on the Ethereal Plane cannot attack creatures on the Material Plane, and vice versa. A traveler on the Ethereal Plane is invisible, incorporeal, and utterly silent to someone on the Material Plane. "

If you are under the effects of a Blink spell, you have a chance to miss your target due to blinking out at an inopportune time. This is *not* giving your opponent concealment, so you do not lose your ability to sneak attack. You can still perceive the Material plane when Ethereal, but not vice versa.

The fact that you are blinking into the etherial plane effectively gives *you* concealment vs your opponent, since you become effectively invisible during the time you are Ethereal. This is a benefit, not a penalty.
Unda Harvum
02-20-04, 06:43 PM Originally posted by Tonus
This is a benefit, not a penalty. Unless you are in desperate need of healing (disabled, for instance), and the foolish cleric keep missing you with his healing touch ;)
Levism84
02-20-04, 07:21 PM so... theoretically you can sneak attack a target in the material plain while blinking with a 20% miss chance due to maybe being ethereal because even on the ethereal plane you can see material targets, but you cannot sneak attack anything on the ethereal plane because you cant see it when you switch back to the material one?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fables 02-19-04, 10:19 PM	If a rogue (or anyone with sneak attack) had a ring of blinking, or was a spell caster, he cannot use sneak attack when blinking. The rogue also suffers a miss chance (concealment), sometimes he's there sometimes he's not. He cannot see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot. Anyone disagree?
Drow pandemonium 02-19-04, 10:28 PM	Any concealment miss chance ruins SA though right? If not, when you blink your going between etherial and material, so you can still see your opponent all the time so you could pick a vital spot. I think my first sentence clears it though.
Cairn 02-19-04, 10:44 PM	So is the question: Can you sneak attack while blinking? Or does the 20% miss chance (that the blinking attacker has) ruin SA because targets have concealment?
UZI 02-19-04, 11:23 PM	I don't believe the 20% miss chance of blink is concealment. In "actuality" you just aren't there. The blinking rogue, however, can see the target while in the ethereal (albeit in a shadowy way). Whether this makes it possible to sneak attack is another matter.
da chicken 02-19-04, 11:39 PM	Indeed. The miss chance from incorporeality or blink are not forms of concealment. A displaced, blinking, ghostformed creature would require 3 50% miss chances to hit. 50% chance for concealment from displacement. 50% miss chance for blink's potential to be on the Ethereal Plane. 50% miss chance due to being incorporeal. This is, in effect, an 87.5% miss chance. Although, come to think of it, I'm not sure how blink works with ghostform. I'm not sure a manifesting ghost can be meanigfully affected by blink. How about a displaced, blinking wraith?
Cairn 02-20-04, 11:15 AM	To quote Blink: Physical attacks against you have a 50% miss chance, and the Blind-Fight feat doesn't help opponents, since your're etherial and not merely invisible. If the attack is capable of striking ethereal creatures, the miss chance is only 20%(for concealment)..." So at least part of this miss chance is due to concealment.
da chicken 02-20-04, 02:08 PM	That's because blink makes you invisible half the time. But when you're invisible, you actually not there at all -- you're ethereal. If you can strike ethereal, then the creature is just essentially half invisible. Of course, I don't know of anything that can attack ethereal creatures that requires a to-hit roll. Incantatrix can, but they can see ethereal so they wouldn't suffer the miss chance anyways.
Salla 02-20-04, 02:12 PM	The 20 percent chance for the blinker to miss his target isn't concealment; if you roll that, it means you accidentally timed your attack with a blink and weren't corporeal to land it. Sneak Attacking while Blinking works fine.
fables 02-20-04, 02:20 PM	The miss chance from blink is concealment, it says so in the spell. When you blink in and out of the material plane into the etherial, you can see you opponent, therefore i guess you could pick a vital spot. A rogue could see the target, but the blink spell causes concealment (although in a wierd way). So how should it be ruled?
Tonus 02-20-04, 02:34 PM	"The Ethereal Plane is coexistent with the Material Plane and often other planes as well. The Material Plane itself is visible from the Ethereal Plane, but it appears muted and indistinct, its colors blurring into each other and its edges turning fuzzy. While it is possible to see into the Material Plane from the Ethereal Plane, the Ethereal Plane is usually invisible to those on the Material Plane. Normally, creatures on the Ethereal Plane cannot attack creatures on the Material Plane, and vice versa. A traveler on the Ethereal Plane is invisible, incorporeal, and utterly silent to someone on the Material Plane. " If you are under the effects of a Blink spell, you have a chance to miss your target due to blinking out at an inopportune time. This is not giving your opponent concealment, so you do not lose your ability to sneak attack. You can still perceive the Material plane when Ethereal, but not vice versa. The fact that you are blinking into the etherial plane effectively gives you concealment vs your opponent, since you become effectively invisible during the time you are Ethereal. This is a benefit, not a penalty.
Unda Harvum 02-20-04, 06:43 PM	Originally posted by Tonus This is a benefit, not a penalty. Unless you are in desperate need of healing (disabled, for instance), and the foolish cleric keep missing you with his healing touch ;)
Levism84 02-20-04, 07:21 PM	so... theoretically you can sneak attack a target in the material plain while blinking with a 20% miss chance due to maybe being ethereal because even on the ethereal plane you can see material targets, but you cannot sneak attack anything on the ethereal plane because you cant see it when you switch back to the material one?