Blood Wind and Touch Spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blood Wind and Touch Spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ronyon
12-04-06, 06:43 PM Blood Wind is a Spell Compendium spell that lets you make a natral or unarmed attack at range as a Full round action.
It takes a Swift(?) action to cast so it can be cast and the attack made on the same turn.
So, What if you cast a Touch spell, hold the charge, and go Blood Wind on your next turn?
Ranged delivery of Touch spells?

If this works, great. It should also allow a Trip at range.
Gnarl
12-05-06, 12:03 PM I don't think Touch attacks are natural attacks or unarmed attacks so I guess it doesn't work.

I don't think you can use Improved Trip because your unarmed attacks are treated as thrown weapons with a 20' range increment and you can only trip with an unarmed melee attack.

If you use an unarmed attack to deliver your touch spell.... Euh I don't know about that one :D.
Burdell
12-05-06, 05:04 PM Blood Wind is a Spell Compendium spell that lets you make a natral or unarmed attack at range as a Full round action.
It takes a Swift(?) action to cast so it can be cast and the attack made on the same turn.
So, What if you cast a Touch spell, hold the charge, and go Blood Wind on your next turn?
Ranged delivery of Touch spells?

If this works, great. It should also allow a Trip at range.

Note that as soon as you cast another spell, any held Touch spell dissipates harmlessly (look at the rules on the latter). So it would go;

round 1. Cast Nasty Touch spell, hold charge.
round 2. Swift cast Blood Wind, dissipating Nasty Touch spell. Wish you still had it so you could use it at range. . . :)

No reason you couldn't use it to make Trip attacks at range, though it might take some thought on how to resolve counter-Trips. . .
ronyon
12-07-06, 04:49 PM Doh! Ah well, I had thought it was only dispelled when you cast another touch spell...
Hmm, still might work for non-spell touch attacks...
Other wise I only see it working with Extend Spell, but Im not sure that would be worth while.What do you think?
Gnarl
12-07-06, 06:25 PM Note that as soon as you cast another spell, any held Touch spell dissipates harmlessly (look at the rules on the latter). So it would go;

round 1. Cast Nasty Touch spell, hold charge.
round 2. Swift cast Blood Wind, dissipating Nasty Touch spell. Wish you still had it so you could use it at range. . . :)

No reason you couldn't use it to make Trip attacks at range, though it might take some thought on how to resolve counter-Trips. . .

I'm sorry to disappoint you but I believe this is inaccurate.

Blood Wind is not a spell with a range of Touch so it doesn't dissipate the previous spell.

Furthermore, Blood Wind specifically states that you treat your unarmed or natural attacks as a thrown weapon with a range increment of 20 feet and you can only make a trip attempt with a melee unarmed attack (the player handbook specifies the melee). For these reasons I am inclined to believe that you cannot trip with Blood Wind.

On the other hand I see no reason why it wouldn't work if you're delivering the touch spell with an unarmed attack. The Touch Spell in combat section of the player's handbook doesn't say anything on whether this has to be a melee unarmed strike or not.
Merestil Haye
12-07-06, 06:31 PM I'm sorry to disappoint you but I believe this is inaccurate.

Blood Wind is not a spell with a range of Touch so it doesn't dissipate the previous spell.I'm sorry to inform you that this statement is inaccurate. According to the SRD, in the discussion on touch spells, we have this.Holding the Charge

If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.This says nothing about dissipating the original spell when another touch spell is cast. It says that casting a spell - any spell - dissipates the charge of the original spell.
Gnarl
12-08-06, 03:56 AM I'm sorry to inform you that this statement is inaccurate.

Indeed you are right.
ronyon
12-08-06, 04:45 PM Nuts.
Does Blood Wind have any powerplay in it?
Could one disarm,sunder or somthin?
Anything that makes this spell worth doing?
Emeramber
12-08-06, 04:57 PM The character I'm currently playing is working towards Enlightened Fist and she's planning on using this with her 3rd level ability which allows her to burn a Stunning Fist to add a touch spell into a full attack as a free action. It will go: Cast Bloodwind (Swift), Burn a Stunning Fist, cast a touch spell/full attack (usable at range).
Burdell
12-08-06, 05:02 PM What you might be able to get away with is this order;

Start of round, swift cast Blood Wind; a swift action doesn't prohibit a full round action that round, as far as I know.

*Then* cast your touch range spell as a full round action instead of a standard action, to make use of the Blood Wind "ranged attack". Casting and attacking with a touch attack spell is normally considered "all one standard action", vs. say casting a magic missile and attacking with a dagger, so IMHO it would be a reasonable interpretation to say that the combined spell cast/"touch attack" would turn into a full round action doing it this way.

And I wouldn't say its unbalanced, as you are burning 2 spells (and using up your precious Swift Cast chance for the round, where you could do a Quickened spell instead) in order to land one touch spell with more safety.
Dheran
12-08-06, 05:39 PM Start of round, swift cast Blood Wind; a swift action doesn't prohibit a full round action that round, as far as I know.
OK so far.
*Then* cast your touch range spell as a full round action instead of a standard action, to make use of the Blood Wind "ranged attack".
Blood Wind only augments a full attack action. You're not allowed to cast a spell during a round in which you make a full attack, except for a single swift spell -- which you've already used up.

For your plan to work you'd need to Extend your Blood Wind spell to give it 2 round duration, then cast the touch attack spell the same round. That leaves the second round to deliver the touch attack spell in addition to your unarmed attack, at range.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ronyon 12-04-06, 06:43 PM	Blood Wind is a Spell Compendium spell that lets you make a natral or unarmed attack at range as a Full round action. It takes a Swift(?) action to cast so it can be cast and the attack made on the same turn. So, What if you cast a Touch spell, hold the charge, and go Blood Wind on your next turn? Ranged delivery of Touch spells? If this works, great. It should also allow a Trip at range.
Gnarl 12-05-06, 12:03 PM	I don't think Touch attacks are natural attacks or unarmed attacks so I guess it doesn't work. I don't think you can use Improved Trip because your unarmed attacks are treated as thrown weapons with a 20' range increment and you can only trip with an unarmed melee attack. If you use an unarmed attack to deliver your touch spell.... Euh I don't know about that one :D.
Burdell 12-05-06, 05:04 PM	Blood Wind is a Spell Compendium spell that lets you make a natral or unarmed attack at range as a Full round action. It takes a Swift(?) action to cast so it can be cast and the attack made on the same turn. So, What if you cast a Touch spell, hold the charge, and go Blood Wind on your next turn? Ranged delivery of Touch spells? If this works, great. It should also allow a Trip at range. Note that as soon as you cast another spell, any held Touch spell dissipates harmlessly (look at the rules on the latter). So it would go; round 1. Cast Nasty Touch spell, hold charge. round 2. Swift cast Blood Wind, dissipating Nasty Touch spell. Wish you still had it so you could use it at range. . . :) No reason you couldn't use it to make Trip attacks at range, though it might take some thought on how to resolve counter-Trips. . .
ronyon 12-07-06, 04:49 PM	Doh! Ah well, I had thought it was only dispelled when you cast another touch spell... Hmm, still might work for non-spell touch attacks... Other wise I only see it working with Extend Spell, but Im not sure that would be worth while.What do you think?
Gnarl 12-07-06, 06:25 PM	Note that as soon as you cast another spell, any held Touch spell dissipates harmlessly (look at the rules on the latter). So it would go; round 1. Cast Nasty Touch spell, hold charge. round 2. Swift cast Blood Wind, dissipating Nasty Touch spell. Wish you still had it so you could use it at range. . . :) No reason you couldn't use it to make Trip attacks at range, though it might take some thought on how to resolve counter-Trips. . . I'm sorry to disappoint you but I believe this is inaccurate. Blood Wind is not a spell with a range of Touch so it doesn't dissipate the previous spell. Furthermore, Blood Wind specifically states that you treat your unarmed or natural attacks as a thrown weapon with a range increment of 20 feet and you can only make a trip attempt with a melee unarmed attack (the player handbook specifies the melee). For these reasons I am inclined to believe that you cannot trip with Blood Wind. On the other hand I see no reason why it wouldn't work if you're delivering the touch spell with an unarmed attack. The Touch Spell in combat section of the player's handbook doesn't say anything on whether this has to be a melee unarmed strike or not.
Merestil Haye 12-07-06, 06:31 PM	I'm sorry to disappoint you but I believe this is inaccurate. Blood Wind is not a spell with a range of Touch so it doesn't dissipate the previous spell.I'm sorry to inform you that this statement is inaccurate. According to the SRD, in the discussion on touch spells, we have this.Holding the Charge If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.This says nothing about dissipating the original spell when another touch spell is cast. It says that casting a spell - any spell - dissipates the charge of the original spell.
Gnarl 12-08-06, 03:56 AM	I'm sorry to inform you that this statement is inaccurate. Indeed you are right.
ronyon 12-08-06, 04:45 PM	Nuts. Does Blood Wind have any powerplay in it? Could one disarm,sunder or somthin? Anything that makes this spell worth doing?
Emeramber 12-08-06, 04:57 PM	The character I'm currently playing is working towards Enlightened Fist and she's planning on using this with her 3rd level ability which allows her to burn a Stunning Fist to add a touch spell into a full attack as a free action. It will go: Cast Bloodwind (Swift), Burn a Stunning Fist, cast a touch spell/full attack (usable at range).
Burdell 12-08-06, 05:02 PM	What you might be able to get away with is this order; Start of round, swift cast Blood Wind; a swift action doesn't prohibit a full round action that round, as far as I know. Then cast your touch range spell as a full round action instead of a standard action, to make use of the Blood Wind "ranged attack". Casting and attacking with a touch attack spell is normally considered "all one standard action", vs. say casting a magic missile and attacking with a dagger, so IMHO it would be a reasonable interpretation to say that the combined spell cast/"touch attack" would turn into a full round action doing it this way. And I wouldn't say its unbalanced, as you are burning 2 spells (and using up your precious Swift Cast chance for the round, where you could do a Quickened spell instead) in order to land one touch spell with more safety.
Dheran 12-08-06, 05:39 PM	Start of round, swift cast Blood Wind; a swift action doesn't prohibit a full round action that round, as far as I know. OK so far. Then cast your touch range spell as a full round action instead of a standard action, to make use of the Blood Wind "ranged attack". Blood Wind only augments a full attack action. You're not allowed to cast a spell during a round in which you make a full attack, except for a single swift spell -- which you've already used up. For your plan to work you'd need to Extend your Blood Wind spell to give it 2 round duration, then cast the touch attack spell the same round. That leaves the second round to deliver the touch attack spell in addition to your unarmed attack, at range.