blur and displacement [Archive] - Wizards Community

blur and displacement [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Harkanshar
11-23-04, 07:08 AM heya guys,

When I look at the blur and displacement spell I get the idea something is wrong. In my eyes displacement is a lot better than blur (50% vs 20%).
When I look at other protective spells (like shield, mage armor, stoneskin, invisibility (greater)) I get the idea these spells aren't in the correct slots.

I was thinking of blur (not sure) as a lvl 1 spell and displacement as a lvl 4 spell. But than displacement messes with greater invisibility and displacement only lasts 1 round/lvl. On the other hand, blur doesn't mess with invisibility anymore.

What are your opinions about these two spells???

bye
Dracspero
11-23-04, 07:33 AM Well, Blur negates (for the most part) 20% of attacks. I'd agree with it being a 1st level spell. Let's say your opponent needs a 9 or better to hit your AC 20. That's a 12/20 or 60% chance. If 20% of those attacks automatically miss, then thet means a 45% (or 9/20) chance of being hit. In other words, it's the equivalent of increasing your AC by +3. In fact, you only get the equivalent of +4 AC if your opponent auto hits you (and even then the 1 auto misses).

Displacement should definitely not be worth more than a 3rd level spell.
Harliquinn
11-23-04, 11:22 AM I don't understand the dilemma, everything seems to follow a progression upwards in effectiveness. Blur and Displacement stack with Mage Armor/Shield, as do Invisibility and Invisibility, Greater. The two lines are mutually exclusive of one another and Greater Invis is more powerful than Displacement (You don't know the 5' square with G. Invis)

Spell Level Effect Duration Restrictions
Mage Armor 1st +4 Armor bonus 1 hr/lvl Ignored for Touch Attacks
Shield 1st +4 Shield bonus 1 min/lvl Ignored for Touch Attacks
Blur 2nd 20% miss chance 1 min/lvl True Sight negates
Invisibility 2nd Invisible 1 min/lvl See Invisible/True Sight negates
50% miss chance Cannot attack
Displacement 3rd 50% miss chance 1 rd/lvl True Sight negates
Invisibility
(Greater) 4th Invisible
50% miss chance 1 rd/lvl See Invisible/True Sight negates
Dracspero
11-23-04, 11:59 AM Quick question: Shield and Mage Armor are force effects, aren't they? Doesn't that mean they can be used against touch attacks? My DM said this, and for once I didn't challenge it nor did I look it up.
Harliquinn
11-23-04, 12:45 PM They are effective against incorporeal Touch Attacks but not normal Touch Attacks (i.e. those made by mages for their attack spells).
Lukeal
11-23-04, 05:51 PM So they stop an incorporeal creature from touching you but not a corporeal one. Yeah that makes sense in a remotely not sort of way.
BW0222
11-23-04, 07:24 PM Blur is actually 2nd-level. A 20% miss chance is better than a +4 AC bonus from either shield or mage armor. Unlike the lower level spells, blur works against trips, grapple attempts, touch spells, etc. and at very high levels the 20% miss chance is much better than any AC bonus -- since your opponent is likely hitting normal ACs at will anyway.

Displacement is appropriate for third level. It is more powerful than 2nd-level invisibility (since it remains in effect while you attack) and it is less powerful than a 4th-level greater invisibility (since your presence is known and you don't have to guess at the target's square). Durations are the same as greater invisibility.
Nom
11-23-04, 09:13 PM So they stop an incorporeal creature from touching you but not a corporeal one. Yeah that makes sense in a remotely not sort of way.Incorporeal touch attacks are touch attacks because they go straight through your armour; they still have to interpenetrate your body to work, and mage armour makes that more difficult.

In contrast, regular touch attacks don't need to penetrate shields or armour, just making contact is enough. Thus, hitting the mage armour is as good as hitting real armour is as good as hitting a body. Tower shields are a special case.
fawr
12-02-04, 05:57 AM I think that you are missing something here. You can't sneak attack a target with concealment. This makes it so good its not funny against rogues. Besides "Entropic shield" is a 1st level spell which just provides concealment against ranged attacks, so blur is significantly better.

Displacement is worse than Improved Invisibility. II has quite a few non-combat uses, and is particually good for non-melee people.
[GSV] Kirstar
12-02-04, 08:44 AM even you blur and armour both reduce your chances to miss by 20%, blur is 2nd level becuase its always 20%.

example.

20th level fighterwith 30 str, +5 weapon, greater spec. for a total of +37

increasing your ac from 10 to 14 will have no effect, but getting 20% miss chance does have an effect, thus the increased level
Orion_II
12-02-04, 09:15 AM It's also interesting to note that Blur can be case while being grappled. With only a Verbal Component, it's harder to counter than Mage Armour, which requires Verbal, Somatic (which causes Arcane Spell Failure) and a Focus (which you can be disarmed of). Something to note.
primemover003
12-02-04, 04:18 PM But once you're grappled what good is blur? You're already in my hands, it's straight opposed rolls, there are no "to hit rolls" unless I choose to attack with a light weapon or natural attack.
Orion_II
12-02-04, 06:09 PM The advantage of Blur while being grappled is very simple: in addition to protection from natural weapons, it can also help protect you from damage from outside sources, such as archers or other foes. On more than one occasion, the bad guy has summoned up monsters to neutralize spelcasters via grappling. A blur spell can help protect you from your friends while they try to beat down the summoned foe.

The verbal only component is also vital for characters such as Spellswords (Fighter/Magi) at lower levels. And since removing a Somatic component (Still Spell) requires a +1 Spell level, its a nice bargain.
primemover003
12-02-04, 06:53 PM Blur is only good for negating the Sneak attack of a rogue (due to losing your Dex bonus to AC)...

Otherwise Blur is pretty useless. 20% miss chance isn't really a very effective defense... at least when My players roll.
[GSV] Kirstar
12-03-04, 03:55 AM thats the thing, blur makes you immune to 20% of all attacks.

thats usualful, if not as good as displacement.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harkanshar 11-23-04, 07:08 AM	heya guys, When I look at the blur and displacement spell I get the idea something is wrong. In my eyes displacement is a lot better than blur (50% vs 20%). When I look at other protective spells (like shield, mage armor, stoneskin, invisibility (greater)) I get the idea these spells aren't in the correct slots. I was thinking of blur (not sure) as a lvl 1 spell and displacement as a lvl 4 spell. But than displacement messes with greater invisibility and displacement only lasts 1 round/lvl. On the other hand, blur doesn't mess with invisibility anymore. What are your opinions about these two spells??? bye
Dracspero 11-23-04, 07:33 AM	Well, Blur negates (for the most part) 20% of attacks. I'd agree with it being a 1st level spell. Let's say your opponent needs a 9 or better to hit your AC 20. That's a 12/20 or 60% chance. If 20% of those attacks automatically miss, then thet means a 45% (or 9/20) chance of being hit. In other words, it's the equivalent of increasing your AC by +3. In fact, you only get the equivalent of +4 AC if your opponent auto hits you (and even then the 1 auto misses). Displacement should definitely not be worth more than a 3rd level spell.
Harliquinn 11-23-04, 11:22 AM	I don't understand the dilemma, everything seems to follow a progression upwards in effectiveness. Blur and Displacement stack with Mage Armor/Shield, as do Invisibility and Invisibility, Greater. The two lines are mutually exclusive of one another and Greater Invis is more powerful than Displacement (You don't know the 5' square with G. Invis) Spell Level Effect Duration Restrictions Mage Armor 1st +4 Armor bonus 1 hr/lvl Ignored for Touch Attacks Shield 1st +4 Shield bonus 1 min/lvl Ignored for Touch Attacks Blur 2nd 20% miss chance 1 min/lvl True Sight negates Invisibility 2nd Invisible 1 min/lvl See Invisible/True Sight negates 50% miss chance Cannot attack Displacement 3rd 50% miss chance 1 rd/lvl True Sight negates Invisibility (Greater) 4th Invisible 50% miss chance 1 rd/lvl See Invisible/True Sight negates
Dracspero 11-23-04, 11:59 AM	Quick question: Shield and Mage Armor are force effects, aren't they? Doesn't that mean they can be used against touch attacks? My DM said this, and for once I didn't challenge it nor did I look it up.
Harliquinn 11-23-04, 12:45 PM	They are effective against incorporeal Touch Attacks but not normal Touch Attacks (i.e. those made by mages for their attack spells).
Lukeal 11-23-04, 05:51 PM	So they stop an incorporeal creature from touching you but not a corporeal one. Yeah that makes sense in a remotely not sort of way.
BW0222 11-23-04, 07:24 PM	Blur is actually 2nd-level. A 20% miss chance is better than a +4 AC bonus from either shield or mage armor. Unlike the lower level spells, blur works against trips, grapple attempts, touch spells, etc. and at very high levels the 20% miss chance is much better than any AC bonus -- since your opponent is likely hitting normal ACs at will anyway. Displacement is appropriate for third level. It is more powerful than 2nd-level invisibility (since it remains in effect while you attack) and it is less powerful than a 4th-level greater invisibility (since your presence is known and you don't have to guess at the target's square). Durations are the same as greater invisibility.
Nom 11-23-04, 09:13 PM	So they stop an incorporeal creature from touching you but not a corporeal one. Yeah that makes sense in a remotely not sort of way.Incorporeal touch attacks are touch attacks because they go straight through your armour; they still have to interpenetrate your body to work, and mage armour makes that more difficult. In contrast, regular touch attacks don't need to penetrate shields or armour, just making contact is enough. Thus, hitting the mage armour is as good as hitting real armour is as good as hitting a body. Tower shields are a special case.
fawr 12-02-04, 05:57 AM	I think that you are missing something here. You can't sneak attack a target with concealment. This makes it so good its not funny against rogues. Besides "Entropic shield" is a 1st level spell which just provides concealment against ranged attacks, so blur is significantly better. Displacement is worse than Improved Invisibility. II has quite a few non-combat uses, and is particually good for non-melee people.
[GSV] Kirstar 12-02-04, 08:44 AM	even you blur and armour both reduce your chances to miss by 20%, blur is 2nd level becuase its always 20%. example. 20th level fighterwith 30 str, +5 weapon, greater spec. for a total of +37 increasing your ac from 10 to 14 will have no effect, but getting 20% miss chance does have an effect, thus the increased level
Orion_II 12-02-04, 09:15 AM	It's also interesting to note that Blur can be case while being grappled. With only a Verbal Component, it's harder to counter than Mage Armour, which requires Verbal, Somatic (which causes Arcane Spell Failure) and a Focus (which you can be disarmed of). Something to note.
primemover003 12-02-04, 04:18 PM	But once you're grappled what good is blur? You're already in my hands, it's straight opposed rolls, there are no "to hit rolls" unless I choose to attack with a light weapon or natural attack.
Orion_II 12-02-04, 06:09 PM	The advantage of Blur while being grappled is very simple: in addition to protection from natural weapons, it can also help protect you from damage from outside sources, such as archers or other foes. On more than one occasion, the bad guy has summoned up monsters to neutralize spelcasters via grappling. A blur spell can help protect you from your friends while they try to beat down the summoned foe. The verbal only component is also vital for characters such as Spellswords (Fighter/Magi) at lower levels. And since removing a Somatic component (Still Spell) requires a +1 Spell level, its a nice bargain.
primemover003 12-02-04, 06:53 PM	Blur is only good for negating the Sneak attack of a rogue (due to losing your Dex bonus to AC)... Otherwise Blur is pretty useless. 20% miss chance isn't really a very effective defense... at least when My players roll.
[GSV] Kirstar 12-03-04, 03:55 AM	thats the thing, blur makes you immune to 20% of all attacks. thats usualful, if not as good as displacement.