Boccobs blessed book [Archive] - Wizards Community

Boccobs blessed book [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Celedor of Celestia
10-30-03, 03:46 PM :angel:

In the 3.5 DM guide it says that when you scribe spells into Boccobs Blessed book, you don`t have to pay the 25 gp material cost. Isn`t the cost for writing spells into spellbooks 100 gp? I don`t get it!

:angel:
Luminous Crayon
10-30-03, 03:57 PM The 25 gp/page cost in the Blessed Book description is a typo. The 100 gp/day cost in the PHB is the correct cost. Tripped me up too, until Seeker pointed it out. Thanks, Seeker.
Chewiesdabomb
10-30-03, 04:26 PM i always took it as the book took less money to write stuff in, seeing as it was a wonderous item.
Luminous Crayon
10-30-03, 05:02 PM The book is free to write in. That, and the fact that it has ten times as many pages as a nonmagical spellbook, is the whole point of the item.
Eldren
10-30-03, 09:51 PM On a side note, I'm so glad that they clarified what this item could and couldn't do. My previous Dungeon Master and I had a significant argument over this item because of its wording in the 3.0 Dungeon Master's Guide. There, it indicated that the book "freely accepted spells scribed into it", but wasn't clear on whether "freely" meant "without financial cost" or "very easily". My Dungeon Master interpreted it in the latter way, I in the former, and we butted heads on this until I gave up and decided not to get the item. This was despite the fact that every single player, Dungeon Master and whatnot I talked with indicated that one of the benefits of the book was that it allowed one to bypass the costs associated with scribing spells. My DM thought its magic, in its entirety, was its ability to take a spell on a single page, no matter what level spell it was. :rolleyes:

3.5 did manage some rather nice magic clarifications in the midst of their massive magic-wide nerfing.
Hypersmurf
10-30-03, 10:10 PM My DM thought its magic, in its entirety, was its ability to take a spell on a single page, no matter what level spell it was. :rolleyes:

Amen.

That's how it'll always be run in my 3E games...

-Hyp.
Eldren
10-31-03, 12:39 AM You're obviously free to run your game however you like, Hyp, but the nature of the boards being what they are, I have to comment.

It's entirely unfair to Wizards to be singled out as they are for additional financial expenditures. There are those who claim that while Wizards have to pay for new spells, Fighters have to pay for magical arms and armor, they're ignoring the entire breadth of the picture.

For those spells which aren't found or acquired through leveling, not only does a Wizard have to pay to acquire the spell, they then have to pay to scribe the spell if they ever want it to be more than a one-use scroll. These expenditures are all for the ability to perform their basic class functions.

A Fighter can still fight without weapons; they might not be able to fight as well, but they still receive the full breadth of the abilities the Fighter class grants them.

The primary ability of the Wizard class is their spellcasting. They would be guaranteed dead if all they had to work with was the two free spells they received at each new level. This means that a 20th level Wizard has only 40 spells, likely spread out amongst the 9 levels of spells, which means they aren't likely to have more than two or three of a given level. This would quite unfairly put Sorcerors ahead of the curve of Wizards, and make them the preeminent spellcasters (arcane, at least) in the game. WotC obviously makes the assumption that a Wizard, in order to stay on par with the Sorceror, is going to have access to further spells.

They recognized that the costs associated with scribing spells were entirely too prohibitive, so they lowered them in 3.5. This was about the only good move they made regarding magic in 3.5, in my humble opinion.

If all Boccob's Blessed Book could do was hold more spells than a regular spellbook, it certainly didn't justify the 9,500 gp price tag it had in the 3.0 Dungeon Master's Guide. The problem with the 3.0 description for this item was the nebulous wording that likely caused arguments in more groups than just mine.

As it stands, the wording for the item in 3.5 is much clearer, and leaves no room for interpretation. It's really sad that a debate had to rage in 3.0 over the definition of the word "freely". Kinda reminds me of a certain ex leader's quibbling over the word "is". :nonono:

More to the point, with its abilities fully and undeniably delineated in the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide, Boccob's Blessed Book now fully justifies its 3.0 price, but doesn't quite justify the 3.5 price of 12,500 gp.

Thus, I've just noted one thing yet further that I'm going to have to add to my ever-expanding list of house rules for my campaign. Boccob's Blessed Book functions as per the 3.5 description, but costs as per the 3.0 version. :rolleyes:

Really, did WotC think they were going to get a major glut of those who played 3.0 to fully convert to 3.5? Like many others, I'm winding up playing 3.25. Nice going, WotC. Your journey to the Dark Side will be complete when you attempt to foist 4th Edition off on us in another two and a half years. :censored:
Hypersmurf
10-31-03, 12:58 AM It's really sad that a debate had to rage in 3.0 over the definition of the word "freely". Kinda reminds me of a certain ex leader's quibbling over the word "is". :nonono:

Huh. I've seen four page debates in 3E over a comma in 3E Bless Weapon, or the omission/inclusion of the word "it" in 3.5 Harm.

"Freely" is two syllables! It's much less silly to argue over two syllables than "it" :)

-Hyp.
Celedor of Celestia
11-02-03, 12:29 PM Is Boccobs blessed book free to write in?
Isn`t this too good for 12500 gp? If you have 10 spellbooks (1000 pages) you have to pay 100000 gp to scribe all books full of spells (100 gp pr. page) instead of paying 12500 to buy Boccobs Blessed Book and get the spells scribed for free (and less books)! Is this right?
Luminous Crayon
11-02-03, 12:41 PM Yes. The book is free to write in.
It also has ten times the storage capacity of a traditional spellbook.
It also comes with a lock, and is waterproof.

Search for the "Quite a library" thread. It'll give you a better rundown of prices involved.
Celedor of Celestia
11-02-03, 01:16 PM Isn`t this a overpowered item? Free to write in? You will save 87555 gp pr. book scribed full! My DM think this item is too good, and refuses to take have it in his campaign. Can anyone come with some arguments to keep it? Please?! I really like this item, and think it`s too bad to lose it! By the way, do you have to pay for normal ink to scibe spells in this book?
Luminous Crayon
11-02-03, 04:35 PM If you were really going to be abusive with magic items, there are much more effecient ways to do so. Keep in mind that you will probably never gain enough spells to fill the whole book up, so you're not really saving as much money with a Blessed Book as it looks like you are. If your DM is absolutely decided on the issue, there's not much else you can do, but I still think it's a rather silly item to be so frightened of. There are much more game-shattering ways to spend your money.
Gingerbread Guy
11-02-03, 06:52 PM Hiho,

Yes, it saves you money. Thats what magic is supposed to do, make things easier on you. And.. if a Wizard has access to 1,000 pages of spells, 87k gp isn't actually that big a deal. lol

~Ginger
green_yawgmoth
11-02-03, 11:07 PM It's really sad that a debate had to rage in 3.0 over the definition of the word "freely". Kinda reminds me of a certain ex leader's quibbling over the word "is". what's really funny is that he said " can you tell me what the definition of the word is is. he asked them to define a word that used in the same sentence! gahahahahahaha! [/derail]
primemover003
11-03-03, 05:37 AM Originally posted by Luminous Crayon
If you were really going to be abusive with magic items, there are much more effecient ways to do so. Keep in mind that you will probably never gain enough spells to fill the whole book up, so you're not really saving as much money with a Blessed Book as it looks like you are.

I don't know Luminous? One of my PC's has only 12 pages left in his 3.0 Azuth's Annointed Arcanum (yep, playing in FR). He's a Wiz 9/Harper mage 5 who's a member of Silverymoon's college of magic. This allows him to gain many more spells then a simple adventuring wizard. I've allowed it because he figured out a way to find more spells within the campaign environment. He pays a yearly tuition and also serves in the city's Spellguard for 9 days a game month. Oh and he created his Arcanum at about 7th level.
Luminous Crayon
11-03-03, 12:37 PM Originally posted by primemover003
I don't know Luminous? One of my PC's has only 12 pages left in his 3.0 Azuth's Annointed Arcanum (yep, playing in FR). He's a Wiz 9/Harper mage 5 who's a member of Silverymoon's college of magic. This allows him to gain many more spells then a simple adventuring wizard. I've allowed it because he figured out a way to find more spells within the campaign environment. He pays a yearly tuition and also serves in the city's Spellguard for 9 days a game month. Oh and he created his Arcanum at about 7th level.

I'm not familiar with FR. What is an Anointed Arcanum? How many pages are in it, and how does it work?
RabidWeasel
11-03-03, 08:29 PM Originally posted by green_yawgmoth
what's really funny is that he said " can you tell me what the definition of the word is is. he asked them to define a word that used in the same sentence! gahahahahahaha! [/derail]

This reminds me of the time in primary school that my English teacher said "with is a bad word to end a sentence with." [/derail] (for good this time we hope)
Eldren
11-03-03, 08:35 PM Luminous Crayon:

"Azuth's Anointed Arcanum" is a Forgotten Realms version of Boccob's Blessed Book. Since Boccob isn't worshipped in the Realms, there's no reason to have an item named after him in the Realms, other than something that came over from Oerth (the folks in the Realms are rather savvy when it comes to planewalking...). It has the same number of pages, and exact same effect. There's no entry for it in any of the magic item lists in published Forgotten Realms products, it's just someone attempting (quite nicely, I might add) to make the item specific to the Realms. There's probably also variants of the Mordenkainen spells that are instead named after a Realms Wizard or Sorceror. They do the same thing, they're just called differently.
Hypersmurf
11-03-03, 08:41 PM This reminds me of the time in primary school that my English teacher said "with is a bad word to end a sentence with."

"That is the sort of English up with which I will not put."
- Winston Churchill.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Celedor of Celestia 10-30-03, 03:46 PM	:angel: In the 3.5 DM guide it says that when you scribe spells into Boccobs Blessed book, you don`t have to pay the 25 gp material cost. Isn`t the cost for writing spells into spellbooks 100 gp? I don`t get it! :angel:
Luminous Crayon 10-30-03, 03:57 PM	The 25 gp/page cost in the Blessed Book description is a typo. The 100 gp/day cost in the PHB is the correct cost. Tripped me up too, until Seeker pointed it out. Thanks, Seeker.
Chewiesdabomb 10-30-03, 04:26 PM	i always took it as the book took less money to write stuff in, seeing as it was a wonderous item.
Luminous Crayon 10-30-03, 05:02 PM	The book is free to write in. That, and the fact that it has ten times as many pages as a nonmagical spellbook, is the whole point of the item.
Eldren 10-30-03, 09:51 PM	On a side note, I'm so glad that they clarified what this item could and couldn't do. My previous Dungeon Master and I had a significant argument over this item because of its wording in the 3.0 Dungeon Master's Guide. There, it indicated that the book "freely accepted spells scribed into it", but wasn't clear on whether "freely" meant "without financial cost" or "very easily". My Dungeon Master interpreted it in the latter way, I in the former, and we butted heads on this until I gave up and decided not to get the item. This was despite the fact that every single player, Dungeon Master and whatnot I talked with indicated that one of the benefits of the book was that it allowed one to bypass the costs associated with scribing spells. My DM thought its magic, in its entirety, was its ability to take a spell on a single page, no matter what level spell it was. :rolleyes: 3.5 did manage some rather nice magic clarifications in the midst of their massive magic-wide nerfing.
Hypersmurf 10-30-03, 10:10 PM	My DM thought its magic, in its entirety, was its ability to take a spell on a single page, no matter what level spell it was. :rolleyes: Amen. That's how it'll always be run in my 3E games... -Hyp.
Eldren 10-31-03, 12:39 AM	You're obviously free to run your game however you like, Hyp, but the nature of the boards being what they are, I have to comment. It's entirely unfair to Wizards to be singled out as they are for additional financial expenditures. There are those who claim that while Wizards have to pay for new spells, Fighters have to pay for magical arms and armor, they're ignoring the entire breadth of the picture. For those spells which aren't found or acquired through leveling, not only does a Wizard have to pay to acquire the spell, they then have to pay to scribe the spell if they ever want it to be more than a one-use scroll. These expenditures are all for the ability to perform their basic class functions. A Fighter can still fight without weapons; they might not be able to fight as well, but they still receive the full breadth of the abilities the Fighter class grants them. The primary ability of the Wizard class is their spellcasting. They would be guaranteed dead if all they had to work with was the two free spells they received at each new level. This means that a 20th level Wizard has only 40 spells, likely spread out amongst the 9 levels of spells, which means they aren't likely to have more than two or three of a given level. This would quite unfairly put Sorcerors ahead of the curve of Wizards, and make them the preeminent spellcasters (arcane, at least) in the game. WotC obviously makes the assumption that a Wizard, in order to stay on par with the Sorceror, is going to have access to further spells. They recognized that the costs associated with scribing spells were entirely too prohibitive, so they lowered them in 3.5. This was about the only good move they made regarding magic in 3.5, in my humble opinion. If all Boccob's Blessed Book could do was hold more spells than a regular spellbook, it certainly didn't justify the 9,500 gp price tag it had in the 3.0 Dungeon Master's Guide. The problem with the 3.0 description for this item was the nebulous wording that likely caused arguments in more groups than just mine. As it stands, the wording for the item in 3.5 is much clearer, and leaves no room for interpretation. It's really sad that a debate had to rage in 3.0 over the definition of the word "freely". Kinda reminds me of a certain ex leader's quibbling over the word "is". :nonono: More to the point, with its abilities fully and undeniably delineated in the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide, Boccob's Blessed Book now fully justifies its 3.0 price, but doesn't quite justify the 3.5 price of 12,500 gp. Thus, I've just noted one thing yet further that I'm going to have to add to my ever-expanding list of house rules for my campaign. Boccob's Blessed Book functions as per the 3.5 description, but costs as per the 3.0 version. :rolleyes: Really, did WotC think they were going to get a major glut of those who played 3.0 to fully convert to 3.5? Like many others, I'm winding up playing 3.25. Nice going, WotC. Your journey to the Dark Side will be complete when you attempt to foist 4th Edition off on us in another two and a half years. :censored:
Hypersmurf 10-31-03, 12:58 AM	It's really sad that a debate had to rage in 3.0 over the definition of the word "freely". Kinda reminds me of a certain ex leader's quibbling over the word "is". :nonono: Huh. I've seen four page debates in 3E over a comma in 3E Bless Weapon, or the omission/inclusion of the word "it" in 3.5 Harm. "Freely" is two syllables! It's much less silly to argue over two syllables than "it" :) -Hyp.
Celedor of Celestia 11-02-03, 12:29 PM	Is Boccobs blessed book free to write in? Isn`t this too good for 12500 gp? If you have 10 spellbooks (1000 pages) you have to pay 100000 gp to scribe all books full of spells (100 gp pr. page) instead of paying 12500 to buy Boccobs Blessed Book and get the spells scribed for free (and less books)! Is this right?
Luminous Crayon 11-02-03, 12:41 PM	Yes. The book is free to write in. It also has ten times the storage capacity of a traditional spellbook. It also comes with a lock, and is waterproof. Search for the "Quite a library" thread. It'll give you a better rundown of prices involved.
Celedor of Celestia 11-02-03, 01:16 PM	Isn`t this a overpowered item? Free to write in? You will save 87555 gp pr. book scribed full! My DM think this item is too good, and refuses to take have it in his campaign. Can anyone come with some arguments to keep it? Please?! I really like this item, and think it`s too bad to lose it! By the way, do you have to pay for normal ink to scibe spells in this book?
Luminous Crayon 11-02-03, 04:35 PM	If you were really going to be abusive with magic items, there are much more effecient ways to do so. Keep in mind that you will probably never gain enough spells to fill the whole book up, so you're not really saving as much money with a Blessed Book as it looks like you are. If your DM is absolutely decided on the issue, there's not much else you can do, but I still think it's a rather silly item to be so frightened of. There are much more game-shattering ways to spend your money.
Gingerbread Guy 11-02-03, 06:52 PM	Hiho, Yes, it saves you money. Thats what magic is supposed to do, make things easier on you. And.. if a Wizard has access to 1,000 pages of spells, 87k gp isn't actually that big a deal. lol ~Ginger
green_yawgmoth 11-02-03, 11:07 PM	It's really sad that a debate had to rage in 3.0 over the definition of the word "freely". Kinda reminds me of a certain ex leader's quibbling over the word "is". what's really funny is that he said " can you tell me what the definition of the word is is. he asked them to define a word that used in the same sentence! gahahahahahaha! [/derail]
primemover003 11-03-03, 05:37 AM	Originally posted by Luminous Crayon If you were really going to be abusive with magic items, there are much more effecient ways to do so. Keep in mind that you will probably never gain enough spells to fill the whole book up, so you're not really saving as much money with a Blessed Book as it looks like you are. I don't know Luminous? One of my PC's has only 12 pages left in his 3.0 Azuth's Annointed Arcanum (yep, playing in FR). He's a Wiz 9/Harper mage 5 who's a member of Silverymoon's college of magic. This allows him to gain many more spells then a simple adventuring wizard. I've allowed it because he figured out a way to find more spells within the campaign environment. He pays a yearly tuition and also serves in the city's Spellguard for 9 days a game month. Oh and he created his Arcanum at about 7th level.
Luminous Crayon 11-03-03, 12:37 PM	Originally posted by primemover003 I don't know Luminous? One of my PC's has only 12 pages left in his 3.0 Azuth's Annointed Arcanum (yep, playing in FR). He's a Wiz 9/Harper mage 5 who's a member of Silverymoon's college of magic. This allows him to gain many more spells then a simple adventuring wizard. I've allowed it because he figured out a way to find more spells within the campaign environment. He pays a yearly tuition and also serves in the city's Spellguard for 9 days a game month. Oh and he created his Arcanum at about 7th level. I'm not familiar with FR. What is an Anointed Arcanum? How many pages are in it, and how does it work?
RabidWeasel 11-03-03, 08:29 PM	Originally posted by green_yawgmoth what's really funny is that he said " can you tell me what the definition of the word is is. he asked them to define a word that used in the same sentence! gahahahahahaha! [/derail] This reminds me of the time in primary school that my English teacher said "with is a bad word to end a sentence with." [/derail] (for good this time we hope)
Eldren 11-03-03, 08:35 PM	Luminous Crayon: "Azuth's Anointed Arcanum" is a Forgotten Realms version of Boccob's Blessed Book. Since Boccob isn't worshipped in the Realms, there's no reason to have an item named after him in the Realms, other than something that came over from Oerth (the folks in the Realms are rather savvy when it comes to planewalking...). It has the same number of pages, and exact same effect. There's no entry for it in any of the magic item lists in published Forgotten Realms products, it's just someone attempting (quite nicely, I might add) to make the item specific to the Realms. There's probably also variants of the Mordenkainen spells that are instead named after a Realms Wizard or Sorceror. They do the same thing, they're just called differently.
Hypersmurf 11-03-03, 08:41 PM	This reminds me of the time in primary school that my English teacher said "with is a bad word to end a sentence with." "That is the sort of English up with which I will not put." - Winston Churchill.