Bonus for Casting Sleep on a Sleeping Creature [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bonus for Casting Sleep on a Sleeping Creature [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CowMasterTrojan
03-20-07, 03:22 AM OK, heres the deal. My PC's want to sneak around a guard captain's home to find something they believe is there. They manage to break in without making alot of noise, but discover that the guard captain is sleeping a mere 10 ft away. The wizard decides that he his going to cast sleep on the sleeping guard captain to put him into a deep sleep so they can make as much noise as they want (which is fine since the captain is level 4).

My question is this, what kind of modifier do I give to the Guard Captaiin's Will save (he does have a good save). I was thinking a -2 would be fair, but Lullaby gives that just for making them sleepy. So what would be a fair modifier to give?
FrostHammer
03-20-07, 03:30 AM If you are unconscious, you auto-fail your will save I believe.
CowMasterTrojan
03-20-07, 03:47 AM You know, I thought I had heard that before. But I can't find that anywhere. Any clue where it says that?
runestar
03-20-07, 03:50 AM I think that rule applies only to beneficial spells with the "save/negates" clause. Offensive spells would still be resisted normally.

Thus, an unconscious fighter would be treated as willing for cure light wounds, but still gets his fort save if you try to cast finger of death on him.:)
Nom
03-20-07, 06:54 AM No, it only applies to spells that require "willing" targets (eg dimension door). The captain attempts a save as normal, but probably won't notice even if his save succeeds.
stackmachine
03-20-07, 08:44 AM No, it only applies to spells that require "willing" targets (eg dimension door). The captain attempts a save as normal, but probably won't notice even if his save succeeds.

that definitely is the way to handle this.

another approach: stand around his bed and take out the saps and clubs. since he is sleeping and kinda helpless, you should auto-crit, lets say for at least 100 points of subdual-damage with an assumed party of 4; an unconcious man won't rise an alarm either :). and i think there won't be any duration-issues, if u stay a lil longer.
Far_Traveler
03-20-07, 11:02 AM If lullaby does it for sleepy people, double it for someone who is asleep.

But otherwise it was a good idea on the wizard's part, he sure is playing his character.
CowMasterTrojan
03-20-07, 02:13 PM that definitely is the way to handle this.

another approach: stand around his bed and take out the saps and clubs. since he is sleeping and kinda helpless, you should auto-crit, lets say for at least 100 points of subdual-damage with an assumed party of 4; an unconcious man won't rise an alarm either :). and i think there won't be any duration-issues, if u stay a lil longer.

A good suggestion. I was actually thinking that myself, but I wanted to see what others said.
lint trap
03-20-07, 02:59 PM another approach: stand around his bed and take out the saps and clubs. since he is sleeping and kinda helpless, you should auto-crit, lets say for at least 100 points of subdual-damage with an assumed party of 4; an unconcious man won't rise an alarm either :). and i think there won't be any duration-issues, if u stay a lil longer.

In my game, you can Coup de Grace with a nonlethal weapon, only if they fail the Fort save, they take nonlethal damage equal to their normal hp+10. Same basic principle, slightly different mechanic.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CowMasterTrojan 03-20-07, 03:22 AM	OK, heres the deal. My PC's want to sneak around a guard captain's home to find something they believe is there. They manage to break in without making alot of noise, but discover that the guard captain is sleeping a mere 10 ft away. The wizard decides that he his going to cast sleep on the sleeping guard captain to put him into a deep sleep so they can make as much noise as they want (which is fine since the captain is level 4). My question is this, what kind of modifier do I give to the Guard Captaiin's Will save (he does have a good save). I was thinking a -2 would be fair, but Lullaby gives that just for making them sleepy. So what would be a fair modifier to give?
FrostHammer 03-20-07, 03:30 AM	If you are unconscious, you auto-fail your will save I believe.
CowMasterTrojan 03-20-07, 03:47 AM	You know, I thought I had heard that before. But I can't find that anywhere. Any clue where it says that?
runestar 03-20-07, 03:50 AM	I think that rule applies only to beneficial spells with the "save/negates" clause. Offensive spells would still be resisted normally. Thus, an unconscious fighter would be treated as willing for cure light wounds, but still gets his fort save if you try to cast finger of death on him.:)
Nom 03-20-07, 06:54 AM	No, it only applies to spells that require "willing" targets (eg dimension door). The captain attempts a save as normal, but probably won't notice even if his save succeeds.
stackmachine 03-20-07, 08:44 AM	No, it only applies to spells that require "willing" targets (eg dimension door). The captain attempts a save as normal, but probably won't notice even if his save succeeds. that definitely is the way to handle this. another approach: stand around his bed and take out the saps and clubs. since he is sleeping and kinda helpless, you should auto-crit, lets say for at least 100 points of subdual-damage with an assumed party of 4; an unconcious man won't rise an alarm either :). and i think there won't be any duration-issues, if u stay a lil longer.
Far_Traveler 03-20-07, 11:02 AM	If lullaby does it for sleepy people, double it for someone who is asleep. But otherwise it was a good idea on the wizard's part, he sure is playing his character.
CowMasterTrojan 03-20-07, 02:13 PM	that definitely is the way to handle this. another approach: stand around his bed and take out the saps and clubs. since he is sleeping and kinda helpless, you should auto-crit, lets say for at least 100 points of subdual-damage with an assumed party of 4; an unconcious man won't rise an alarm either :). and i think there won't be any duration-issues, if u stay a lil longer. A good suggestion. I was actually thinking that myself, but I wanted to see what others said.
lint trap 03-20-07, 02:59 PM	another approach: stand around his bed and take out the saps and clubs. since he is sleeping and kinda helpless, you should auto-crit, lets say for at least 100 points of subdual-damage with an assumed party of 4; an unconcious man won't rise an alarm either :). and i think there won't be any duration-issues, if u stay a lil longer. In my game, you can Coup de Grace with a nonlethal weapon, only if they fail the Fort save, they take nonlethal damage equal to their normal hp+10. Same basic principle, slightly different mechanic.