Boots of Pounce [Archive] - Wizards Community

Boots of Pounce [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Beamup
06-09-04, 12:35 PM I'm trying to come up with a reasonable way to create and price a pair of boots that would grant the Pounce ability (at some level) to a PC. Presumably based on the spell Lion's Charge from SS (dru1/wiz2, basically grants Pounce for 1min/lvl).

A use-activated or continuous version of such an item is, of course, superior to the Epic feat Dire Charge and thus is probably inappropriate at any price. So, command word activated (or something similar, not necessarily a spoken word - just a standard action to activate) seems a more reasonable option.

I can see two ways to implement a command-word version of this. Option 1 would be to simply create an item that casts Lion's Charge on the wearer X times a day. Option 2 would be to have it grant Pounce for the wearer's next charge X times a day.

What do people think would be an appropriate price for such an item, either as charges per day or unlimited?

For reference, the guidelines yield a price of 360*(charges per day) or 1800 (unlimited charges) for Option 1. Seems kinda low to me, but it is doing nothing more than casting a level 1 spell as a standard action.
Krelios
06-09-04, 12:38 PM Some spells should not be allowed in the first place, let alone made into items. This is one of them.
tarkin
06-09-04, 01:07 PM I think you should start by FORGETTING about the spell. Work with what you want.

You want a charge that lets people do a Full Round Attack.

Simplest things to do:

1) Activate to do next round - interesting but low power

2) Activate for 1 minute, 1 use only. unlimited activations per day.

3) Activate for 10 minutes, useable multiple times during that activation. Acitavetable 1/day.

4) Continous Item.

Option #1 is the easiest to price. You spend a Standard Action this round, so that next round when you charge you get a Full Attack instead of a single attack.
It seems to be on par with 1st level spells like True Strike, etc., 2,000gp item.

2) Activate for 1 minute is harder. This lets you use it as a buffing device. So basically it is like Option #1, but lets you prepare a little bit ahead of time. I think we are talking about a 5,000 gp item.

3) Now we have something more interesting, but still, let's face it you are likely to use it only twice per activation. The longer run time makes it slightly more helpfull, but the 1/day bit makes it less usefull. I think we can price it at around 8,000 gp.

4) Always on Looks very powerfull no activation, no prep time. 50,000 gp looks right to me.
Edward
06-09-04, 06:56 PM I would work it similar to boots of speed (haste).

You may make 10 pounce attacks a day would be worth about the same as 10 rounds of haste per day. Free action to activate same as deciding to use a round on your boots of speed. 12000gp.

I believe that it is slightly more powerful than haste when it is useful but is useful less often because when you are not charging it provides no bonus.

Edward
Kyuketsukiouji
06-09-04, 07:24 PM Since the "Always on" version of this item is fudamentally giving an Epic Feat, 40,000 gp might be too low.

After all, the Distant Shot weapon enchantment (which does nothing but give the one feat), is +6, which costs a serious 720,000 gp.
Archtyrant Terevoth
06-09-04, 07:28 PM Handing out an epic feat is probably not a good idea. And really pounce is better than dire charge, because it allows you to full attack on any charge, not just the first charge of a combat that dire charge allows.

I agree with Krelios. The lion's charge spell is pretty much too good in the first place. I wouldn't allow it.

Personally I'd prefer the pounce ability just be done away with in general.
Big Dawg
06-10-04, 09:37 AM I would work it similar to boots of speed (haste).

You may make 10 pounce attacks a day would be worth about the same as 10 rounds of haste per day. Free action to activate same as deciding to use a round on your boots of speed. 12000gp.

I believe that it is slightly more powerful than haste when it is useful but is useful less often because when you are not charging it provides no bonus.

Edward

I like this idea.

Trust me pounce is cool and a good, but not that good. How often are you charging?

It's not epic at all. I know that the Lion of Tailsed, a PrC for Druids and Rangers in the book of exalted deeds allows a one to get the pounce ability at like the 2nd level of the class and it's always active 24/7. I am also fairly sure that I saw a Wild feat in the Complete Divine book called Lions pounce, which grants pounce as well.

I like the boots of speed idea. sounds fair to me
Krelios
06-10-04, 09:41 AM It's not epic at all. Yes it is.
From the SRD...
DIRE CHARGE [EPIC]
Prerequisite: Improved Initiative.
Benefit: If the character charges a foe during the first round of combat (or the surprise round, if the character is allowed to act in it), he or she can make a full attack against the opponent charged.
Normal: Without this feat, a character may only make a single attack as part of a charge. And the epic version only works once per encounter. That just means that the Book of Exalted Deeds is unbalanced too (big surprise). The wild feat at least makes you burn a Wild Shape use to do it.
Blackswordsman
06-10-04, 09:45 AM Maybe its not that the BoED is over powred but the Epic Level handbook just had underpowered epic feats?
Krelios
06-10-04, 09:46 AM No, the BoED is way overpowered. 90% of the people on this board agree.
Mr.Waesel
06-10-04, 10:06 AM 90% of all statsistics are made up on the spot.

Though I agree that 50,000 is too low and the spell should be higher level.
wdarkk
06-10-04, 10:07 AM There are some really useless Epic Feats, and some feats that shouldn't be Epic. This probably isn't one of them.
Big Dawg
06-10-04, 10:09 AM No, the BoED is way overpowered. 90% of the people on this board agree.

yes the book is over powered. While it is really good, I just don't think pounce is epic. my point was plenty of things have pounce or can get it while not even being close to epic levels.

Epic Level handbook just had underpowered epic feats?

Yes I agree here to.
Edward
06-10-04, 10:48 AM i beleve ther are ways to get pounce as early as 4the level druid (wild shape) and then it is also giving you extra atacks.

dire charge is a weak epic feat (as desvcribed here).

incedently i would make haste the prewequisit for my boots (or lions charge). the reason being that in 3.0 hast could alow you to make a full atak on a charge. it also means you cant use hast and these boots in the same round.

Edward
Mahali Audran
06-10-04, 11:33 AM Off the top of my head. 50k maybe.

Pounce allows a full attack at the end of charge which is an ability the Singh Rager gets at about chr lvl 10 at the earliest.

Ring of Evasion is 25k and classes get that a whole lot earlier.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Beamup 06-09-04, 12:35 PM	I'm trying to come up with a reasonable way to create and price a pair of boots that would grant the Pounce ability (at some level) to a PC. Presumably based on the spell Lion's Charge from SS (dru1/wiz2, basically grants Pounce for 1min/lvl). A use-activated or continuous version of such an item is, of course, superior to the Epic feat Dire Charge and thus is probably inappropriate at any price. So, command word activated (or something similar, not necessarily a spoken word - just a standard action to activate) seems a more reasonable option. I can see two ways to implement a command-word version of this. Option 1 would be to simply create an item that casts Lion's Charge on the wearer X times a day. Option 2 would be to have it grant Pounce for the wearer's next charge X times a day. What do people think would be an appropriate price for such an item, either as charges per day or unlimited? For reference, the guidelines yield a price of 360*(charges per day) or 1800 (unlimited charges) for Option 1. Seems kinda low to me, but it is doing nothing more than casting a level 1 spell as a standard action.
Krelios 06-09-04, 12:38 PM	Some spells should not be allowed in the first place, let alone made into items. This is one of them.
tarkin 06-09-04, 01:07 PM	I think you should start by FORGETTING about the spell. Work with what you want. You want a charge that lets people do a Full Round Attack. Simplest things to do: 1) Activate to do next round - interesting but low power 2) Activate for 1 minute, 1 use only. unlimited activations per day. 3) Activate for 10 minutes, useable multiple times during that activation. Acitavetable 1/day. 4) Continous Item. Option #1 is the easiest to price. You spend a Standard Action this round, so that next round when you charge you get a Full Attack instead of a single attack. It seems to be on par with 1st level spells like True Strike, etc., 2,000gp item. 2) Activate for 1 minute is harder. This lets you use it as a buffing device. So basically it is like Option #1, but lets you prepare a little bit ahead of time. I think we are talking about a 5,000 gp item. 3) Now we have something more interesting, but still, let's face it you are likely to use it only twice per activation. The longer run time makes it slightly more helpfull, but the 1/day bit makes it less usefull. I think we can price it at around 8,000 gp. 4) Always on Looks very powerfull no activation, no prep time. 50,000 gp looks right to me.
Edward 06-09-04, 06:56 PM	I would work it similar to boots of speed (haste). You may make 10 pounce attacks a day would be worth about the same as 10 rounds of haste per day. Free action to activate same as deciding to use a round on your boots of speed. 12000gp. I believe that it is slightly more powerful than haste when it is useful but is useful less often because when you are not charging it provides no bonus. Edward
Kyuketsukiouji 06-09-04, 07:24 PM	Since the "Always on" version of this item is fudamentally giving an Epic Feat, 40,000 gp might be too low. After all, the Distant Shot weapon enchantment (which does nothing but give the one feat), is +6, which costs a serious 720,000 gp.
Archtyrant Terevoth 06-09-04, 07:28 PM	Handing out an epic feat is probably not a good idea. And really pounce is better than dire charge, because it allows you to full attack on any charge, not just the first charge of a combat that dire charge allows. I agree with Krelios. The lion's charge spell is pretty much too good in the first place. I wouldn't allow it. Personally I'd prefer the pounce ability just be done away with in general.
Big Dawg 06-10-04, 09:37 AM	I would work it similar to boots of speed (haste). You may make 10 pounce attacks a day would be worth about the same as 10 rounds of haste per day. Free action to activate same as deciding to use a round on your boots of speed. 12000gp. I believe that it is slightly more powerful than haste when it is useful but is useful less often because when you are not charging it provides no bonus. Edward I like this idea. Trust me pounce is cool and a good, but not that good. How often are you charging? It's not epic at all. I know that the Lion of Tailsed, a PrC for Druids and Rangers in the book of exalted deeds allows a one to get the pounce ability at like the 2nd level of the class and it's always active 24/7. I am also fairly sure that I saw a Wild feat in the Complete Divine book called Lions pounce, which grants pounce as well. I like the boots of speed idea. sounds fair to me
Krelios 06-10-04, 09:41 AM	It's not epic at all. Yes it is. From the SRD... DIRE CHARGE [EPIC] Prerequisite: Improved Initiative. Benefit: If the character charges a foe during the first round of combat (or the surprise round, if the character is allowed to act in it), he or she can make a full attack against the opponent charged. Normal: Without this feat, a character may only make a single attack as part of a charge. And the epic version only works once per encounter. That just means that the Book of Exalted Deeds is unbalanced too (big surprise). The wild feat at least makes you burn a Wild Shape use to do it.
Blackswordsman 06-10-04, 09:45 AM	Maybe its not that the BoED is over powred but the Epic Level handbook just had underpowered epic feats?
Krelios 06-10-04, 09:46 AM	No, the BoED is way overpowered. 90% of the people on this board agree.
Mr.Waesel 06-10-04, 10:06 AM	90% of all statsistics are made up on the spot. Though I agree that 50,000 is too low and the spell should be higher level.
wdarkk 06-10-04, 10:07 AM	There are some really useless Epic Feats, and some feats that shouldn't be Epic. This probably isn't one of them.
Big Dawg 06-10-04, 10:09 AM	No, the BoED is way overpowered. 90% of the people on this board agree. yes the book is over powered. While it is really good, I just don't think pounce is epic. my point was plenty of things have pounce or can get it while not even being close to epic levels. Epic Level handbook just had underpowered epic feats? Yes I agree here to.
Edward 06-10-04, 10:48 AM	i beleve ther are ways to get pounce as early as 4the level druid (wild shape) and then it is also giving you extra atacks. dire charge is a weak epic feat (as desvcribed here). incedently i would make haste the prewequisit for my boots (or lions charge). the reason being that in 3.0 hast could alow you to make a full atak on a charge. it also means you cant use hast and these boots in the same round. Edward
Mahali Audran 06-10-04, 11:33 AM	Off the top of my head. 50k maybe. Pounce allows a full attack at the end of charge which is an ability the Singh Rager gets at about chr lvl 10 at the earliest. Ring of Evasion is 25k and classes get that a whole lot earlier.