Boots of...Fastness? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Boots of...Fastness? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
KurenaiYami
08-11-06, 03:39 PM I'm going through the DMG page 285, thinking of magical items to create, but some of these prices don't seem to work with what is being given.

Boots of Fastness

+30 feet base land movement, continuous.

4,000.

I got this price from the spell Expiditious Retreat as the base spell.

Caster Level (1) x Spell Level (1) x 2,000 gp, multiply by 2 since the duration is 1 minute per level.

1) Did I do something wrong, or would it really only cost 4,000 gp for +30 movement speed, continous effect?

2) If I instead made this a Command Word item, it would only cost 1,800 gp?

3) If it was a command word item, would it only be usable a certain number of times per day, or is it unlimited use?
KirkBb
08-11-06, 03:47 PM Those prices are mearly meant to be guidelines, the item you have there is way to cheap, two, if you wanted to make it command word activated, it wouldn't have any limits on use, but you would have to spend a standard action to activate it.

Try comparing this item to other existing items of higher price, because right now I can't really think of a reason a player would pick boots of springing and striding over this item.
cwslyclgh
08-11-06, 03:50 PM using the tables is the least best way to calculate magical item prices... the best way is to look for other similar items and set the prices based upon those...

lets look at another set of boots that increases speed...

Boots of Striding and Springing: These boots increase the wearer’s base land speed by 10 feet. In addition to this striding ability (considered an enhancement bonus), these boots allow the wearer to make great leaps. She can jump with a +5 competence bonus on Jump checks.
Faint transmutation; CL 3rd; Craft Wondrous Item, longstrider, creator must have 5 ranks in the Jump skill; Price 5,500 gp; Weight 1 lb.

+5 to a skill check is worth 2,500 gp (based on stuff such as boots of elvenkind, and cloak of elvenkind) so the 10 feet of movement increase is costed at 3k with the boots of striding and springing... for boots that added 3 times that to your movement I would say 9k would be a fair price.
Cayl
08-11-06, 03:51 PM This seems to basically be a copy of the Boots of Striding and Springing from 3.0. I think it was fair to make them more expensive because really it was one of the best bargain items in the game at the time. It was always one of the first 3 items I'd purchase with my discretionary funds.

What you're proposing is kind of like making a "Ring of Can't See Me" based on Invisibility continuous and coming up way cheaper than a "Ring of Invisibility" ... It was made more expensive than the forumlae predict on purpose.
KurenaiYami
08-11-06, 03:59 PM So there's no real hard and fast way to calculate costs of Wondrous Items that I make? Just a "see how evil they are compared to other stuff" system?

This saddens me.

Is it just wondrous items that are like this or are there other items as well, like Rods? (Wands and Staves seem like their set system should work)
utilitarian
08-11-06, 04:05 PM I'm going through the DMG page 285, thinking of magical items to create, but some of these prices don't seem to work with what is being given.

Boots of Fastness

+30 feet base land movement, continuous.

4,000.

I got this price from the spell Expiditious Retreat as the base spell.

Caster Level (1) x Spell Level (1) x 2,000 gp, multiply by 2 since the duration is 1 minute per level.

1) Did I do something wrong, or would it really only cost 4,000 gp for +30 movement speed, continous effect?

2) If I instead made this a Command Word item, it would only cost 1,800 gp?

3) If it was a command word item, would it only be usable a certain number of times per day, or is it unlimited use?

Your math is fine, but as others have pointed out, those are guidelines. Command word items are unlimited use, but if made at 1st level each use of the item only only last a minute. If you wanted it to last longer, you would have to increase the caster level, which would likewise increase the price of the item.

Now, as a completely seperate tyrade, I have a serious problem with the "wonderous item creation table is a guidline" method. From an in game perspective, the cost of creating a magical item is directly proportional to the magical power needed to create that item. No one is claiming that a wand of mage armor costs more or less than a wand of shocking grasp because one is more or less powerful than the other. Perhaps on the open market one might sell for more, but the cost of making either is the same.

From an in game perspective, it makes absolutely no sense that any 1cl/1st level spell continuous use would cost any more to create than any other.

As an example: Continuous Enlarge Person Belt (or whatever the appropreate item slot) would cost the same amount by the table, 4000gp. Now let's say that we also decide this is too little for the effect, so we make it 6000gp, and the Continuous Expedious Retreat Boots are worth 9000gp. That's well and good when we're buying them in a shop, but what about when we're creating them? Why does one level 1 spell with 1min/level duration mysteriously cost a wizard 3000gp more to create than another? It's not any harder for him to cast, it doesn't last any longer, yet somehow it costs more. The in game perspective just doesn't make any sense.
cwslyclgh
08-11-06, 04:08 PM perhaps some spells are harder to tie nto permanent magical items then others for obscure arcane reasons other then spell level?
Cayl
08-11-06, 04:09 PM Well first, there is no rule whatsoever in D&D3.5 that says custom magic items MUST be allowed. There is an optional set of guidelines that attempts to put a framework around something that is at best a science and an art... balancing your game.

Wonderous Items are the worst. If you think about it, there's nothing you couldn't make that wouldn't fit into the wonderous item category. Since its the "Miscellaneous" category, its the hardest to price.

Rods also are rather miscellaneous. How do you price a feat? How do you price something that's not based on a normal spell effect. they're probably second hardest to price, and my groups have typically not allowed custom rods.

Rings are probably the third worst, but they are at least based specifically on things there are rules for. ability enhancements, spell effects or skills. There are exceptions of course, but most custom rings follow that rule.

Weapons and armor generally not too bad, unless you're trying to create a custom effect. Basically you just have to look around, find something similar and rate its power from 1-5.

Scrolls and wands as you say do follow their formulas exactly in almost every circumstance.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KurenaiYami 08-11-06, 03:39 PM	I'm going through the DMG page 285, thinking of magical items to create, but some of these prices don't seem to work with what is being given. Boots of Fastness +30 feet base land movement, continuous. 4,000. I got this price from the spell Expiditious Retreat as the base spell. Caster Level (1) x Spell Level (1) x 2,000 gp, multiply by 2 since the duration is 1 minute per level. 1) Did I do something wrong, or would it really only cost 4,000 gp for +30 movement speed, continous effect? 2) If I instead made this a Command Word item, it would only cost 1,800 gp? 3) If it was a command word item, would it only be usable a certain number of times per day, or is it unlimited use?
KirkBb 08-11-06, 03:47 PM	Those prices are mearly meant to be guidelines, the item you have there is way to cheap, two, if you wanted to make it command word activated, it wouldn't have any limits on use, but you would have to spend a standard action to activate it. Try comparing this item to other existing items of higher price, because right now I can't really think of a reason a player would pick boots of springing and striding over this item.
cwslyclgh 08-11-06, 03:50 PM	using the tables is the least best way to calculate magical item prices... the best way is to look for other similar items and set the prices based upon those... lets look at another set of boots that increases speed... Boots of Striding and Springing: These boots increase the wearer’s base land speed by 10 feet. In addition to this striding ability (considered an enhancement bonus), these boots allow the wearer to make great leaps. She can jump with a +5 competence bonus on Jump checks. Faint transmutation; CL 3rd; Craft Wondrous Item, longstrider, creator must have 5 ranks in the Jump skill; Price 5,500 gp; Weight 1 lb. +5 to a skill check is worth 2,500 gp (based on stuff such as boots of elvenkind, and cloak of elvenkind) so the 10 feet of movement increase is costed at 3k with the boots of striding and springing... for boots that added 3 times that to your movement I would say 9k would be a fair price.
Cayl 08-11-06, 03:51 PM	This seems to basically be a copy of the Boots of Striding and Springing from 3.0. I think it was fair to make them more expensive because really it was one of the best bargain items in the game at the time. It was always one of the first 3 items I'd purchase with my discretionary funds. What you're proposing is kind of like making a "Ring of Can't See Me" based on Invisibility continuous and coming up way cheaper than a "Ring of Invisibility" ... It was made more expensive than the forumlae predict on purpose.
KurenaiYami 08-11-06, 03:59 PM	So there's no real hard and fast way to calculate costs of Wondrous Items that I make? Just a "see how evil they are compared to other stuff" system? This saddens me. Is it just wondrous items that are like this or are there other items as well, like Rods? (Wands and Staves seem like their set system should work)
utilitarian 08-11-06, 04:05 PM	I'm going through the DMG page 285, thinking of magical items to create, but some of these prices don't seem to work with what is being given. Boots of Fastness +30 feet base land movement, continuous. 4,000. I got this price from the spell Expiditious Retreat as the base spell. Caster Level (1) x Spell Level (1) x 2,000 gp, multiply by 2 since the duration is 1 minute per level. 1) Did I do something wrong, or would it really only cost 4,000 gp for +30 movement speed, continous effect? 2) If I instead made this a Command Word item, it would only cost 1,800 gp? 3) If it was a command word item, would it only be usable a certain number of times per day, or is it unlimited use? Your math is fine, but as others have pointed out, those are guidelines. Command word items are unlimited use, but if made at 1st level each use of the item only only last a minute. If you wanted it to last longer, you would have to increase the caster level, which would likewise increase the price of the item. Now, as a completely seperate tyrade, I have a serious problem with the "wonderous item creation table is a guidline" method. From an in game perspective, the cost of creating a magical item is directly proportional to the magical power needed to create that item. No one is claiming that a wand of mage armor costs more or less than a wand of shocking grasp because one is more or less powerful than the other. Perhaps on the open market one might sell for more, but the cost of making either is the same. From an in game perspective, it makes absolutely no sense that any 1cl/1st level spell continuous use would cost any more to create than any other. As an example: Continuous Enlarge Person Belt (or whatever the appropreate item slot) would cost the same amount by the table, 4000gp. Now let's say that we also decide this is too little for the effect, so we make it 6000gp, and the Continuous Expedious Retreat Boots are worth 9000gp. That's well and good when we're buying them in a shop, but what about when we're creating them? Why does one level 1 spell with 1min/level duration mysteriously cost a wizard 3000gp more to create than another? It's not any harder for him to cast, it doesn't last any longer, yet somehow it costs more. The in game perspective just doesn't make any sense.
cwslyclgh 08-11-06, 04:08 PM	perhaps some spells are harder to tie nto permanent magical items then others for obscure arcane reasons other then spell level?
Cayl 08-11-06, 04:09 PM	Well first, there is no rule whatsoever in D&D3.5 that says custom magic items MUST be allowed. There is an optional set of guidelines that attempts to put a framework around something that is at best a science and an art... balancing your game. Wonderous Items are the worst. If you think about it, there's nothing you couldn't make that wouldn't fit into the wonderous item category. Since its the "Miscellaneous" category, its the hardest to price. Rods also are rather miscellaneous. How do you price a feat? How do you price something that's not based on a normal spell effect. they're probably second hardest to price, and my groups have typically not allowed custom rods. Rings are probably the third worst, but they are at least based specifically on things there are rules for. ability enhancements, spell effects or skills. There are exceptions of course, but most custom rings follow that rule. Weapons and armor generally not too bad, unless you're trying to create a custom effect. Basically you just have to look around, find something similar and rate its power from 1-5. Scrolls and wands as you say do follow their formulas exactly in almost every circumstance.