Bracers of Archery: Could they be made for other weapons as well? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bracers of Archery: Could they be made for other weapons as well? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xeviat-DM
02-01-04, 09:12 AM Lesser Bracers of Archery cost 5,000 gp, and they emulate two feats. Either Martial Weapon Prof Shortbow and Martiel Weapon Prof Longbow, or Weapon Focus in both the Short and Longbows.

Greater Bracers of Archery cost a further 20,000 gp, and they emulate two feats or four feats; that being Weapon Specialization for both bows (except the bonuses are switched for some reason).

Now, would this be fair to craft such an item for other weapons? Such as bracers of swordsmanship, which gave such bonuses to longswords, or bracers of the samurai for the katana.

I am interested in this because I am helping a player choose his equipment for a high level campaign (12th). He is an Eldritch Knight/Sorcerer, and I've become aware of his poor attack bonus (especially compared to his own AC, 29 AC vs. a +13 to hit is sad). Of course, he has other things to fall back upon, like lightning bolting people, but I'd rather not make him feel as if his choice to be an Eldritch Knight was made in vein.

Thanks.
tarkin
02-01-04, 10:19 AM 1) The bracers of archery are a very good device. And, as they stack with the feats you mentioned, they are NOT things that just duplicate the feats. I would be hesitant to use that same abilities.

2) Archery traditionally used bracers. If I were to allow the weapon to be switched I would insist on finding a similar type traditionally used item, or charge the official 50% penalty for using an innappropriate slot.

3) I see no real reason to do this besides a power grab. If I were your DM I would tell you to design your own item instead of taking a cool item that is well designed specifically for archery.
TWG_Prometheus
02-01-04, 11:48 AM I be very careful about allowing any such item in my own campaign. Yes, such bracers would be helpful, but there's a reason that archery in particular needed them. At high levels (levels where a PC could purchase the Greater Bracers of Archery in particular) an archer ends up falling behind on damage without being able to add any damage modifiers. Even with a +5 bow and Weapon Specialization, you tend to get badly outgunned, partially due to the lack of Power Attack and partially due to the fact that a meele fighter only needs to optimize one statistic for both Attack and Damage, while an archer needs to optimize two. (assuming you're using composite longbows, if not it gets worse)

I can't read the minds of the folks at Wizards, but I believe the Bracers of Archery were included as a balancing factor to help the archers out. Can you make such bracers for other types of weapons? Yeah, probably. Unless it's something that has similar problems to the ones archery faces in dealing damage at high levels, I wouldn't recommend it for balance reasons, though. The Lesser Bracers of Archery that just add Attack are much less worrisome.
Edymnion
02-01-04, 03:17 PM Originally posted by TWG_Prometheus
I be very careful about allowing any such item in my own campaign. Yes, such bracers would be helpful, but there's a reason that archery in particular needed them. At high levels (levels where a PC could purchase the Greater Bracers of Archery in particular) an archer ends up falling behind on damage without being able to add any damage modifiers. Even with a +5 bow and Weapon Specialization, you tend to get badly outgunned, partially due to the lack of Power Attack and partially due to the fact that a meele fighter only needs to optimize one statistic for both Attack and Damage, while an archer needs to optimize two. (assuming you're using composite longbows, if not it gets worse) Lol, well if the Archers are lagging behind, just throw the 3.5 "Bows and Arrows Don't Stack" rule out the window and go back to 3.0 where they did. Really helps to fill that gap, but it really took someone playing an Archer to realize that the double stacking wasn't overpowered, that it was rather vital in letting the Archer keep up with the Great Sword Weilding Power Attacking Raging Barbarian.
BlackSmith
02-01-04, 06:41 PM Originally posted by tarkin
2) Archery traditionally used bracers. If I were to allow the weapon to be switched I would insist on finding a similar type traditionally used item, or charge the official 50% penalty for using an innappropriate slot.that would be then gauntlet or leather glove.
da chicken
02-01-04, 08:05 PM Originally posted by Edymnion
Lol, well if the Archers are lagging behind, just throw the 3.5 "Bows and Arrows Don't Stack" rule out the window and go back to 3.0 where they did. Really helps to fill that gap, but it really took someone playing an Archer to realize that the double stacking wasn't overpowered, that it was rather vital in letting the Archer keep up with the Great Sword Weilding Power Attacking Raging Barbarian.

You're kidding, right? I don't think I've seen a combat where the archer didn't outdamage the melee guys. Archers can directly benefit from more feats, more items, and more spells than any melee guy.

I take that back. Archers suck against elder elementals (DR 10/--).

I see no problem with Gauntlets of Swordsmanship, however. It's not like mighty bows don't exist.
Xeviat-DM
02-05-04, 02:47 PM Yeah, I was going to mention mighty bows. Really now, every sane archer uses them at some point or another. Do you know what else balances out archers? Full Str damage on Rapid Shot (if you're using a mighty bow that is), and not having your enemy in your face. Point Blank Shot is also better than any melee feat.
Xeviat-DM
02-05-04, 02:49 PM Originally posted by tarkin
3) I see no real reason to do this besides a power grab. If I were your DM I would tell you to design your own item instead of taking a cool item that is well designed specifically for archery.

Originally posted by Xeviat-DM
I am interested in this because I am helping a player choose his equipment for a high level campaign (12th). He is an Eldritch Knight/Sorcerer, and I've become aware of his poor attack bonus (especially compared to his own AC, 29 AC vs. a +13 to hit is sad). Of course, he has other things to fall back upon, like lightning bolting people, but I'd rather not make him feel as if his choice to be an Eldritch Knight was made in vein.

I thought this one implied that I am the DM. Oh well.
lanilifar
02-05-04, 03:02 PM Your knight might like this:
Vest of Combat Prowess
When worn by a fighter, this black vest imparts knowledge of combat tactics and maneuvers upon the wearer. The wearer gains better instincts in order to time his blows and work his way through enemies defenses. It grants a competence bonus to attack and damage. The wearer can only benefit from +1 / 3 fighter levels. Faint Divination ; CL 5th ; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Guidance, creator’s caster level must be at least three times the vest’s bonus; Price 1,600 (+1), 6,400 (+2), 14,400 (+3), 25,600 (+4), 40,000 (+5)

You could replace the fighter level requirement with knight levels, or just remove it completely and price it at 2,000, 8,000, 18,000, 32,000, and 50,000.
coofpsychycic
02-05-04, 04:33 PM to apply extra's for items that allow extra's for regular weapons the traite scores rather than class should apply

thus character's can make an accumulation of extra's at a fair level of chance and take,if you allow 'great sword bracers' for only 20 str and 20 dex rather than level 10 epic class,it's use is modified

further adding the price for higher level's,wether for an excuse or not,can work

say+6000 gp every 5 level's,working from the fact that other extra's attack/& damage will have been added to the character
Nick Soapdish
02-05-04, 04:49 PM Originally posted by Xeviat-DM
I thought this one implied that I am the DM. Oh well.

Sort of. But in some campaigns, the players help each other out.

Why's his attack bonus so low anyway? Does he have low stats or is Strength one of his worse stats? He's worse than the fighter2/rogue2/wizard8 in our party was in 3.0 (although he concentrated on archery - sans the bracers incidentally).

Duping the bracers, but in the vest slot seems like a decent idea. You could have it take the slot usually occupied by armor (since I don't recall whether it actually does).

I'd be hesitant about introducing the item at large, but I have no problem with allowing a non-standard item to help balance out a weaker build.
Xeviat-DM
02-06-04, 02:40 AM Here's the reason why his attack bonus is a little on the low side.
Starting Stats (32 point buy): Str 14 (needs 13 for EWP Katana), Dex 14 (needs 13 for the dodge chain and AC), Con 14 (to not die), Int 14 (needs 13 for the expertise chain and skill points), Wis 8 (character fun, haha), Cha 15 (to be a decent sorcerer).

He's been forced to focus equally on his Str, Dex, and Cha items, currently he only has a +2 item for each. Additionally, he crafts his own weapons and armor, so he's currently limited to a +2 enhancement while many of the other party members are using +5 equivalent weapons.

Now, he's just picked up the Arcane Strike feat from CW, so I don't think there will be many more problems. But it's still something to consider; why is such an item balanced for Archery, when archery currently has little damage problems as long as you get an appropriate Mighty bow.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xeviat-DM 02-01-04, 09:12 AM	Lesser Bracers of Archery cost 5,000 gp, and they emulate two feats. Either Martial Weapon Prof Shortbow and Martiel Weapon Prof Longbow, or Weapon Focus in both the Short and Longbows. Greater Bracers of Archery cost a further 20,000 gp, and they emulate two feats or four feats; that being Weapon Specialization for both bows (except the bonuses are switched for some reason). Now, would this be fair to craft such an item for other weapons? Such as bracers of swordsmanship, which gave such bonuses to longswords, or bracers of the samurai for the katana. I am interested in this because I am helping a player choose his equipment for a high level campaign (12th). He is an Eldritch Knight/Sorcerer, and I've become aware of his poor attack bonus (especially compared to his own AC, 29 AC vs. a +13 to hit is sad). Of course, he has other things to fall back upon, like lightning bolting people, but I'd rather not make him feel as if his choice to be an Eldritch Knight was made in vein. Thanks.
tarkin 02-01-04, 10:19 AM	1) The bracers of archery are a very good device. And, as they stack with the feats you mentioned, they are NOT things that just duplicate the feats. I would be hesitant to use that same abilities. 2) Archery traditionally used bracers. If I were to allow the weapon to be switched I would insist on finding a similar type traditionally used item, or charge the official 50% penalty for using an innappropriate slot. 3) I see no real reason to do this besides a power grab. If I were your DM I would tell you to design your own item instead of taking a cool item that is well designed specifically for archery.
TWG_Prometheus 02-01-04, 11:48 AM	I be very careful about allowing any such item in my own campaign. Yes, such bracers would be helpful, but there's a reason that archery in particular needed them. At high levels (levels where a PC could purchase the Greater Bracers of Archery in particular) an archer ends up falling behind on damage without being able to add any damage modifiers. Even with a +5 bow and Weapon Specialization, you tend to get badly outgunned, partially due to the lack of Power Attack and partially due to the fact that a meele fighter only needs to optimize one statistic for both Attack and Damage, while an archer needs to optimize two. (assuming you're using composite longbows, if not it gets worse) I can't read the minds of the folks at Wizards, but I believe the Bracers of Archery were included as a balancing factor to help the archers out. Can you make such bracers for other types of weapons? Yeah, probably. Unless it's something that has similar problems to the ones archery faces in dealing damage at high levels, I wouldn't recommend it for balance reasons, though. The Lesser Bracers of Archery that just add Attack are much less worrisome.
Edymnion 02-01-04, 03:17 PM	Originally posted by TWG_Prometheus I be very careful about allowing any such item in my own campaign. Yes, such bracers would be helpful, but there's a reason that archery in particular needed them. At high levels (levels where a PC could purchase the Greater Bracers of Archery in particular) an archer ends up falling behind on damage without being able to add any damage modifiers. Even with a +5 bow and Weapon Specialization, you tend to get badly outgunned, partially due to the lack of Power Attack and partially due to the fact that a meele fighter only needs to optimize one statistic for both Attack and Damage, while an archer needs to optimize two. (assuming you're using composite longbows, if not it gets worse) Lol, well if the Archers are lagging behind, just throw the 3.5 "Bows and Arrows Don't Stack" rule out the window and go back to 3.0 where they did. Really helps to fill that gap, but it really took someone playing an Archer to realize that the double stacking wasn't overpowered, that it was rather vital in letting the Archer keep up with the Great Sword Weilding Power Attacking Raging Barbarian.
BlackSmith 02-01-04, 06:41 PM	Originally posted by tarkin 2) Archery traditionally used bracers. If I were to allow the weapon to be switched I would insist on finding a similar type traditionally used item, or charge the official 50% penalty for using an innappropriate slot.that would be then gauntlet or leather glove.
da chicken 02-01-04, 08:05 PM	Originally posted by Edymnion Lol, well if the Archers are lagging behind, just throw the 3.5 "Bows and Arrows Don't Stack" rule out the window and go back to 3.0 where they did. Really helps to fill that gap, but it really took someone playing an Archer to realize that the double stacking wasn't overpowered, that it was rather vital in letting the Archer keep up with the Great Sword Weilding Power Attacking Raging Barbarian. You're kidding, right? I don't think I've seen a combat where the archer didn't outdamage the melee guys. Archers can directly benefit from more feats, more items, and more spells than any melee guy. I take that back. Archers suck against elder elementals (DR 10/--). I see no problem with Gauntlets of Swordsmanship, however. It's not like mighty bows don't exist.
Xeviat-DM 02-05-04, 02:47 PM	Yeah, I was going to mention mighty bows. Really now, every sane archer uses them at some point or another. Do you know what else balances out archers? Full Str damage on Rapid Shot (if you're using a mighty bow that is), and not having your enemy in your face. Point Blank Shot is also better than any melee feat.
Xeviat-DM 02-05-04, 02:49 PM	Originally posted by tarkin 3) I see no real reason to do this besides a power grab. If I were your DM I would tell you to design your own item instead of taking a cool item that is well designed specifically for archery. Originally posted by Xeviat-DM I am interested in this because I am helping a player choose his equipment for a high level campaign (12th). He is an Eldritch Knight/Sorcerer, and I've become aware of his poor attack bonus (especially compared to his own AC, 29 AC vs. a +13 to hit is sad). Of course, he has other things to fall back upon, like lightning bolting people, but I'd rather not make him feel as if his choice to be an Eldritch Knight was made in vein. I thought this one implied that I am the DM. Oh well.
lanilifar 02-05-04, 03:02 PM	Your knight might like this: Vest of Combat Prowess When worn by a fighter, this black vest imparts knowledge of combat tactics and maneuvers upon the wearer. The wearer gains better instincts in order to time his blows and work his way through enemies defenses. It grants a competence bonus to attack and damage. The wearer can only benefit from +1 / 3 fighter levels. Faint Divination ; CL 5th ; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Guidance, creator’s caster level must be at least three times the vest’s bonus; Price 1,600 (+1), 6,400 (+2), 14,400 (+3), 25,600 (+4), 40,000 (+5) You could replace the fighter level requirement with knight levels, or just remove it completely and price it at 2,000, 8,000, 18,000, 32,000, and 50,000.
coofpsychycic 02-05-04, 04:33 PM	to apply extra's for items that allow extra's for regular weapons the traite scores rather than class should apply thus character's can make an accumulation of extra's at a fair level of chance and take,if you allow 'great sword bracers' for only 20 str and 20 dex rather than level 10 epic class,it's use is modified further adding the price for higher level's,wether for an excuse or not,can work say+6000 gp every 5 level's,working from the fact that other extra's attack/& damage will have been added to the character
Nick Soapdish 02-05-04, 04:49 PM	Originally posted by Xeviat-DM I thought this one implied that I am the DM. Oh well. Sort of. But in some campaigns, the players help each other out. Why's his attack bonus so low anyway? Does he have low stats or is Strength one of his worse stats? He's worse than the fighter2/rogue2/wizard8 in our party was in 3.0 (although he concentrated on archery - sans the bracers incidentally). Duping the bracers, but in the vest slot seems like a decent idea. You could have it take the slot usually occupied by armor (since I don't recall whether it actually does). I'd be hesitant about introducing the item at large, but I have no problem with allowing a non-standard item to help balance out a weaker build.
Xeviat-DM 02-06-04, 02:40 AM	Here's the reason why his attack bonus is a little on the low side. Starting Stats (32 point buy): Str 14 (needs 13 for EWP Katana), Dex 14 (needs 13 for the dodge chain and AC), Con 14 (to not die), Int 14 (needs 13 for the expertise chain and skill points), Wis 8 (character fun, haha), Cha 15 (to be a decent sorcerer). He's been forced to focus equally on his Str, Dex, and Cha items, currently he only has a +2 item for each. Additionally, he crafts his own weapons and armor, so he's currently limited to a +2 enhancement while many of the other party members are using +5 equivalent weapons. Now, he's just picked up the Arcane Strike feat from CW, so I don't think there will be many more problems. But it's still something to consider; why is such an item balanced for Archery, when archery currently has little damage problems as long as you get an appropriate Mighty bow.