Bracers of Armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bracers of Armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thomarus
05-18-04, 03:44 PM This question is based on 3.5 rules.

Because they provide an armor bonus and thus, don't stack with armor that is worn, can they have an enhancement bonus put on them? And if not an enhancement, can they have anything else, like a sacred, insight, etc? Seems to me since they act like armor it can be enhanced but maybe I'm way off.
tarkin
05-18-04, 04:02 PM Yes you can get an Enhancement on them.

Bracers of Armor +2 is just Bracers of Armor +1 with a +1 enhancment on it.

Some people have even suggested allowing people to get non AC Armor bonuses put on them. (Shadow, Invunerability, etc.) But that would be a House Rule.
Krelios
05-18-04, 04:06 PM Originally posted by Thomarus
This question is based on 3.5 rules.

Because they provide an armor bonus and thus, don't stack with armor that is worn, can they have an enhancement bonus put on them? And if not an enhancement, can they have anything else, like a sacred, insight, etc? Seems to me since they act like armor it can be enhanced but maybe I'm way off. They are enchanted as wonderous items. There are no rules for adding the armor-specific enhancements to wonderous items, so you and your DM will have to use the formulas for replicating those effects and adjust accordingly.
Thomarus
05-18-04, 04:15 PM Not sure I follow you Tarkin. Lemme tell you what I was thinking. Bracers AC 8 (Which is I think the max) then a +5 enhancement bonus on top of that.

Krelios, that's what I figured. One DM has ruled that they're armor so they don't count against touch attacks so he'd probably allow it.

Thanks to you both.
Tsuul
05-18-04, 04:17 PM Don't confuse the lad.
Bracers of Armor +2 is not a culmination of Bracers of Armor +1 and a +1 armor enhancement bonus.

I caution any DM from allowing this because it makes bracers of armor much cheaper to get. "I'll just get Bracers of Armor +3 and add a +1 enhancement bonus to it for the wonderful price of 10,000 instead of paying 16,000 for a +4 armor adjustment."
Scandal
05-18-04, 04:23 PM Arms and Equipment guide have the rules for adding enchantment bonuses to Bracers of armor IIRC..

-Scan
Beamup
05-18-04, 04:34 PM Originally posted by Thomarus
Bracers AC 8 (Which is I think the max) then a +5 enhancement bonus on top of that.

Sure, you can basically do this - Bracers that grant +13 to AC.

For 169,000 if you want it to all be an armor bonus.

Or for 178,000 if you want it to be +8 armor and +5 deflection.

Or for 190,500 if you want it to be +8 armor and +5 something else.
SpellMaster
05-18-04, 04:36 PM Just confirming that the Arms and Equipment Guide does indeed have rules for enhancing bracers of armour with special armour abilities.
Thomarus
05-18-04, 05:07 PM Yeah, I figured the cost would be staggering since it would follow the same rules as the belt that gives plus to strength and con (IE times 2 cost). Thanks again all for the replies and especially about the info of it being in the arms and equipment.
Sisyfos
05-18-04, 06:13 PM A&E indeed has that information. Be careful implementing it though. Bracers of armor can very easily become better than any other armor, which changes the game balance and campaign characteristics considerably.

The balancing factor between heavy armor, light armor and bracers has so far been the max dex limit that armors give. Bracers of armor do not have a max dex limit so allowing enchanting bracers gives campaigns an armor with base armor 8 + enchantment bonus 5 =13 and max dex unlimited. This is a lot better than the best heavy armors so suddenly all the tough guys will be walking around naked and heavy armor proficiency becomes pretty worthless at high levels. In the end it is just all about what kind of games you like.

Sisyfos
SpellMaster
05-18-04, 08:30 PM Ah, there you are wrong my friend.

Bracers of armour cannot get a +5 enhancement bonus. The max they can go up to is +8 armour, non-epic that is. The other +5 is for enhancements only. You cannot have bracers of armour +13, for example, in a non-epic game. You could have Bracers of Armour +8 of Heavy Fortification, though.
UZI
05-18-04, 10:48 PM An enhancement bonus enhances another bonus.

An enhancement bonus to armor is applied to armor.

A suit of +1 Studded Leather Armor does not supply a +3 armor bonus and a +1 armor enhancement bonus. It supplies a +4 armor bonus, because its base armor bonus has been enhanced by +1.

Enhancement bonuses to armor can only be placed on a set of masterwork armor. The bracers do not qualify for this condition.
Servant
05-18-04, 10:53 PM Originally posted by Thomarus
Not sure I follow you Tarkin. Lemme tell you what I was thinking. Bracers AC 8 (Which is I think the max) then a +5 enhancement bonus on top of that.

You're being confused by the old AD&D notation for bracers, when you could get "Bracers AC 2" as an item and they decreased your AC by 8, which was a good thing back then. But in D&D 3.x, you just get "+n Bracers of Armor" which give a +n armor bonus to AC, where n normally ranges from 1 to 8.
tarkin
05-19-04, 11:38 AM The simplest answer is "no". More specifically, +8 is the maximum non-epic AC you can get from Bracers, regardless of what cheasy explanation you try and come up with about how they did it. Enhacment would be the ultimate cheese but other types of modifers would still count as cheesy.

My earlier explanation was an attempt to show him why such a thing would be cheesy. Bracers AC 2 is identical to Bracers AC 1 with a +1 enhancment. There is NO difference between the two. As such trying to claim that Bracers 8 with a +1 enhancmeent is legal is cheesy because they are the exact same thing as Bracers 9, which we previously realized was illegal.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thomarus 05-18-04, 03:44 PM	This question is based on 3.5 rules. Because they provide an armor bonus and thus, don't stack with armor that is worn, can they have an enhancement bonus put on them? And if not an enhancement, can they have anything else, like a sacred, insight, etc? Seems to me since they act like armor it can be enhanced but maybe I'm way off.
tarkin 05-18-04, 04:02 PM	Yes you can get an Enhancement on them. Bracers of Armor +2 is just Bracers of Armor +1 with a +1 enhancment on it. Some people have even suggested allowing people to get non AC Armor bonuses put on them. (Shadow, Invunerability, etc.) But that would be a House Rule.
Krelios 05-18-04, 04:06 PM	Originally posted by Thomarus This question is based on 3.5 rules. Because they provide an armor bonus and thus, don't stack with armor that is worn, can they have an enhancement bonus put on them? And if not an enhancement, can they have anything else, like a sacred, insight, etc? Seems to me since they act like armor it can be enhanced but maybe I'm way off. They are enchanted as wonderous items. There are no rules for adding the armor-specific enhancements to wonderous items, so you and your DM will have to use the formulas for replicating those effects and adjust accordingly.
Thomarus 05-18-04, 04:15 PM	Not sure I follow you Tarkin. Lemme tell you what I was thinking. Bracers AC 8 (Which is I think the max) then a +5 enhancement bonus on top of that. Krelios, that's what I figured. One DM has ruled that they're armor so they don't count against touch attacks so he'd probably allow it. Thanks to you both.
Tsuul 05-18-04, 04:17 PM	Don't confuse the lad. Bracers of Armor +2 is not a culmination of Bracers of Armor +1 and a +1 armor enhancement bonus. I caution any DM from allowing this because it makes bracers of armor much cheaper to get. "I'll just get Bracers of Armor +3 and add a +1 enhancement bonus to it for the wonderful price of 10,000 instead of paying 16,000 for a +4 armor adjustment."
Scandal 05-18-04, 04:23 PM	Arms and Equipment guide have the rules for adding enchantment bonuses to Bracers of armor IIRC.. -Scan
Beamup 05-18-04, 04:34 PM	Originally posted by Thomarus Bracers AC 8 (Which is I think the max) then a +5 enhancement bonus on top of that. Sure, you can basically do this - Bracers that grant +13 to AC. For 169,000 if you want it to all be an armor bonus. Or for 178,000 if you want it to be +8 armor and +5 deflection. Or for 190,500 if you want it to be +8 armor and +5 something else.
SpellMaster 05-18-04, 04:36 PM	Just confirming that the Arms and Equipment Guide does indeed have rules for enhancing bracers of armour with special armour abilities.
Thomarus 05-18-04, 05:07 PM	Yeah, I figured the cost would be staggering since it would follow the same rules as the belt that gives plus to strength and con (IE times 2 cost). Thanks again all for the replies and especially about the info of it being in the arms and equipment.
Sisyfos 05-18-04, 06:13 PM	A&E indeed has that information. Be careful implementing it though. Bracers of armor can very easily become better than any other armor, which changes the game balance and campaign characteristics considerably. The balancing factor between heavy armor, light armor and bracers has so far been the max dex limit that armors give. Bracers of armor do not have a max dex limit so allowing enchanting bracers gives campaigns an armor with base armor 8 + enchantment bonus 5 =13 and max dex unlimited. This is a lot better than the best heavy armors so suddenly all the tough guys will be walking around naked and heavy armor proficiency becomes pretty worthless at high levels. In the end it is just all about what kind of games you like. Sisyfos
SpellMaster 05-18-04, 08:30 PM	Ah, there you are wrong my friend. Bracers of armour cannot get a +5 enhancement bonus. The max they can go up to is +8 armour, non-epic that is. The other +5 is for enhancements only. You cannot have bracers of armour +13, for example, in a non-epic game. You could have Bracers of Armour +8 of Heavy Fortification, though.
UZI 05-18-04, 10:48 PM	An enhancement bonus enhances another bonus. An enhancement bonus to armor is applied to armor. A suit of +1 Studded Leather Armor does not supply a +3 armor bonus and a +1 armor enhancement bonus. It supplies a +4 armor bonus, because its base armor bonus has been enhanced by +1. Enhancement bonuses to armor can only be placed on a set of masterwork armor. The bracers do not qualify for this condition.
Servant 05-18-04, 10:53 PM	Originally posted by Thomarus Not sure I follow you Tarkin. Lemme tell you what I was thinking. Bracers AC 8 (Which is I think the max) then a +5 enhancement bonus on top of that. You're being confused by the old AD&D notation for bracers, when you could get "Bracers AC 2" as an item and they decreased your AC by 8, which was a good thing back then. But in D&D 3.x, you just get "+n Bracers of Armor" which give a +n armor bonus to AC, where n normally ranges from 1 to 8.
tarkin 05-19-04, 11:38 AM	The simplest answer is "no". More specifically, +8 is the maximum non-epic AC you can get from Bracers, regardless of what cheasy explanation you try and come up with about how they did it. Enhacment would be the ultimate cheese but other types of modifers would still count as cheesy. My earlier explanation was an attempt to show him why such a thing would be cheesy. Bracers AC 2 is identical to Bracers AC 1 with a +1 enhancment. There is NO difference between the two. As such trying to claim that Bracers 8 with a +1 enhancmeent is legal is cheesy because they are the exact same thing as Bracers 9, which we previously realized was illegal.