bracers of true strike [Archive] - Wizards Community

bracers of true strike [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lycanthrope King
05-12-04, 06:02 PM I am not sure I have the math right, but first, I have it costing 6000 gp, (1 (spell level) X 3 (caster level (you can set caster level correct?))X2000 (continous).
When worn, the wearer knows how to attack more efficiently, guided by other forces.

I would modify the cost based on the duration, but considering that the duration depends on the next attack, it could be used in a year, so that part is nullified.

Also, Boots of Overland Flight
Twice a day, the wearer can decide to activate the boots, though it is not necessary to use the effect, as the spell Overlight Flight for a length of 6 hours a charge.

Cost: 24000 ( Spell level 5 x Caster level 6 x 2000)/2.5

I am using boots because flight deals with movement.
Beamup
05-12-04, 06:07 PM Originally posted by Lycanthrope King
I am not sure I have the math right, but first, I have it costing 6000 gp, (1 (spell level) X 3 (caster level (you can set caster level correct?))X2000 (continous).
When worn, the wearer knows how to attack more efficiently, guided by other forces.

One of the prototypical examples of cost-guideline failure. 600,000 would be closer to appropriate.

The boots seem OK.
Lycanthrope King
05-12-04, 06:13 PM how do you get 600,000?
Beamup
05-12-04, 06:15 PM That would be by the highly-scientific method of "pulling it from my nether orifice." To be more precise, the price P can be expressed as

P >= 10*x

where x is the total available wealth of the character wishing to buy or make such an item.

Or, if you want me to be more explicit, it is a fundamentally broken item that should never be allowed in any campaign at any price.
smrtgmp
05-12-04, 06:18 PM how do you get 600,000?
because 6000 gp for an item that provides a constant +20 to hit and nulifies concealment is far too powerful.
Tony Vargas
05-12-04, 06:33 PM Effectively, what you probably want is a set of bracers that give you an insight bonus to any attack. Now, there isn't an Insight Bonus to Attack in the magic item creation guidelines, so, it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to just say 'no you can't do it.'

I'd be willing to guestimate, though, that it would be comparable to the other two insight bonuses given (AC 'other' & Save 'other') - at around 2000gp x bonus-squared.

For a +20, that'd by 800,000gp - so the 600k claim wasn't far off.

I don't know how you'd price the ignoring concealment part.

What pushes the item into using the bonus-squared calculations, though, is the fact that it's continuous-unlimitted-use-activated.

If it's a wand, for instance, the cost would be the same as any other 1st-level wand.

By the same token, it could be a Command Word-activated Wonderous Item, which, for a 1st level spell, at CL 1, would be 1800gp. It'd take a standard action to activate, and work just like the spell.
chonjurer
05-12-04, 06:46 PM Originally posted by Lycanthrope King
I have it costing 6000 gp, (1 (spell level) X 3 (caster level (you can set caster level correct?))X2000 (continous).

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~ammaster/images/stick_twak.gif
Kyuketsukiouji
05-12-04, 07:05 PM Let's see.

I'm the DM. You want an item that gives +20 to hit. And that stacks with other bonuses (since it's insight).

Well, it's like getting +40 to strength, but without the damage and carrying capacity boost.

so it's +40, divided by 3.

Or +13 (or so).

Now, where's that Epic Handbook. Here we go:

"Grants an enhancement bonus to an ability score greater than +6. "

There we are. Now just lie still while I beat you up with the book, and then we'll talk about that x10 price multiplyer for "exceeding the normal limit".
TheMightyMcClaw
05-12-04, 07:30 PM My my, aren't we all so very wrathful today....

But yes, for magic items that grant continuous spell effects wherein the spell grants a numerical bonus, you price it for the bonus, not the spell.

It's in the Bible somewhere.
smrtgmp
05-12-04, 07:33 PM Originally posted by TheMightyMcClaw
It's in the Bible somewhere.
Somewhere near the back, right?
glenw77
05-12-04, 08:27 PM If you are desperate to come up with this true strike item, then you should take note of the Bow of True strike from Sword and Fist.

The bow acts as a wand of true strike with infinite charges IN ALL WAYS (cannot use it unless the spell is on your spell list, uses a standard action as a spell trigger device, etc...) It is only usable with the bow and it costs 4000gp.

This in and of itself is not a totally unbalanced item, which I discussed in the Forgotten Realms forum.

Getting rid of the its inherent drawbacks would be problematic with maintaining game balance though
J_Riley
05-12-04, 09:21 PM Originally posted by Lycanthrope King
Also, Boots of Overland Flight
Twice a day, the wearer can decide to activate the boots, though it is not necessary to use the effect, as the spell Overlight Flight for a length of 6 hours a charge.

Cost: 24000 ( Spell level 5 x Caster level 6 x 2000)/2.5

I am using boots because flight deals with movement.

Well, you got the spell level right....but caster level for 5th level spells is 9th, not 6th...

so 36,000

I love these obviously archer items :D

mmmmm, bow of true strike, I wish we could use S&F
Edymnion
05-12-04, 09:25 PM Originally posted by chonjurer
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~ammaster/images/stick_twak.gif chonjurer!
I haven't seen you around in ages, glad to see you're still here.
UZI
05-12-04, 09:55 PM I can't remember...are we early for a "True Strike" item thread this month? I thought we were due for a ring of improved invisibility?
Zherog
05-12-04, 10:10 PM Originally posted by chonjurer
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~ammaster/images/stick_twak.gif

I haven't seen that in a long time. :)
DemonMonkeyBoy
05-13-04, 05:17 AM :b: Tony was closest on price, but the DMG suggest BSQx2500 for insight bonuses. So the price is 1,000,000gp or depending on how you use the Epic rules 10,000,000pg.

Now most people always seem to go for the +20, but as a suggestion maybe start a little smaller. Here is a item I put in my game.

The Gods eye Circlet
This circlet is a thin braid of gold wire coming to gather at the front with small gems to form what looks like an eye. While worn the this magic item gives you a small amount of insight to help guide your hand in battle.
You gain a +2 insight bonus to attack rolls and a +5% bonus to your roll to overcome concealment.
Cost10,000
The Ranger that as this item has put it to good use.
TrueExodite
05-13-04, 07:08 AM What's wrong with you people?

There seems to be a lot of ass-umptions going on here, I see nothing in the original post that suggests he meant to create a continous-use True Strike item.

Rather the contrary actually, given the duration comment.

A normal command word activated, read standard action, True Strike item don't have to be expensive at all since it's hardly overpowered.

Also, it should be bonus squared times 2500 for an 'other' type bonus.

Edit: Which DMB already said, though I find off-font posts hard to read. Sorry about that.
Seeker95
05-13-04, 08:40 AM :rofl:
Thelon Fairblade
05-13-04, 09:26 AM True Strike all the time = not allowed by sane GM

True Strike, 3/day, command word activated = totally legal. Takes a standard action to activate, so you can't attack until the next round. Great for the one shot that has to hit, but otherwise not generally game-breaking. But even then, not the mere 1200 or so it would "formula cost". Probably more like 2400.
Lycanthrope King
05-13-04, 09:59 AM ask a simple question... get beat up with Rafiki's stick.

But I was just wondering if it was legal, and due to the bumps on my head, I know better.
Aracor
05-13-04, 10:08 AM It's simple. Technically speaking, true strike's duration is 1 round (until discharged).

So it's like a short-range moment of prescience. The thing is, the duration, even if you set it to permanent, is MEANINGLESS. Because the duration is always until discharged.

Wow, what a waste. Spending 6000 gold pieces on an item that will give you a +20 to one attack roll and ignore concealment, followed immediately by being an unenchanted item again. Heh. Heh. Heh.

~Aracor
Gold Katana
05-13-04, 10:32 AM get beat up with Rafiki's stick You're just lucky we weren't using Bracers of True Strike! :D
The_Ditto
05-13-04, 10:33 AM Originally posted by chonjurer
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~ammaster/images/stick_twak.gif

:heehee
Krelios
05-13-04, 10:39 AM There seems to be a lot of ass-umptions going on here, I see nothing in the original post that suggests he meant to create a continous-use True Strike item. May I suggest you actually read his post?
I am not sure I have the math right, but first, I have it costing 6000 gp, (1 (spell level) X 3 (caster level (you can set caster level correct?))X2000 (continous). This item is stupid. No one in their right mind would allow it. As has been suggested, a limited use item is fine (and has been done before) since it costs a standard action to buff one attack that way--the item the original poster described is as inappropriate as a ring of continuous cure light wounds...
EvilVegan
05-13-04, 12:22 PM 1x1x1800 = base price, but you need to determine how many times per day it can be used and it would have to be a standard action/command word item. If you want it to unlimited use per day I'd make it cost at least 8000 gp (x4 for 1 round effect), but it would still need a command word and a standard action. If you go with body slot affinity and they weren't gauntlets (destructive) or bracers (combat) then they'd be 16000.

It doesn't have a duration to make continuous so it can't be a continuous item.
Lycanthrope King
05-13-04, 03:12 PM yes I understand that now. I am recovery from the blow of the AP tests, so I apologize for my stupidity.
smrtgmp
05-13-04, 04:32 PM No apology needed. If you havent read the myriad of similar threads that came before this one you would have no idea of the stigma attached to such items.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lycanthrope King 05-12-04, 06:02 PM	I am not sure I have the math right, but first, I have it costing 6000 gp, (1 (spell level) X 3 (caster level (you can set caster level correct?))X2000 (continous). When worn, the wearer knows how to attack more efficiently, guided by other forces. I would modify the cost based on the duration, but considering that the duration depends on the next attack, it could be used in a year, so that part is nullified. Also, Boots of Overland Flight Twice a day, the wearer can decide to activate the boots, though it is not necessary to use the effect, as the spell Overlight Flight for a length of 6 hours a charge. Cost: 24000 ( Spell level 5 x Caster level 6 x 2000)/2.5 I am using boots because flight deals with movement.
Beamup 05-12-04, 06:07 PM	Originally posted by Lycanthrope King I am not sure I have the math right, but first, I have it costing 6000 gp, (1 (spell level) X 3 (caster level (you can set caster level correct?))X2000 (continous). When worn, the wearer knows how to attack more efficiently, guided by other forces. One of the prototypical examples of cost-guideline failure. 600,000 would be closer to appropriate. The boots seem OK.
Lycanthrope King 05-12-04, 06:13 PM	how do you get 600,000?
Beamup 05-12-04, 06:15 PM	That would be by the highly-scientific method of "pulling it from my nether orifice." To be more precise, the price P can be expressed as P >= 10*x where x is the total available wealth of the character wishing to buy or make such an item. Or, if you want me to be more explicit, it is a fundamentally broken item that should never be allowed in any campaign at any price.
smrtgmp 05-12-04, 06:18 PM	how do you get 600,000? because 6000 gp for an item that provides a constant +20 to hit and nulifies concealment is far too powerful.
Tony Vargas 05-12-04, 06:33 PM	Effectively, what you probably want is a set of bracers that give you an insight bonus to any attack. Now, there isn't an Insight Bonus to Attack in the magic item creation guidelines, so, it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to just say 'no you can't do it.' I'd be willing to guestimate, though, that it would be comparable to the other two insight bonuses given (AC 'other' & Save 'other') - at around 2000gp x bonus-squared. For a +20, that'd by 800,000gp - so the 600k claim wasn't far off. I don't know how you'd price the ignoring concealment part. What pushes the item into using the bonus-squared calculations, though, is the fact that it's continuous-unlimitted-use-activated. If it's a wand, for instance, the cost would be the same as any other 1st-level wand. By the same token, it could be a Command Word-activated Wonderous Item, which, for a 1st level spell, at CL 1, would be 1800gp. It'd take a standard action to activate, and work just like the spell.
chonjurer 05-12-04, 06:46 PM	Originally posted by Lycanthrope King I have it costing 6000 gp, (1 (spell level) X 3 (caster level (you can set caster level correct?))X2000 (continous). http://www.ucalgary.ca/~ammaster/images/stick_twak.gif
Kyuketsukiouji 05-12-04, 07:05 PM	Let's see. I'm the DM. You want an item that gives +20 to hit. And that stacks with other bonuses (since it's insight). Well, it's like getting +40 to strength, but without the damage and carrying capacity boost. so it's +40, divided by 3. Or +13 (or so). Now, where's that Epic Handbook. Here we go: "Grants an enhancement bonus to an ability score greater than +6. " There we are. Now just lie still while I beat you up with the book, and then we'll talk about that x10 price multiplyer for "exceeding the normal limit".
TheMightyMcClaw 05-12-04, 07:30 PM	My my, aren't we all so very wrathful today.... But yes, for magic items that grant continuous spell effects wherein the spell grants a numerical bonus, you price it for the bonus, not the spell. It's in the Bible somewhere.
smrtgmp 05-12-04, 07:33 PM	Originally posted by TheMightyMcClaw It's in the Bible somewhere. Somewhere near the back, right?
glenw77 05-12-04, 08:27 PM	If you are desperate to come up with this true strike item, then you should take note of the Bow of True strike from Sword and Fist. The bow acts as a wand of true strike with infinite charges IN ALL WAYS (cannot use it unless the spell is on your spell list, uses a standard action as a spell trigger device, etc...) It is only usable with the bow and it costs 4000gp. This in and of itself is not a totally unbalanced item, which I discussed in the Forgotten Realms forum. Getting rid of the its inherent drawbacks would be problematic with maintaining game balance though
J_Riley 05-12-04, 09:21 PM	Originally posted by Lycanthrope King Also, Boots of Overland Flight Twice a day, the wearer can decide to activate the boots, though it is not necessary to use the effect, as the spell Overlight Flight for a length of 6 hours a charge. Cost: 24000 ( Spell level 5 x Caster level 6 x 2000)/2.5 I am using boots because flight deals with movement. Well, you got the spell level right....but caster level for 5th level spells is 9th, not 6th... so 36,000 I love these obviously archer items :D mmmmm, bow of true strike, I wish we could use S&F
Edymnion 05-12-04, 09:25 PM	Originally posted by chonjurer http://www.ucalgary.ca/~ammaster/images/stick_twak.gif chonjurer! I haven't seen you around in ages, glad to see you're still here.
UZI 05-12-04, 09:55 PM	I can't remember...are we early for a "True Strike" item thread this month? I thought we were due for a ring of improved invisibility?
Zherog 05-12-04, 10:10 PM	Originally posted by chonjurer http://www.ucalgary.ca/~ammaster/images/stick_twak.gif I haven't seen that in a long time. :)
DemonMonkeyBoy 05-13-04, 05:17 AM	:b: Tony was closest on price, but the DMG suggest BSQx2500 for insight bonuses. So the price is 1,000,000gp or depending on how you use the Epic rules 10,000,000pg. Now most people always seem to go for the +20, but as a suggestion maybe start a little smaller. Here is a item I put in my game. The Gods eye Circlet This circlet is a thin braid of gold wire coming to gather at the front with small gems to form what looks like an eye. While worn the this magic item gives you a small amount of insight to help guide your hand in battle. You gain a +2 insight bonus to attack rolls and a +5% bonus to your roll to overcome concealment. Cost10,000 The Ranger that as this item has put it to good use.
TrueExodite 05-13-04, 07:08 AM	What's wrong with you people? There seems to be a lot of ass-umptions going on here, I see nothing in the original post that suggests he meant to create a continous-use True Strike item. Rather the contrary actually, given the duration comment. A normal command word activated, read standard action, True Strike item don't have to be expensive at all since it's hardly overpowered. Also, it should be bonus squared times 2500 for an 'other' type bonus. Edit: Which DMB already said, though I find off-font posts hard to read. Sorry about that.
Seeker95 05-13-04, 08:40 AM	:rofl:
Thelon Fairblade 05-13-04, 09:26 AM	True Strike all the time = not allowed by sane GM True Strike, 3/day, command word activated = totally legal. Takes a standard action to activate, so you can't attack until the next round. Great for the one shot that has to hit, but otherwise not generally game-breaking. But even then, not the mere 1200 or so it would "formula cost". Probably more like 2400.
Lycanthrope King 05-13-04, 09:59 AM	ask a simple question... get beat up with Rafiki's stick. But I was just wondering if it was legal, and due to the bumps on my head, I know better.
Aracor 05-13-04, 10:08 AM	It's simple. Technically speaking, true strike's duration is 1 round (until discharged). So it's like a short-range moment of prescience. The thing is, the duration, even if you set it to permanent, is MEANINGLESS. Because the duration is always until discharged. Wow, what a waste. Spending 6000 gold pieces on an item that will give you a +20 to one attack roll and ignore concealment, followed immediately by being an unenchanted item again. Heh. Heh. Heh. ~Aracor
Gold Katana 05-13-04, 10:32 AM	get beat up with Rafiki's stick You're just lucky we weren't using Bracers of True Strike! :D
The_Ditto 05-13-04, 10:33 AM	Originally posted by chonjurer http://www.ucalgary.ca/~ammaster/images/stick_twak.gif :heehee
Krelios 05-13-04, 10:39 AM	There seems to be a lot of ass-umptions going on here, I see nothing in the original post that suggests he meant to create a continous-use True Strike item. May I suggest you actually read his post? I am not sure I have the math right, but first, I have it costing 6000 gp, (1 (spell level) X 3 (caster level (you can set caster level correct?))X2000 (continous). This item is stupid. No one in their right mind would allow it. As has been suggested, a limited use item is fine (and has been done before) since it costs a standard action to buff one attack that way--the item the original poster described is as inappropriate as a ring of continuous cure light wounds...
EvilVegan 05-13-04, 12:22 PM	1x1x1800 = base price, but you need to determine how many times per day it can be used and it would have to be a standard action/command word item. If you want it to unlimited use per day I'd make it cost at least 8000 gp (x4 for 1 round effect), but it would still need a command word and a standard action. If you go with body slot affinity and they weren't gauntlets (destructive) or bracers (combat) then they'd be 16000. It doesn't have a duration to make continuous so it can't be a continuous item.
Lycanthrope King 05-13-04, 03:12 PM	yes I understand that now. I am recovery from the blow of the AP tests, so I apologize for my stupidity.
smrtgmp 05-13-04, 04:32 PM	No apology needed. If you havent read the myriad of similar threads that came before this one you would have no idea of the stigma attached to such items.