Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CelineSSauve 01-04-08, 04:29 PM	Hey folks. I need to figure out how Alter Self would effect a Lizardfolk who had begun the Dragon Disciple PrC. I figure he's lose the +2 Str and +2 Con, but keep the -2 Cha (spell effects body but not mind). And I know he'd lose his +5 natural armor as well as his natural Lizardfolk attacks. What I'm wondering is: If he'd like to become a normal looking person without claws and such, would he also miss out on the bonuses to his physical abilities from the PrC? (A list can be found here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/dragonDisciple.htm) These include ability bonuses, a (stronger) bite and claw attacks, a bonus to natural armor and changes in appearance to reflect them. *skims post...* I hope my question was clear enough. For example. Lizardfolk with 2 levels in the PrC gains +1 to natural armor, +2 Str, a 1d6 bite and 2 1d4 claw attacks. Would he keep those bonuses when he changes into a Human, or would those go away as well? (Assuming he wants to look like a normal human, no scales, no claws.) ((Is looking like a regular person even possible if you've taken that PrC?)) Another question is if being a Humanoid (Reptilian) means that he couldn't become a Human (or any other humanoid which is not of the sub-group Reptilian) at all.
CelineSSauve 01-06-08, 09:31 AM	Is it a matter of my not phrasing my question properly, or am not not the only one who's confused by the matter? (All the better reason to try and sort it out IMHO.) This is my Lizarkfolk's stats over the levels: Point Buy (32 points) Str: 14 (6pts)+2 =16+2(PrC2)=18 Dex: 14 (6pts) =14 Con:14(6pts)+2 =16 Int:12(4pts)-2 =10 Wis:10(2pts) =10 Cha:15(8pts) =15+1(Lv4) =16 So I know that he'll have Int 10, Wis 10 and Cha 16 no matter what form he takes, but will his Str be 16 (counting that bonus from the PrC) or 14 (with neither racial not PrC bonus) if he were to transform in to a Human?
Rebel7284 01-07-08, 02:14 AM	he loses the natural attacks and natural armor and movement modes of the old form. The stats don't change however, he retains the +2 str etc.
CelineSSauve 01-07-08, 08:50 AM	The stats don't change however, he retains the +2 str etc. He keeps the same strenght even though his body changes? Odd... Must be thinking of the Giant's alternate Polymorph rules. Thanks for clearing that up!
Captain_Kobold 01-07-08, 12:23 PM	By RAW: You retain all of your ability scores, whether from Class-level or natural, so you would have the same scores under the effects of the Alter self spell. You would lose the Lizardman natural armour bonus, but retain the Dragon Disciple increase. Likewise, you would keep the DD bite and claw attacks. You would also retain a dragonish aspect to you, as if the form you had changed into had taken levels in the DD class. These are all due to the DD changes being a function of class levels, which are retained in the new form. No mention is made of Subtype, so you could change into a Human, or any other (Humanoid) creature even if your original form has the Reptilian subtype. Once you hit level 10 in the DD prestige class, however, your type changes to Dragon, so you cannot alter self into a human any longer. DM call: Although by RAW, you retain the Dragon Dsiciple Natural armour and weapons, and thus dragonlike apparance when you use Alter self, it would not be an unreasonable houserule to allow you to change into a normal looking human. (Or whatever). In this case, however, I would rule that you would lose the natural armour and weapons in this form. If your DM does not houserule the normal appearance in, try looking at Disguise Self spell, or Hat of Disguise.