Breathing under water?! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Breathing under water?! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Biolyticclod
09-19-07, 01:25 PM In game the other night a buddy of mine used the spell Endure Elements to breathe underwater as though that would be "enduring" the element of water as a character could stand in fire without being burned... :uh-huh:

I didn't think this could be used this way but I was open to it as he was my party member and the DM allowed it...

But as it was an unheard of use of this spell to me I thought I'd share and get some feedback. :banghead:

Could you use Endure Elements to breathe water?
My opinion would have to be no. Unless of course if your character was buried alive in dirt, sand, snow, etc.. and it would work too... But I'm just having a hard time taking it that way. :noway:

Why the spell Water-Breathing? Just for the longer duration?:confused:
wizardguy2003
09-19-07, 01:31 PM Endure elements protects you, and your equipment, from temperature extremes, it does not adapt you to an element, such as water. Elements in this case refers to weather.
Vharuck
09-19-07, 01:39 PM Did you DM or friend even bother to read the spell description?

A creature protected by endure elements suffers no harm from being in a hot or cold environment. It can exist comfortably in conditions between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without having to make Fortitude saves). The creature’s equipment is likewise protected.

Endure elements doesn’t provide any protection from fire or cold damage, nor does it protect against other environmental hazards such as smoke, lack of air, and so forth.

The first paragraph states exactly the effects of the spell. It protects you from heat and cold. I would say being submerged in water with no gills is considered an environmental hazard, and therefore not protected from by the spell.
Seeker95
09-19-07, 02:46 PM Could you use Endure Elements to breathe water?No.
Why the spell Water-Breathing?So you can actually breathe underwater.
tarkin
09-19-07, 02:52 PM Also, you be surprised to find out that:

Magic Missile does not take make your arrows +1
Burning Hands does no damage to the caster
Feather Fall can be cast on people, not just feathers.
Kouk
09-19-07, 07:17 PM Also, you be surprised to find out that:

Magic Missile does not take make your arrows +1
Burning Hands does no damage to the caster
Feather Fall can be cast on people, not just feathers.

Really? Could you cite the rules to back those absurd statements up? :P
Xan_Kriegor
09-19-07, 10:52 PM A creature protected by endure elements suffers no harm from being in a hot or cold environment. It can exist comfortably in conditions between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without having to make Fortitude saves). The creature’s equipment is likewise protected.

Endure elements doesn’t provide any protection from fire or cold damage, nor does it protect against other environmental hazards such as smoke, lack of air, and so forth.

I emphasized what I thought was necessary.
Seeker95
09-20-07, 08:22 AM I emphasized what I thought was necessary.Technically, there is not a lack of air in water. Rather, there is a lack of physiognomy within a land-walker to extract the air from the water. :P
Biolyticclod
09-20-07, 02:05 PM First off the question was a simple one. That being said I never said that I though you could breathe underwater using the Endure elements spell.

Secondly the remark about the Water-breathing spell was sarcasm. :pbbbtt:

In any case I suppose I could have just looked it up in the book or on the SRD. Although it was a pretty creative way to try to use the spell as a low level character. But once more my initial thought was correct.:bravo:

Thanks everyone...
Seeker95
09-20-07, 03:20 PM First off the question was a simple one.:duel: It is the simple questions that leave the most room for fun. Answer, then jab. :D

That being said I never said that I though you could breathe underwater using the Endure elements spell.But your player did. So if you felt offended or put off by any of the answers, you did so on behalf of the player who was somehow under this delusion.

Secondly the remark about the Water-breathing spell was sarcasm. :pbbbtt: Sarcasm rarely translates well into text. The rest of the posts in this thread are evidence of this.

In any case I suppose I could have just looked it up in the book or on the SRD.Don't feel bad. So could your friend.

Although it was a pretty creative way to try to use the spell as a low level character.The line between creative and cheating is blurred by those seeking to do so, but clear to most others. :devil:

But once more my initial thought was correct.:bravo::tiphat: :pint:

Thanks everyone...On behalf of all, you are welcome. :angel:
Xan_Kriegor
09-21-07, 12:29 AM Technically, there is not a lack of air in water. Rather, there is a lack of physiognomy within a land-walker to extract the air from the water. :P

My brother figured out in physics (the teacher had the class do it or something like that) that even if you could breathe the air in the water, there still just isn't enough oxygen around your body to be breathed in. So, even if you had a mask that had 'physiognomy' in it (wtf is that!?:gah::P) you still couldn't breathe underwater.
KitsuneSoup
09-21-07, 03:13 AM My brother figured out in physics (the teacher had the class do it or something like that) that even if you could breathe the air in the water, there still just isn't enough oxygen around your body to be breathed in. So, even if you had a mask that had 'physiognomy' in it (wtf is that!?:gah::P) you still couldn't breathe underwater.

Err...

Umm...

What he meant, was, while there is oxygen in water, the human body is not intended as a vehicle to removing the air from the water, so regardless of how much there is, you're not breathing it. Which is physiology, really, not physiognomy, but even still, a mask of physiognomy would be kinda neat.

There is enough oxygen in water to breathe... if you're designed for it.

^^

KitsuneSoup
ArcTan
09-21-07, 04:16 AM Technically, there is not a lack of air in water. Rather, there is a lack of physiognomy within a land-walker to extract the air from the water. :P

Well, there is also *less* air in water than there is in air.

Kind of by definition.
ArcTan
09-21-07, 04:24 AM My brother figured out in physics (the teacher had the class do it or something like that) that even if you could breathe the air in the water, there still just isn't enough oxygen around your body to be breathed in. So, even if you had a mask that had 'physiognomy' in it (wtf is that!?:gah::P) you still couldn't breathe underwater.

"Physiognomy" is... the wrong word. He meant "physiology", which just means the way your body is built. We don't have the right physiology for water breathing. Our bodies aren't built to breathe in water, so we can't.

But if we *did* have the right physiology, our bodies *were* built to breathe in water, then we could. Obviously. That's a tautology (another fun word to look up).

By the way, it's not that there isn't enough air around your body. It's that you can't take in enough air at once *through your mouth and nose*. Fish, which breathe in water, and some of which can get to be as big as a human (sharks, for example) therefore need gills, which let them pass a lot more water through their bodies at once than we can pass air through our lungs.

Presumably any mechanism to let humans breathe underwater would have to remedy this, probably by making our lungs far more efficient at extracting oxygen from their contents than they currently are.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Biolyticclod 09-19-07, 01:25 PM	In game the other night a buddy of mine used the spell Endure Elements to breathe underwater as though that would be "enduring" the element of water as a character could stand in fire without being burned... :uh-huh: I didn't think this could be used this way but I was open to it as he was my party member and the DM allowed it... But as it was an unheard of use of this spell to me I thought I'd share and get some feedback. :banghead: Could you use Endure Elements to breathe water? My opinion would have to be no. Unless of course if your character was buried alive in dirt, sand, snow, etc.. and it would work too... But I'm just having a hard time taking it that way. :noway: Why the spell Water-Breathing? Just for the longer duration?:confused:
wizardguy2003 09-19-07, 01:31 PM	Endure elements protects you, and your equipment, from temperature extremes, it does not adapt you to an element, such as water. Elements in this case refers to weather.
Vharuck 09-19-07, 01:39 PM	Did you DM or friend even bother to read the spell description? A creature protected by endure elements suffers no harm from being in a hot or cold environment. It can exist comfortably in conditions between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without having to make Fortitude saves). The creature’s equipment is likewise protected. Endure elements doesn’t provide any protection from fire or cold damage, nor does it protect against other environmental hazards such as smoke, lack of air, and so forth. The first paragraph states exactly the effects of the spell. It protects you from heat and cold. I would say being submerged in water with no gills is considered an environmental hazard, and therefore not protected from by the spell.
Seeker95 09-19-07, 02:46 PM	Could you use Endure Elements to breathe water?No. Why the spell Water-Breathing?So you can actually breathe underwater.
tarkin 09-19-07, 02:52 PM	Also, you be surprised to find out that: Magic Missile does not take make your arrows +1 Burning Hands does no damage to the caster Feather Fall can be cast on people, not just feathers.
Kouk 09-19-07, 07:17 PM	Also, you be surprised to find out that: Magic Missile does not take make your arrows +1 Burning Hands does no damage to the caster Feather Fall can be cast on people, not just feathers. Really? Could you cite the rules to back those absurd statements up? :P
Xan_Kriegor 09-19-07, 10:52 PM	A creature protected by endure elements suffers no harm from being in a hot or cold environment. It can exist comfortably in conditions between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without having to make Fortitude saves). The creature’s equipment is likewise protected. Endure elements doesn’t provide any protection from fire or cold damage, nor does it protect against other environmental hazards such as smoke, lack of air, and so forth. I emphasized what I thought was necessary.
Seeker95 09-20-07, 08:22 AM	I emphasized what I thought was necessary.Technically, there is not a lack of air in water. Rather, there is a lack of physiognomy within a land-walker to extract the air from the water. :P
Biolyticclod 09-20-07, 02:05 PM	First off the question was a simple one. That being said I never said that I though you could breathe underwater using the Endure elements spell. Secondly the remark about the Water-breathing spell was sarcasm. :pbbbtt: In any case I suppose I could have just looked it up in the book or on the SRD. Although it was a pretty creative way to try to use the spell as a low level character. But once more my initial thought was correct.:bravo: Thanks everyone...
Seeker95 09-20-07, 03:20 PM	First off the question was a simple one.:duel: It is the simple questions that leave the most room for fun. Answer, then jab. :D That being said I never said that I though you could breathe underwater using the Endure elements spell.But your player did. So if you felt offended or put off by any of the answers, you did so on behalf of the player who was somehow under this delusion. Secondly the remark about the Water-breathing spell was sarcasm. :pbbbtt: Sarcasm rarely translates well into text. The rest of the posts in this thread are evidence of this. In any case I suppose I could have just looked it up in the book or on the SRD.Don't feel bad. So could your friend. Although it was a pretty creative way to try to use the spell as a low level character.The line between creative and cheating is blurred by those seeking to do so, but clear to most others. :devil: But once more my initial thought was correct.:bravo::tiphat: :pint: Thanks everyone...On behalf of all, you are welcome. :angel:
Xan_Kriegor 09-21-07, 12:29 AM	Technically, there is not a lack of air in water. Rather, there is a lack of physiognomy within a land-walker to extract the air from the water. :P My brother figured out in physics (the teacher had the class do it or something like that) that even if you could breathe the air in the water, there still just isn't enough oxygen around your body to be breathed in. So, even if you had a mask that had 'physiognomy' in it (wtf is that!?:gah::P) you still couldn't breathe underwater.
KitsuneSoup 09-21-07, 03:13 AM	My brother figured out in physics (the teacher had the class do it or something like that) that even if you could breathe the air in the water, there still just isn't enough oxygen around your body to be breathed in. So, even if you had a mask that had 'physiognomy' in it (wtf is that!?:gah::P) you still couldn't breathe underwater. Err... Umm... What he meant, was, while there is oxygen in water, the human body is not intended as a vehicle to removing the air from the water, so regardless of how much there is, you're not breathing it. Which is physiology, really, not physiognomy, but even still, a mask of physiognomy would be kinda neat. There is enough oxygen in water to breathe... if you're designed for it. ^^ KitsuneSoup
ArcTan 09-21-07, 04:16 AM	Technically, there is not a lack of air in water. Rather, there is a lack of physiognomy within a land-walker to extract the air from the water. :P Well, there is also less air in water than there is in air. Kind of by definition.
ArcTan 09-21-07, 04:24 AM	My brother figured out in physics (the teacher had the class do it or something like that) that even if you could breathe the air in the water, there still just isn't enough oxygen around your body to be breathed in. So, even if you had a mask that had 'physiognomy' in it (wtf is that!?:gah::P) you still couldn't breathe underwater. "Physiognomy" is... the wrong word. He meant "physiology", which just means the way your body is built. We don't have the right physiology for water breathing. Our bodies aren't built to breathe in water, so we can't. But if we did have the right physiology, our bodies were built to breathe in water, then we could. Obviously. That's a tautology (another fun word to look up). By the way, it's not that there isn't enough air around your body. It's that you can't take in enough air at once through your mouth and nose. Fish, which breathe in water, and some of which can get to be as big as a human (sharks, for example) therefore need gills, which let them pass a lot more water through their bodies at once than we can pass air through our lungs. Presumably any mechanism to let humans breathe underwater would have to remedy this, probably by making our lungs far more efficient at extracting oxygen from their contents than they currently are.