Brew potion and harmful spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Brew potion and harmful spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Werwoelfin
03-08-06, 09:49 AM Is it possible to make a potion with a harmful effect (Ray of enfeeblement, contagion etc.) with the Brew Potion feat, thereby creating a kind of poison?
Seeker95
03-08-06, 01:31 PM DMG page 286:
CREATING POTIONS
"The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target"

So, while you could make such a potion, you probably would not want to.
Unless you're into cruel jokes.
Dyrwen
03-08-06, 03:28 PM Yep. I keep a vial of acid-splash around for those hard to reach places that need to be melted through. Some of the spells seem to work as a thrown weapon while in a vial, if you use the properly. For instance, I can't use a flaming sphere in a vial since it has to be controlled afterwards. Although I can use ray of enfeeblement and have it work so long as it splashes on the target I intended to hit. This little feat has all sorts of perks..but it tends to take some time to figure out when to use one.
Seeker95
03-08-06, 05:39 PM Ignore Derwood's comments if you are talking about potions.
What he has described would make perfectly suitable wondrous items.
Tyrasius
03-08-06, 06:51 PM Yep. I keep a vial of acid-splash around for those hard to reach places that need to be melted through. Some of the spells seem to work as a thrown weapon while in a vial, if you use the properly. For instance, I can't use a flaming sphere in a vial since it has to be controlled afterwards. Although I can use ray of enfeeblement and have it work so long as it splashes on the target I intended to hit. This little feat has all sorts of perks..but it tends to take some time to figure out when to use one.
I think you have to drink a potion for it to work. what your describing sounds alot like wondrous items, like Seeker95 said.
To answer your question, I'd say yes you can.
Another thing though and this I'm not sure of. Since alot of magic items don't do exactly what the spell does (just look at that crab thing from 3.0) it might be possible to make a potion of fireball which causes blazing hot heat to burn through the imbiber. Or a potion of magic missle causing damage to the drinker. However I'm probably incorrect about this part of my post
Arlechino
03-08-06, 06:59 PM From your original post, it's clear you intend to hurt the drinker of the potion. I think you could definitely do this. There are two caveats, however:

1) Potions are meant to be drunk in their pure form. It would be up to the DM to decide whether a shocking grasp potion would have any effect if someone ate soup that was laced with it. That said, there's no hard and fast rule about what's IN potions, so you might be able to make a "soup of electrocution" (Hmm.. electric eel soup?) and call it a potion. Although, potions have indefinite shelf lives, and I'd argue that such a soup would go bad as normal.

2. You can only make spells that target creatures into potions. So by the RAW, no potions of fireball and no potions of ray of enfeeblement (these have no target entry). Some generous DMs might allow the creation of potions from ray spells, though.
Kyuketsukiouji
03-08-06, 08:05 PM Simple answer:

Yes, as long as the spell you use meets the normal requirements for Brew Potion.

This does limit the number of usable offensive spells, since most are area spells (including rays), and because the potion's drinker is both the caster and the target of the spells. So, no potions of Charm Person, unless you need to be your own best friend. But you do have so interesting possibilities, like Slow.

And then there was that one time my party's rogue thought himself clever for stealing the evil cleric's stash of healing potions.

I leave it to the readers to imagine exactly when we realised that those were potions he'd prepared for his vampire master.

Inflict Serious Wounds potions, to be precise.
Wind of Darkness
03-08-06, 09:07 PM By RAW, it works. I always joke about making a potion of magic missile because it's so absurd.

I've yet to do it, though.
Realms of Chaos
03-08-06, 09:18 PM Hey, inflict serious wounds has a spell level too high to be made into potion form. Was it some kind of magic item, did the cleric have an ability that allowed it past that restriction, or were you just using rule 0.
Nom
03-08-06, 10:22 PM Hey, inflict serious wounds has a spell level too high to be made into potion form. Was it some kind of magic item, did the cleric have an ability that allowed it past that restriction, or were you just using rule 0.inflict serious wounds is Clr3. Potions can handle spells up to level 3. I don't see the problem?
Karrg
03-08-06, 10:28 PM Magc of Ebberon has spellvials, which are very close to what your talking about. Making them is a class feature of a PrC, however.
Karrg
Lemmose
03-09-06, 02:54 AM *grins evily* I am glad I am not the only one to think this idea up. Let me give you a list of ideas (oh, and the best spells to do this with are Clerical spells in my opinion):

Clerical
Bane
Cause Fear
Command (I would say you have to choose the command when making it)
Doom
Inflict Light/Moderate/Serious Wounds
Hold Person (perfect for assassinations)
Shield Other (then attack the 'other' so that the drinker takes damage too)
Bestow Curse
Blindness/Deafness
Contagion

Wizard
Daze
Touch of Fatigue
Sleep
Disguise Self
Cause Fear
Daze Monster
Tasha's Hideous Laughter
Touch of Idiocy
Blindness/Deafness
Scare
Alter Self (you like my 'pet' frog, formerly the caption of the guard)
Deep Slumber
Hold Person
Rage
Suggestion
Gaseous Form ("By the Gods, the king just evaporated!")
Slow
Purple Yin
03-09-06, 05:58 AM yeah, there's a whole PrC about throwing spellvials at enemies. its a potion savant, or something. cant remember its name.
The WarOverlord
03-09-06, 07:08 AM Is it possible to make a potion with a harmful effect (Ray of enfeeblement, contagion etc.) with the Brew Potion feat, thereby creating a kind of poison?

Alchemical versions of spells or Spells held by a suspension type spell in a vial of fluid that activate when the potion bottle hits something or breaks, maybe.

Imbue Spell Bomb
enchantment
level: wiz/sor 2, clr 3, bard 2
components: V, S,M = vial of fluid, Spell to be immediately cast on vial after
casting time: 1 minute
range: self
duration: permanent until vial broken or hits something or is consumed
target: as Gernade Throwing Weapon once enchanted

This spell will put any offensive or defensive spell of up to 3 level into vial of fluid, usually water which can either be consumed for spell effect to take effect or, in the case of offensive spells, be thrown and will trigger on impact of vial on target for targeted attacks or breakage/hitting floor or target for area effects

merely touching vial doesn't activate the Spell within thow crushing it in hands or against body will as will any physical or magic combat damage that breaks the vial while in holders possesion.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Werwoelfin 03-08-06, 09:49 AM	Is it possible to make a potion with a harmful effect (Ray of enfeeblement, contagion etc.) with the Brew Potion feat, thereby creating a kind of poison?
Seeker95 03-08-06, 01:31 PM	DMG page 286: CREATING POTIONS "The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target" So, while you could make such a potion, you probably would not want to. Unless you're into cruel jokes.
Dyrwen 03-08-06, 03:28 PM	Yep. I keep a vial of acid-splash around for those hard to reach places that need to be melted through. Some of the spells seem to work as a thrown weapon while in a vial, if you use the properly. For instance, I can't use a flaming sphere in a vial since it has to be controlled afterwards. Although I can use ray of enfeeblement and have it work so long as it splashes on the target I intended to hit. This little feat has all sorts of perks..but it tends to take some time to figure out when to use one.
Seeker95 03-08-06, 05:39 PM	Ignore Derwood's comments if you are talking about potions. What he has described would make perfectly suitable wondrous items.
Tyrasius 03-08-06, 06:51 PM	Yep. I keep a vial of acid-splash around for those hard to reach places that need to be melted through. Some of the spells seem to work as a thrown weapon while in a vial, if you use the properly. For instance, I can't use a flaming sphere in a vial since it has to be controlled afterwards. Although I can use ray of enfeeblement and have it work so long as it splashes on the target I intended to hit. This little feat has all sorts of perks..but it tends to take some time to figure out when to use one. I think you have to drink a potion for it to work. what your describing sounds alot like wondrous items, like Seeker95 said. To answer your question, I'd say yes you can. Another thing though and this I'm not sure of. Since alot of magic items don't do exactly what the spell does (just look at that crab thing from 3.0) it might be possible to make a potion of fireball which causes blazing hot heat to burn through the imbiber. Or a potion of magic missle causing damage to the drinker. However I'm probably incorrect about this part of my post
Arlechino 03-08-06, 06:59 PM	From your original post, it's clear you intend to hurt the drinker of the potion. I think you could definitely do this. There are two caveats, however: 1) Potions are meant to be drunk in their pure form. It would be up to the DM to decide whether a shocking grasp potion would have any effect if someone ate soup that was laced with it. That said, there's no hard and fast rule about what's IN potions, so you might be able to make a "soup of electrocution" (Hmm.. electric eel soup?) and call it a potion. Although, potions have indefinite shelf lives, and I'd argue that such a soup would go bad as normal. 2. You can only make spells that target creatures into potions. So by the RAW, no potions of fireball and no potions of ray of enfeeblement (these have no target entry). Some generous DMs might allow the creation of potions from ray spells, though.
Kyuketsukiouji 03-08-06, 08:05 PM	Simple answer: Yes, as long as the spell you use meets the normal requirements for Brew Potion. This does limit the number of usable offensive spells, since most are area spells (including rays), and because the potion's drinker is both the caster and the target of the spells. So, no potions of Charm Person, unless you need to be your own best friend. But you do have so interesting possibilities, like Slow. And then there was that one time my party's rogue thought himself clever for stealing the evil cleric's stash of healing potions. I leave it to the readers to imagine exactly when we realised that those were potions he'd prepared for his vampire master. Inflict Serious Wounds potions, to be precise.
Wind of Darkness 03-08-06, 09:07 PM	By RAW, it works. I always joke about making a potion of magic missile because it's so absurd. I've yet to do it, though.
Realms of Chaos 03-08-06, 09:18 PM	Hey, inflict serious wounds has a spell level too high to be made into potion form. Was it some kind of magic item, did the cleric have an ability that allowed it past that restriction, or were you just using rule 0.
Nom 03-08-06, 10:22 PM	Hey, inflict serious wounds has a spell level too high to be made into potion form. Was it some kind of magic item, did the cleric have an ability that allowed it past that restriction, or were you just using rule 0.inflict serious wounds is Clr3. Potions can handle spells up to level 3. I don't see the problem?
Karrg 03-08-06, 10:28 PM	Magc of Ebberon has spellvials, which are very close to what your talking about. Making them is a class feature of a PrC, however. Karrg
Lemmose 03-09-06, 02:54 AM	grins evily I am glad I am not the only one to think this idea up. Let me give you a list of ideas (oh, and the best spells to do this with are Clerical spells in my opinion): Clerical Bane Cause Fear Command (I would say you have to choose the command when making it) Doom Inflict Light/Moderate/Serious Wounds Hold Person (perfect for assassinations) Shield Other (then attack the 'other' so that the drinker takes damage too) Bestow Curse Blindness/Deafness Contagion Wizard Daze Touch of Fatigue Sleep Disguise Self Cause Fear Daze Monster Tasha's Hideous Laughter Touch of Idiocy Blindness/Deafness Scare Alter Self (you like my 'pet' frog, formerly the caption of the guard) Deep Slumber Hold Person Rage Suggestion Gaseous Form ("By the Gods, the king just evaporated!") Slow
Purple Yin 03-09-06, 05:58 AM	yeah, there's a whole PrC about throwing spellvials at enemies. its a potion savant, or something. cant remember its name.
The WarOverlord 03-09-06, 07:08 AM	Is it possible to make a potion with a harmful effect (Ray of enfeeblement, contagion etc.) with the Brew Potion feat, thereby creating a kind of poison? Alchemical versions of spells or Spells held by a suspension type spell in a vial of fluid that activate when the potion bottle hits something or breaks, maybe. Imbue Spell Bomb enchantment level: wiz/sor 2, clr 3, bard 2 components: V, S,M = vial of fluid, Spell to be immediately cast on vial after casting time: 1 minute range: self duration: permanent until vial broken or hits something or is consumed target: as Gernade Throwing Weapon once enchanted This spell will put any offensive or defensive spell of up to 3 level into vial of fluid, usually water which can either be consumed for spell effect to take effect or, in the case of offensive spells, be thrown and will trigger on impact of vial on target for targeted attacks or breakage/hitting floor or target for area effects merely touching vial doesn't activate the Spell within thow crushing it in hands or against body will as will any physical or magic combat damage that breaks the vial while in holders possesion.