Broken Bag of Holding [Archive] - Wizards Community

Broken Bag of Holding [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Seeker95
09-22-04, 04:04 PM This idea was sparked by GoldKatana's quest for information regarding climbing out of a bag of holding.
If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever.
Rather than destroyed, or forever gone, what if all those items that are "lost" are still out there (including any number of bodies that suffocated) on whatever extra-dimensional space the bag was accessing?

I see a couple of directions this could go (making this post appropriate for any number of boards, but I'll keep it here):

There are bounty hunters whose job is to retrieve items lost in the process of misusing bags of holding, handy haversacks and portable holes. To achieve their objectives, these bounty hunters / private investigators, lost property acquisition experts have devloped a number of magic items.

Locator of lost objects
This crystal ball is linked to the extraplanar space that is normally accessed by various holding objects (whether bags, holes or haversacks). When the user focuses his attention on a well-known (or well-described,for most bounty hunters) object currently residing in this dimensional space, the crystal displays the object (along with any other objects that may be within 5' of the object -- "adjacent squares") and gives the user a clear picture of exactly "where" the object is.

Retriever of lost objects
This magic item appears in all other respects to be a bag of holding, and even functions as one in the hands of an uninformed user. However, in the hands of an experienced retriever, this bag can access objects placed in the extra-dimensional space of *other* bag/haversack/hole owners. If the retriever owner knows the exact location of a specific item, s/he can "acquire" the object through the retriever of lost objects. Often used to find objects lost through the misuse / destruction of these carrying aids, the retriever can also be used to liberate objects from otherwise perfectly functional bags, haversacks and holes.

Retrieving an object requires knowledge of the exact location of the object (as can be provided by a locater of lost objects) and a DC check as follows:
Unattended item lost via carrier aid destruction: DC20
Unattended item in an existing carrier aid: DC25
Attended item in an existing carrier aid: DC30

Using a locater of lost objects provides a +15 to the DC check.
Having previously held the lost object adds +10 to the DC check.
Having previously seen the lost object adds +5 to the DC check.

**************************************** ***
So... any price / construction mechanics suggestions for these two items?
Gold Katana
09-22-04, 04:20 PM Very interesting items. Perhaps my BBEG will acquire them. :D

One note, however, the BoH accesses a "non-dimensional" space. I've always imagined that akin to storing items in a space hiding behind a quark.
kSquared
09-22-04, 04:50 PM Neat idea, Seeker95!

Locate object seems like a good choice for the base spell for both items.

For the retriever of lost objects, what is the DC based on? Is it skill-based? An Intelligence check? Also, you may want to specify some kind of penalty if you try to enter someone else's dimensional space and fail to retrieve the object. Otherwise people will be taking 20 all day and grabbing whatever they find.
Seeker95
09-22-04, 05:27 PM For the DC, I had not intended it to be based on anything. It either works or it doesn't. However, the "taking 20" approach is something I had not intended.

Perhaps the check can be made but once per day per item, with no specific skill upon which it is based. I'll have to give this mechanic some additional thought... after dinner and our Wednesday night game.
kSquared
09-22-04, 05:35 PM Seeker, maybe I wasn't clear. If the DC is not tied to a check of some kind, then it's impossible to beat anything with a DC of 21 or higher unless you have modifiers, since you can't roll more than 20 on a d20. Also, if it's not tied to any skill or ability and it's just a straight d20, this means that everybody in the world is equally good at finding items using this device. A level 1 commoner has just as much a chance of rolling 20 as a level 40 epic wizard does, and hence both have the same chance of finding an item this way.

I'd reconsider making this an Intelligence check or something; that is, roll d20 + Int bonus to see if you beat the DC. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, though. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
smrtgmp
09-22-04, 06:04 PM I was wondering about the type of check as well.

As for requirements:

I think scrying would be appropriate for the Locator of Lost Objects, given that it can cross planar boundaries. Maybe throw Locate Objects in there as well.

The closest spell I cant think of that would duplicate the effects your after is gate. Given the limited applications of the item (i.e. no gating in of deific outsiders, etc.) I dont think it would be inappropriate to give a price reduction. I would still make this a fairly pricy item, however, given that it is pretty powerful. I'm sure whatever price you come up with will be more than fair. Another spell that could work in leu of gate would be Instant Summons.

Very cool items, BTW :ayyyy!:
Seeker95
09-23-04, 09:47 AM [QUOTE=kSquared]If the DC is not tied to a check of some kind, then it's impossible to beat anything with a DC of 21 or higher unless you have modifiers, since you can't roll more than 20 on a d20.[quote]Exactly. Your average commoner is not going to be able to pick this up and find something any better than a 20th level wizard (scratch that -- reverse it!) But... the 20th level wizard is more likely to have access to some of the modifiers -- knowledge of the missing items, perhaps previous possession of the item, or even access to the locator of lost items.

That said, however, I think a few more skill-based modifiers might be in order: Using a locater of lost objects provides a +15 to the DC check.
Previously held the lost object adds +10 to the DC check.
Previously seen the lost object adds +5 to the DC check.
Knowledge: Planes (add half your modifier to the DC check).
Presence of previous owner adds +5 to the DC check.
For each week the item has been missing, add +1 to the DC (max 10)
I can definitely see this modifier list growing as people more creative than I come up with ideas.

And then there is the PrC (not yet created) that specializes in tracking across the planes. Ranger meets Planewalker.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Seeker95 09-22-04, 04:04 PM	This idea was sparked by GoldKatana's quest for information regarding climbing out of a bag of holding. If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever. Rather than destroyed, or forever gone, what if all those items that are "lost" are still out there (including any number of bodies that suffocated) on whatever extra-dimensional space the bag was accessing? I see a couple of directions this could go (making this post appropriate for any number of boards, but I'll keep it here): There are bounty hunters whose job is to retrieve items lost in the process of misusing bags of holding, handy haversacks and portable holes. To achieve their objectives, these bounty hunters / private investigators, lost property acquisition experts have devloped a number of magic items. Locator of lost objects This crystal ball is linked to the extraplanar space that is normally accessed by various holding objects (whether bags, holes or haversacks). When the user focuses his attention on a well-known (or well-described,for most bounty hunters) object currently residing in this dimensional space, the crystal displays the object (along with any other objects that may be within 5' of the object -- "adjacent squares") and gives the user a clear picture of exactly "where" the object is. Retriever of lost objects This magic item appears in all other respects to be a bag of holding, and even functions as one in the hands of an uninformed user. However, in the hands of an experienced retriever, this bag can access objects placed in the extra-dimensional space of other bag/haversack/hole owners. If the retriever owner knows the exact location of a specific item, s/he can "acquire" the object through the retriever of lost objects. Often used to find objects lost through the misuse / destruction of these carrying aids, the retriever can also be used to liberate objects from otherwise perfectly functional bags, haversacks and holes. Retrieving an object requires knowledge of the exact location of the object (as can be provided by a locater of lost objects) and a DC check as follows: Unattended item lost via carrier aid destruction: DC20 Unattended item in an existing carrier aid: DC25 Attended item in an existing carrier aid: DC30 Using a locater of lost objects provides a +15 to the DC check. Having previously held the lost object adds +10 to the DC check. Having previously seen the lost object adds +5 to the DC check. ************************************** * So... any price / construction mechanics suggestions for these two items?
Gold Katana 09-22-04, 04:20 PM	Very interesting items. Perhaps my BBEG will acquire them. :D One note, however, the BoH accesses a "non-dimensional" space. I've always imagined that akin to storing items in a space hiding behind a quark.
kSquared 09-22-04, 04:50 PM	Neat idea, Seeker95! Locate object seems like a good choice for the base spell for both items. For the retriever of lost objects, what is the DC based on? Is it skill-based? An Intelligence check? Also, you may want to specify some kind of penalty if you try to enter someone else's dimensional space and fail to retrieve the object. Otherwise people will be taking 20 all day and grabbing whatever they find.
Seeker95 09-22-04, 05:27 PM	For the DC, I had not intended it to be based on anything. It either works or it doesn't. However, the "taking 20" approach is something I had not intended. Perhaps the check can be made but once per day per item, with no specific skill upon which it is based. I'll have to give this mechanic some additional thought... after dinner and our Wednesday night game.
kSquared 09-22-04, 05:35 PM	Seeker, maybe I wasn't clear. If the DC is not tied to a check of some kind, then it's impossible to beat anything with a DC of 21 or higher unless you have modifiers, since you can't roll more than 20 on a d20. Also, if it's not tied to any skill or ability and it's just a straight d20, this means that everybody in the world is equally good at finding items using this device. A level 1 commoner has just as much a chance of rolling 20 as a level 40 epic wizard does, and hence both have the same chance of finding an item this way. I'd reconsider making this an Intelligence check or something; that is, roll d20 + Int bonus to see if you beat the DC. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, though. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
smrtgmp 09-22-04, 06:04 PM	I was wondering about the type of check as well. As for requirements: I think scrying would be appropriate for the Locator of Lost Objects, given that it can cross planar boundaries. Maybe throw Locate Objects in there as well. The closest spell I cant think of that would duplicate the effects your after is gate. Given the limited applications of the item (i.e. no gating in of deific outsiders, etc.) I dont think it would be inappropriate to give a price reduction. I would still make this a fairly pricy item, however, given that it is pretty powerful. I'm sure whatever price you come up with will be more than fair. Another spell that could work in leu of gate would be Instant Summons. Very cool items, BTW :ayyyy!:
Seeker95 09-23-04, 09:47 AM	[QUOTE=kSquared]If the DC is not tied to a check of some kind, then it's impossible to beat anything with a DC of 21 or higher unless you have modifiers, since you can't roll more than 20 on a d20.[quote]Exactly. Your average commoner is not going to be able to pick this up and find something any better than a 20th level wizard (scratch that -- reverse it!) But... the 20th level wizard is more likely to have access to some of the modifiers -- knowledge of the missing items, perhaps previous possession of the item, or even access to the locator of lost items. That said, however, I think a few more skill-based modifiers might be in order: Using a locater of lost objects provides a +15 to the DC check. Previously held the lost object adds +10 to the DC check. Previously seen the lost object adds +5 to the DC check. Knowledge: Planes (add half your modifier to the DC check). Presence of previous owner adds +5 to the DC check. For each week the item has been missing, add +1 to the DC (max 10) I can definitely see this modifier list growing as people more creative than I come up with ideas. And then there is the PrC (not yet created) that specializes in tracking across the planes. Ranger meets Planewalker.